City of Los Angeles Chooses KME

[x635 4,066]

From a KME press release

City of Los Angeles Chooses KME

Nesquehoning, PA –KME is pleased to announce the City of Los Angeles’ Fire Department has awarded KME, an order for fifteen (15) more custom pumpers. The award is part of a multi-year contract from which KME has already delivered almost three dozen engines.

The pumpers will be built on KME’s PredatorTM Severe ServiceTM chassis, designed for high volume fleets and will be similar to units previously delivered to the City in 2011 and 2013. Feat...ures include a 450hp engine, 1500gpm two-stage pump, 500/30 gallon water/foam tank, Class A foam system, and a 5 year bumper to bumper warranty. The body is custom designed for the LAFD to carry the ladders at a low enclosed height, enclosed suction hose storage, and compartmentation in the hosebed area designed for specialized equipment.

Long term purchase agreements like the one utilized by the City of Los Angeles offer a number of benefits including:
• Assurance of competitive pricing and audit accountability
• Established pricing guidelines for future purchases
• Minimized administrative costs and product price increases
• Minimized training, service and parts inventory expense
• Allowance for competitive bids at any time should the FD choose to do so

For more information, contact KME’s factory sales and service center located in Ontario, California. This operation offers a robust network of sales, parts and service support to the City with both mobile and service center support.

[x152 179]

Any welders looking to relocate to the beautiful Nesquehonig area, this is your chance.

[everybodygoes 331]

Any mechanics looking to relocate to sunny Kalifornia now is your chance! Or Maspeth Queens, pick your spot!

[pump305 53]

Sorry guys but... The KME's for LAFD and LaCo fire are doing pretty good.

[M' Ave 1,466]

The title for this topic is inaccurate. LAFD didn't "choose" anything. The low bidder was awarded a contract.

[x635 4,066]

The title for this topic is inaccurate. LAFD didn't "choose" anything. The low bidder was awarded a contract.

They chose. Trust me. LAFD is not going to do business with anyone who's not going to deliver a quality piece. With this contract, if they didn't like the product they have the option to go out to bid again. Both Seagrave and Pierce come in A LOT higher, because they know the departments that really want them will pay the price, so they bid high. And the city's been financially turbulent when this was awarded, so of course they want to get the best price for the best apparatus that will meet their needs.

Also, KME has a KME-owned factory sales and service center just outside LA, and they provide excellent service. They also did their homework, and looked closely at the over at the KME's of Los Angeles County. TLAFD is very specific in what they want, and KME fit the bill. They could have chose who they wanted, low bid or not.

LAFD Engine Company - all LAFD Engines are Triple Combination apparatus, meaning they can pump water, carry hose, and have a water tank. Commonly called, "triples" by firefighters, these powerful fire engines are the core of the city's fire defense system. LAFD engines are designed specifically for the diverse needs of the City of Los Angeles. They are housed in single engine fire stations, as well as at task force stations with companion truck companies. This example is a brand new 2010 KME, one of a series of new KME apparatus, designed and built exclusively for the LAFD. These KME triples are unlike any built for other agencies, including but not limited to the LAcFD. Special features include 4-wheel disc brakes, a brush box (for wildfire equipment) that is built in to the unit (rather than sitting on top, creating more drag and reducing fuel efficiency), and advanced lighting and monitor controls.

[16fire5 693]

These boards must be full of KME stockholders.

[FFBlaser 24]

They've had KME's for a few years now..........

[antiquefirelt 994]

So much variation in peoples opinions, but few have a true crystal ball. Specs can vary significantly place to place. A good manufacturer will build you a POS if you spec it and pay them for it. On the other hand, another builder not known for high quality can build a long last piece if it's specced right. I certainly wouldn't consider the success of KME in LA as proof they'll perform in NYC there's a world of difference in how and where their used. Now, comparing them to those KME's in Philly may be more accurate, but don't expect a lot of high praise from the guys that use the trucks in Philly.

Most municipalities end up with the low bid that meet the spec, I'm sure LA isn't any different. That appears to be how KME end up getting the FDNY contract? There's a lot more to customer satisfaction than just delivering a shiny truck. Service after the sale,and continued responsiveness to the customers needs by the local dealer can make or break a companies rep with a FD.

In KME's favor I'd say continued sales is quite a motivator to fix any issues and make good on the delivery, but the truth may not be known until a few years have passed. I'd be interested in hearing from any Boston guys on how their new KME's are, at least the street conditions are similar, but again the specs are likely extremely specific and considerably different between BFD, FDNY, LAFD and others. We can only hope for the best, not for KME's sake, but for those Brothers and citizens that'll be relying on those engines to put water on the fire.

Edited February 27, 2014 by antiquefirelt

[everybodygoes 331]

They chose. Trust me. LAFD is not going to do business with anyone who's not going to deliver a quality piece. With this contract, if they didn't like the product they have the option to go out to bid again. Both Seagrave and Pierce come in A LOT higher, because they know the departments that really want them will pay the price, so they bid high. And the city's been financially turbulent when this was awarded, so of course they want to get the best price for the best apparatus that will meet their needs.

Also, KME has a KME-owned factory sales and service center just outside LA, and they provide excellent service. They also did their homework, and looked closely at the over at the KME's of Los Angeles County. TLAFD is very specific in what they want, and KME fit the bill. They could have chose who they wanted, low bid or not.

How would you know? When was the last time you even rode in any apparatus? Why do you think they have a service center? I bet you it was because it was a requirement of the deal, to fix the problems.

[x635 4,066]

How would you know? When was the last time you even rode in any apparatus? Why do you think they have a service center? I bet you it was because it was a requirement of the deal, to fix the problems.

They have a comprehensive sales and service center because KME is the dealer for the entire state of California, southern Nevada, and Arizona. They have at least 300 KME's in service in the LA area alone, with more to come. It has been open for over 14 years now. The mobile service units are also based out of this facility. A facility like this is not uncommon, dealers of various fire apparatus brands around the country have service centers, and in a lot of cases, are required to in order to be a dealer.

More: http://fire.kovatch.com/support/dealer-locator/kme-california-branch

[pump305 53]

LAFD chose KME for a few reasons. The main reason low bid and like FDNY KME will build to LAFD specs. Seagrave would like the contract but complains how LAFD and FDNY are to picky with what they spec. Now for those who will say otherwise, this came from a sales rep at Seagrave in LA. As for the amount of KME's in service in the LA and surrounding areas. Its more in the neighborhood of 400. Remember, LaCo Fire has over 200 alone. The service center was opened after LaCo told KME, if you want to keep us you need to build a service center here with the amount of issues we have with your'e product. Also, a LaCo employee retired and went to work for KME. So the sales began. Even though LaCo is satisfied with KME they are still having issues with new deliveries. Such as.. rear ends dog leg to the right or left, wiring to name a few. But then again, i'm sure any builder will have the same issues. With the new NFPA requirements that includes much more electronics you are going to have new and comprehensive problems. Bottom line, as long as the rig performs and everyone goes home. As for Boston,Philly,LAFD, LaCo, Maui and FDNY low bid long waranty with a multi year contact for add ons. Or, a dept could be like Orlando FL and have the union have in its contract that the city will only purshase Sutphens. No bidding at all.

[Bnechis 3,961]

How would you know? When was the last time you even rode in any apparatus? Why do you think they have a service center? I bet you it was because it was a requirement of the deal, to fix the problems.

Maybe because they saw that at least 3 Seagrave dealers have gone bankrupt trying to take care of the FDNY warranty work. With such big orders and that much warranty work, it maybe cheaper to have a manufacturers service center.

[everybodygoes 331]

No idea what you even just said, but I will guess. Our warranty work goes to NJ, to Seagrave directly. Our mechanics will fix small things in quarters, but like ladder 107 blowing the entire air compressor all over the street in front of quarters, that gets done by them. Small dealers never serviced the City of NY.

[x635 4,066]

No idea what you even just said, but I will guess. Our warranty work goes to NJ, to Seagrave directly. Our mechanics will fix small things in quarters, but like ladder 107 blowing the entire air compressor all over the street in front of quarters, that gets done by them. Small dealers never serviced the City of NY.

Campbell Supply (an independent dealership) used to be the Seagrave dealer for FDNY, until they were offered an ALF dealership that came with a lucrative high volume Freightliner dealership. Several years ago when ALF started failing, they became a Crimson/Spartan ERV dealer, and was recently awarded Spartan ERV dealership of the year. They also were losing money doing FDNY warranty work and Seagrave wasn't holding their end of the bargain financially.

No dealer wanted to take on the volume of work that a Seagrave-FDNY contract would be, so Seagrave was forced to open their own service facility in East Brunswick, NJ. A few years ago, this facility made the news when FDNY was having issues and it was taking forever to turn around warranty work and to repair problems on brand new trucks. Some apparatus sat there for months, while 15 year old spares were being used for weeks at a time. Two of the new at the time rigs caught fire due to mechanical issues. It got so bad that FDNY re-bid a contract for Tower Ladders, and threatened not to buy any more Seagraves due to the shoddy workmanship at the time. Seagrave claimed a lot of things, including the lack of qualified technicians.

And during this time, other departments that were interested in purchasing Seagraves in the NJ couldn't even get a salesperson to come meet with them.

Nowadays, Seagrave is mostly into building high-end, handcrafted, and rugged rigs for individual departments, as well as selling proprietary products, such as the Aerialscope II. They don't bid as competitively anymore, especially with large contracts.They bid at what the apparatus is actually worth, knowing that departments that want Seagrave will get Seagrave (FDNY up until recent years), and have dealers that will support them. Hudson Valley Fire Equipment is the Hudson Valley dealer for Seagrave. Santo Curro. the President of the company, personally spends hours upon hours with the client and engineers at Seagrave to design a custom rig that will fit the department well, and he backs it with 24/7 service and support. The proof of their success is the orders are coming in and you'll start to see more Seagrave's in the Hudson Valley over the next several years.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Everyone likes to throw "low bid" around but its clearly the lowest bid that meets the minimum specification otherwise if it really was "low bid" FDNY rigs would be this:

[mfc2257 464]

Everyone likes to throw "low bid" around but its clearly the lowest bid that meets the minimum specification otherwise if it really was "low bid" FDNY rigs would be this:

P9020070.jpg

And.... Price coupled with the fact that just about anything on that rig (minus the pump and plumbing) can be fixed by a diesel mechanic at the local International dealer make commercially spec'd rigs attractive to departments that don't have the time/money to deal with custom fire apparatus drama. I'm not a huge fan of riding on a commercial chassis rig but you can't argue with their reliability.

[Bnechis 3,961]

And.... Price coupled with the fact that just about anything on that rig (minus the pump and plumbing) can be fixed by a diesel mechanic at the local International dealer make commercially spec'd rigs attractive to departments that don't have the time/money to deal with custom fire apparatus drama. I'm not a huge fan of riding on a commercial chassis rig but you can't argue with their reliability.

There reliability is not tested in a comparable setting. 300 calls per year vs running 24/7.

& the delivery trucks in NYC that use them have a life of 3-5 years (according to the biggest dealer in the Bronx as they have 100's of 2009's for sale).

[firebuff88 4]

LAFD chose KME for a few reasons. The main reason low bid and like FDNY KME will build to LAFD specs. Seagrave would like the contract but complains how LAFD and FDNY are to picky with what they spec. Now for those who will say otherwise, this came from a sales rep at Seagrave in LA. As for the amount of KME's in service in the LA and surrounding areas. Its more in the neighborhood of 400. Remember, LaCo Fire has over 200 alone. The service center was opened after LaCo told KME, if you want to keep us you need to build a service center here with the amount of issues we have with your'e product. Also, a LaCo employee retired and went to work for KME. So the sales began. Even though LaCo is satisfied with KME they are still having issues with new deliveries. Such as.. rear ends dog leg to the right or left, wiring to name a few. But then again, i'm sure any builder will have the same issues. With the new NFPA requirements that includes much more electronics you are going to have new and comprehensive problems. Bottom line, as long as the rig performs and everyone goes home. As for Boston,Philly,LAFD, LaCo, Maui and FDNY low bid long waranty with a multi year contact for add ons. Or, a dept could be like Orlando FL and have the union have in its contract that the city will only purshase Sutphens. No bidding at all.

That is very interesting info about Seagrave's in the LA area. If you notice, Seagrave lately tends to sell mostly repeat loyal customers (Burbank, Pasadena). Over time though, some loyal Seagrave customers have gone to different brands.

As for LAFD, I'm sure they will keep buying KME for the forseeable future. Since Seagrave is picky, ALF/LTI going out of business and some prior issues with Pierce, the field has been narrowed.

I'm not a big KME fan but as the saying goes, lowest responsible bid that meets the requirements will get the contract.

[Pagers 197]

Also try running a four door commercial rig in the city.......

[mfc2257 464]

There reliability is not tested in a comparable setting. 300 calls per year vs running 24/7.

& the delivery trucks in NYC that use them have a life of 3-5 years (according to the biggest dealer in the Bronx as they have 100's of 2009's for sale).

No doubt.. I think I was misunderstood... I'm not advocating for a city department to use a commercial cabbed rig... rather that what is attractive to other departments (the ones not running 24/7) is that they are fixable anywhere. Where the hell do you get a Pierce Quantum fixed in Harlan Kentucky?