Probe Into Deadly Carbon Monoxide Leak at Long Island Mall Begins

[x635 4,066]

Interesting MCI.

One person was killed and more than two dozen others were sickened by a carbon monoxide leak at the Walt Whitman Shops in Huntington Station

Read the article at: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/One-Killed-Carbon-Monoxide-Leak-Long-Island-Mall-Begins--246762291.html

[huzzie59 75]

How many EMS crews carry gas detection equipment?

[dwcfireman 656]

Are service businesses required to have CO detection and alarm systems to alert everybody inside (i.e. the same way a fire detection system alerts everyone to evacuate)? Seems like it's a good idea to prevent an incident like this one from happening. Does anyone have any light to shed on this?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Are service businesses required to have CO detection and alarm systems to alert everybody inside (i.e. the same way a fire detection system alerts everyone to evacuate)? Seems like it's a good idea to prevent an incident like this one from happening. Does anyone have any light to shed on this?

Not required by NYS code

[Fireman488 57]

How many EMS crews carry gas detection equipment?

We carry C/O meters on our EMS jump bags. They are worth their weight in gold!!!

[dwcfireman 656]

Not required by NYS code

Well, I guess we can only hope that this opens the eyes of some of our legislators.

[v85 212]

What were the PPM levels of the CO leak? Was the deceased an employee? I find it hard to imagine that a shopper would be exposed to CO in a store environment, which is considerably more open than a home, at sufficient duration and level to cause death.

Our EMS agency just started to carry CO monitors with us as well

[Bnechis 3,961]

Well, I guess we can only hope that this opens the eyes of some of our legislators.

The legislators have nothing to due with the code. Its on the administration side, done by the State Codes Council the International Codes Council and the Gov.

Not likely that one incident will change anything

[Ga-Lin 86]

How many EMS crews carry gas detection equipment?

I don't know of any agency that only runs EMS and is not assoc. with a fire dept that carries gas meters.

[dwcfireman 656]

Not likely that one incident will change anything

I'm not going to argue with you on this one, but sometimes a single incident is all it takes. I doubt anything will happen out of this, but it's nice to dream that someone, somewhere, already in NYS government would pull the trigger and get something rolling to prevent this from happening again.

Flip side, training in this situation would evolve a better outcome when this happens in the future. The first arriving EMS crew should have the training to recognize the issue at hand. I'm not saying that they should know for sure with one look that it's definitely a CO call or something else, but at least recognize that something beyond the scope of the initial call is going on. With that said, it would be cool to see some of this training for the public in general. I mean, if a few people understood the subtle clues of CO poisoning, and then all of a sudden 20 people in a restaurant get sick, then someone can stand up and say, "Let's go outside." I know this is far outside the box, and in a 'perfect world,' but it would be nice if it could all work out.

How many EMS crews carry gas detection equipment?

Every agency I have served with has always had a CO detector wither attached to the Officer/Senior FF, EMT, or EMS bag. It has never made a difference for me or for any of the crews I've worked with, but the detector has its use. Maybe one day it will save my life.

[v85 212]

Our agency does. Although 2/3rds or our EMS line officers are past fire chiefs

[Ga-Lin 86]

Our agency does. Although 2/3rds or our EMS line officers are past fire chiefs

Atmospheric meters or blood gas meters

[v85 212]

Both now. We have an atmospheric meter and the RAD-57s

[ac316scu 31]

What were the PPM levels of the CO leak? Was the deceased an employee? I find it hard to imagine that a shopper would be exposed to CO in a store environment, which is considerably more open than a home, at sufficient duration and level to cause death.

Our EMS agency just started to carry CO monitors with us as well

I believe the deceased was the manager of the restaurant. The situation reminds me of the CO2 leak in an Arizona McDonalds a few years ago... http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/CO2-leak-sparks-evacuation-at-Phoenix-McDonalds-122939268.html

[Ga-Lin 86]

Both now. We have an atmospheric meter and the RAD-57s

That's great. The next question whould have to be, do you have SCBA gear, and is everone trained in its use?

[v85 212]

No, the meters are pretty much for situations where we get the call as a "general illness" and find the whole family is sick and things like that. The protocol is pretty much if the meters go off, rapid evacuation/extrication and call for FD

[EMT111 149]

No, the meters are pretty much for situations where we get the call as a "general illness" and find the whole family is sick and things like that. The protocol is pretty much if the meters go off, rapid evacuation/extrication and call for FD

To be fair, it's not actually a meter. They're just detectors that have an on/off switch and beep if they detect CO and the speed of the beeps tells you how dangerous the CO levels are (sort of dangerous, dangerous, and GET OUT), but it doesn't tell you what the actual ppm are or anything.

[x635 4,066]

I'm not going to argue with you on this one, but sometimes a single incident is all it takes. I doubt anything will happen out of this, but it's nice to dream that someone, somewhere, already in NYS government would pull the trigger and get something rolling to prevent this from happening again.

I agree. I don't understand why the mall WOULDN'T install CO Detectors on their own. Now, they're probably going to be the subject of many multi-million dollar lawsuits, instead of installing comparatively inexpensive CO detectors which may have prevented this situation altogether. I see this incident changing the game.

Also, can't local municipal code require CO Detectors as well?

[boca1day 2]

The restaurant where this incident occurred is not inside the Walt Whitman mall. It is located in a separate building adjacent to it with no direct access to the mall. In fact, the mall was open during the incident.

Seth, I read that a local senator introduced a bill yesterday requiring mandatory installation of CO detectors in commercial establishments . Also, the CEO of Legal Seaford stated he will install CO detectors in all his restaurants. We will see.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Also, can't local municipal code require CO Detectors as well?

Locals can only require more restrictive items if approved by the states code council. They generally are reluctant to give them, because if we have not required it for everyone, what makes you so special?

[dwcfireman 656]

Locals can only require more restrictive items if approved by the states code council. They generally are reluctant to give them, because if we have not required it for everyone, what makes you so special?

This sounds fairly reciprocal to the trickle down effect of our government, where things can only get more restrictive as you cascade down from federal to state to county to local government. Are you able to expand on this a bit? I'm getting curious about this, yet I feel confused that a local government would have to 'ask for permission' from a higher entity to gain more restrictions/impose new regulations.

((I apologize to everyone in advance for taking this off topic, but I feel it's pertinent to the situation if any laws or regulations could prevent a future mass CO incident))

[Bnechis 3,961]

This sounds fairly reciprocal to the trickle down effect of our government, where things can only get more restrictive as you cascade down from federal to state to county to local government. Are you able to expand on this a bit? I'm getting curious about this, yet I feel confused that a local government would have to 'ask for permission' from a higher entity to gain more restrictions/impose new regulations.

((I apologize to everyone in advance for taking this off topic, but I feel it's pertinent to the situation if any laws or regulations could prevent a future mass CO incident))

NY states code is referred to as the "Uniformed Fire & Building Code" because it is to be the same everywhere in the state. This goes back to the Stouffers fire in Harrison 35 years ago. When it was built each city/town in the state could have its own code. White Plains had a more restrictive code that included sprinklers. Stouffers in a move to save money moved their hotel a couple hundred feet east, into the Town of Harrison which had no sprinkler requirement. After the deadly fire their the state implemented the state code, so the requirements are the same everywhere.

[antiquefirelt 994]

NY states code is referred to as the "Uniformed Fire & Building Code" because it is to be the same everywhere in the state. This goes back to the Stouffers fire in Harrison 35 years ago. When it was built each city/town in the state could have its own code. White Plains had a more restrictive code that included sprinklers. Stouffers in a move to save money moved their hotel a couple hundred feet east, into the Town of Harrison which had no sprinkler requirement. After the deadly fire their the state implemented the state code, so the requirements are the same everywhere.

Sadly this type of legislation can work against fire safety as well (as BNECHIS noted above in post #20). In many states this type of law prevents local officials from passing sprinkler ordinances when the state refuses to adopt NPFA 101 in it's entirety or other codes that require sprinklers in all one and two family dwellings. Builders and real estate people love it because the code is the code from town to town, city to city, you don't have to find out what the local rules are that affect the price of doing business. Communities love it because it prevents their neighbor from becoming more attractive to business/growth when their own rules are stricter than those nearby.

Edited February 26, 2014 by antiquefirelt

[dwcfireman 656]

NY states code is referred to as the "Uniformed Fire & Building Code" because it is to be the same everywhere in the state. This goes back to the Stouffers fire in Harrison 35 years ago. When it was built each city/town in the state could have its own code. White Plains had a more restrictive code that included sprinklers. Stouffers in a move to save money moved their hotel a couple hundred feet east, into the Town of Harrison which had no sprinkler requirement. After the deadly fire their the state implemented the state code, so the requirements are the same everywhere.

Thanks the info. Makes more sense now.