Fire in Mount Vernon sparks tension between Mount Vernon, Yonkers fire unions

[x635 4,066]

MOUNT VERNON - Fighting fires has sparked some controversy between the Yonkers and Mount Vernon fire unions.

The Mount Vernon Fire Department called for mutual aid on Tuesday to help put out a house fire, but the head of the Yonkers fire union says it’s abusing the system.

http://westchester.news12.com/news/fire-in-mount-vernon-sparks-tension-between-mount-vernon-yonkers-fire-unions-1.7228815?fb_action_ids=10202202227955640&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B422451874556170%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

[alertjoe 23]

So whats new? This has been going on for years. Mount Vernon has had manpower problems since they did away with the Volunteers.

Now I'm not trying or going to make this a Career vs Volunteer issue, but obviously Mount Vernon will never hire enough Firefighters to do the job properly. It is total abuse to constantly call for Mutual Aid, for fires that should be handled by their own Department.

It's not the Departments fault but rather the City Government for trying to cut corners regarding staff. Maybe they should take a good hard look at Volunteers or Call Firefighters as the present system is flawed and in need of repair.

Pehaps a contract with a neighboring municipality for additional assistance would help.

Something need's to be done before some one is critically injured, be they Civillian or Firefighter....

[antiquefirelt 994]

Is this just poor news writing or is there actually an issue with the Mt. Vernon FF Union? Nothing in the article ays FMV's union disagrees? I can't imagine the FDMV Union not agreeing with the Yonker's Union President in saying they don't have enough staffing and their reliance on mutual aid is proof thereof? This isn't (or shouldn't be) a fight between the two unions, but in fact a fight between the Union's and the administration(s).

[PHIL78 129]

Mt.Vernons union president clearly stated on news 12 that they agree with Yonkers union that Mt Vernon abuses the mutual aid system regularly. He also said as long as neighboring depts continue to send units into Mt Vernon why would they hire?

[fire patrol nyc 153]

This issue is nothing new,FDMV is a good dept. it's members are second to none in doing the best with what they have.Unless the city administration addresses the situation and provides them with the manpower they need nothing will change.The city has always treated the fd as a stepchild.They are a front line service and need to be fully staffed....

[FirNaTine 370]

He also said as long as neighboring depts continue to send units into Mt Vernon why would they hire?

Spot on! This usually falls on deaf ears to though unfortunately.

[spike2231 38]

i can remember going to my vernon on mutual aid in the 80s with the tmfd and a volunteer driver and man power the only difference now is my vernon has no volunteers and now they do not let the volunteers come in to the city they still ask for mutual aid from as far away as white plains and fairview fire depts. they just abuse the career depts instead

[61MACKBR1 222]

With the current Mutual Aid Plan in place, there is really nothing much any specific department can do, other than request that they (the responding Mutual Aid Department) be placed at the bottom of the list, for response. All this would do, would be to have those departments at the top of the responding list, having to travel from greater distances, for any/all Mutual Aid needs. (Imagine if Yonkers and the other departments hadn't responded as part of the mutual aid agreement, that person may have died).

Sadly, politicians (like the Mayor of Mount Vernon) use the Mutual Aid agreement as a way to get out of budgeting for more manpower and apparatus. Taxpayers in Mount Vernon are basically caught between a rock and a hard place. On one side, they want their property and personal well being protected by the FDMV. On the other side, they don't want to press the Mount Vernon Mayor for the additional manpower/apparatus that the city needs to "Properly" protect the lives and property of the citizens of the City of Mount Vernon, in fear that their taxes would be raised to pay for this.

Again, I go back to the concept of having a County Run "Regionalized" Fire Service. But, the "Home Rule" currently in place in the State of New York, is a major stumbling block from allow this concept to move forward.

[LTNRFD 266]

Again, I go back to the concept of having a County Run "Regionalized" Fire Service. But, the "Home Rule" currently in place in the State of New York, is a major stumbling block from allow this concept to move forward.

Can you explain how a "county run ""regional"" fire service" would be any different for Mt Vernon?

Do you think that the powers to be in Mt Vernon would agree to it. Or any other dept for that matter. The manpower may increase for the area. This by eliminating duplicate administrative postions. I haven't seen any cost analysist as to who would be paying what? My costs in New Rochelle may go up and I may lose coverage due to the redistricting of companies.

Everyone that would be in the plan would have to come to the table with an equal share of the costs to receive the benefits. Due you really think Mt. Vernon would ante up more for a county system??

[JAD622 40]

The Taxpayers voted Davis back in, this is what you get.

[antiquefirelt 994]

With the current Mutual Aid Plan in place, there is really nothing much any specific department can do, other than request that they (the responding Mutual Aid Department) be placed at the bottom of the list, for response.

Is there a legal requirement for a FD to provide M/A? It appears that the admin of Mount Vernon have created a situation where it's no longer mutual, and therefore just aid. For many years in many places across the country, people have scrutinized outside aid, wondering if it was necessary their tax dollars paid for outside aid. In most cases, the FD providing aid can legitimately answer that there are times they recieve aid and even when it's not a 1 for 1 swap, when apparatus and manpower is needed, there's no other quick solution. When you have nothing to offer, it's hard to keep going back to the same well? I'm sure no one wants to see the people of Mt. Vernon suffer greater losses, but at somepoint those who provide aid will suffer losses back in there own community while out providing aid, by no fault of there own.

[x635 4,066]

With mutual aid being the norm for just about every department in the county even for the smallest fires, I agree there needs to be some consolidation in certain areas. HOWEVER, if Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, etc were to merge, I can see Mount Vernon using it as an excuse and not holding up their end of the bargain, and using it to mooch off others so they don't have to pay, stressing the other departments. .

.

Unfortunately, a lot of Mount Vernon's 70,000 residents are renters, and really don't care about the community. And nor do the slumlords that own a lot of the buildings that are affected by fire, if it burns down the landlords get insurance money and the tenants find someplace else. They really aren't affected by taxes. Mount Vernon has endless potential to improve itself, Fleetwood is probably the best example of what Mount Vernon can be. The problem is, to do business or development in Mount Vernon, a certain persons hands need to be fed a continuing under-the-table kickback. Mount Vernon has a prime location surrounded by wealthy and successful areas, and they're doing nothing with it.

As it is, the residents of Yonkers, New Rochelle, Pelham, Pelham Manor, Eastchester, Greenville, etc are paying for fire protection for the citizens of Mount Vernon. If there was an intense campaign to those citizens of the districts that provide mutual aid, I'm sure it would raise some eyebrows. But on the same token, how can a department ethically or morally refuse to send mutual aid? It may send a message, but at the same time it could cost a victim or firefighter their life.

Mount Vernon is like a roller coaster. Just as things crest the hill to get better, all of a sudden they go back downhill fast. I'm really starting to believe that nothing will ever change in Mount Vernon. I really can't foresee any type of permanent solution that will stick and work. Sad.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Fleetwood is probably the best example of what Mount Vernon can be. The problem is, to do business or development in Mount Vernon, a certain persons hands need to be fed a continuing under-the-table kickback. Mount Vernon has a prime location surrounded by wealthy and successful areas, and they're doing nothing with it.

Fleetwood is what all of Mt Vernon was! Prior to the mid 1960's it was a thriving community with tremendous shopping and high end stores. I know from my grandmother that the Vanderbilt's & the Roosevelt's both shopped in her salon.

MV was a prime location, till the wealth moved out.

[gamewell45 258]

With the current Mutual Aid Plan in place, there is really nothing much any specific department can do, other than request that they (the responding Mutual Aid Department) be placed at the bottom of the list, for response. All this would do, would be to have those departments at the top of the responding list, having to travel from greater distances, for any/all Mutual Aid needs. (Imagine if Yonkers and the other departments hadn't responded as part of the mutual aid agreement, that person may have died).

Sadly, politicians (like the Mayor of Mount Vernon) use the Mutual Aid agreement as a way to get out of budgeting for more manpower and apparatus. Taxpayers in Mount Vernon are basically caught between a rock and a hard place. On one side, they want their property and personal well being protected by the FDMV. On the other side, they don't want to press the Mount Vernon Mayor for the additional manpower/apparatus that the city needs to "Properly" protect the lives and property of the citizens of the City of Mount Vernon, in fear that their taxes would be raised to pay for this.

Again, I go back to the concept of having a County Run "Regionalized" Fire Service. But, the "Home Rule" currently in place in the State of New York, is a major stumbling block from allow this concept to move forward.

I think you hit it right on the head. You want services you have to pay for them; the politicians are worried about having to increase taxes which would be very unpopular with the residents and quite possibly cost them in any re-election bid. Since MVFD apparently does not call in volunteer companies they are stuck between a rock and a hard place and depend on neighboring career departments for mutual aid. Not sure what the answer is; every solution seems to have its down sides.

[Avon Rob 40]

If I recall correctly, the fire chief/commissioner usually fills out a list of desired engines & ladders, etc. that they wish on alarm assignments. I have buried somewhere a copy of the original mutual plan for Westchester County. I will post when I find it. I think part of the provisions was that you must offer to give mutual aid if requested in order to get mutual aid.

[antiquefirelt 994]

If I recall correctly, the fire chief/commissioner usually fills out a list of desired engines & ladders, etc. that they wish on alarm assignments. I have buried somewhere a copy of the original mutual plan for Westchester County. I will post when I find it. I think part of the provisions was that you must offer to give mutual aid if requested in order to get mutual aid.

At what point does the FD you'e requesting have an opportunity to see how they're being tasked? We ran into this a few years ago as mutual aid departments added our Tower to their alarms, but didn't move the engine they were already getting on the same alarm. This meant we needed to send two pieces with 10 personnel at once, when the daily staff was just six, nevermind any calls of our own. We had to decline offers for more than one apparatus in a single alarm so we could get personnel in to cover our own area and properly staff the second requested apparatus.

[firefighter-70 27]

Mt.Vernons union president clearly stated on news 12 that they agree with Yonkers union that Mt Vernon abuses the mutual aid system regularly. He also said as long as neighboring depts continue to send units into Mt Vernon why would they hire?

This is a fact! FDMV hired 8 Firefighters in 2013 for the fall Academy, 5 are through the Academy and on the line. 3 did not make it, is the city planning to hire 3 to replace the loss, NO!

In the past year 7 or 8 civilians died in fires within the city, I believe this exceeds the murder rate in Mt Vernon. What will the city do? Bets are nothing! Mutual Aid will cover its man power shortages! Mayor Davis thanks you.

[spike2231 38]

some of the depts giving aid to mt vernon are combination depts like pelham, pelham manor,eastchester and greenville ,fairview which are suplemented by volunteeers but donot let the volunteers go into towns or cities with carreer depts like yonkers, new rochelle,mt vernon years ago this was not the norm in yonkers for instance the first due dept was hastings on the east side and mt vernon with volunteers on board westside of town today that is not so probably 20+ years or so