Anyone have experience fighting NYC traffic tickets?

[Monty 35]

So, yesterday I went with the family in to New York. I had a green light and turned off Broadway on to 84th. Half way down the block a patrol car appeared with its lights on. He said I blew the red light when I was in the median. I ended up with a 1110A - failure to obey a traffic control device.

Looking in to it, I found this article from the NY Times:

Under New York State and City traffic law, a crossing at a divided highway is considered one intersection if the median is less than 30 feet wide. Crossings with a median strip 30 feet wide or more are considered two intersections, and these medians should have their own signals requiring a stop on red if making a left turn.

The median dividing Broadway is generally about 20 feet wide, said Scott Gastel, a spokesman for the city’s Department of Transportation, adding that, in the absence of any contrary signals, left turns at those intersections are permitted if it is safe. But there are exceptions. At some of the narrower medians, the Transportation Department places “Stop Here on Red” signs. Where there is such a traffic control sign covering the median itself, the driver must wait for a green light before completing the turn.

Now, before this, I'm not sure on a wide median I would know to wait for the cross street but in this case I didn't need to. I even looked at google maps and it doesn't show any sign of markings or signs.

I'm thinking of pleading non-guilty but have no experience with the process in NYC. Any thoughts?

[everybodygoes 331]

Your explanation makes no sense. Can you explain what you did in better detail? Whole thing should have been squashed right there. I know they have a lot of action doing this in the 20. All along bway and west end. And you can win traffic court especially against regular patrol. Against highway no chance.

[Monty 35]

I was heading South on Broadway, with a green light, I turned left and pulled in to the median to turn on to 84th St.

Traffic was heading north so I waited about 20 seconds for the two lanes to be clear. I then crossed the northbound lanes onto 84th street.

The light for Broadway was still green, the light for 84th was red.

The P.O. said I went through the red light at the median. Its not a great image but it might help http://binged.it/1ga88UF

From what I've seen the light for the cross street only applies if the median is greater than 30 ft wide - I believe the median here was only about 20 ft wide - so the light for 84th is irrelevant.

I've since found this http://www.wnyc.org/story/left-turn-mystery-solved/ - I believe I was completly in the right but doesn't everyone say that .

I'm thinking it is worth pleading non-guilty and see if I can get it dismissed. I don't think it can be any worse than pleading guilty other than the time taken in court / TVB. I suppose I could just spend the bucks on a lawyer but I hate to think how much that is and whether they have that much better odds.

[everybodygoes 331]

Well TVB is heard by an administrative law judge. If you have the correct info, and can substantiate it with the information at hand you will win. Although I am sure they write that summons quite often. The only issue is that the pedestrian traffic crossing 84th st is being given the walk sign, so in essence your traveling from west to east could in turn create a hazard for both pedestrians since your biggest fear is being struck by another car which could in turn cause you to accelerate hitting the moron on the cell phone.

[Steve 78]

Based on the fact that you did not cross a crosswalk or stopline on W84 St. you may be able to beat this summons.

A big issue with a red light summons is- was your vehicle before the crosswalk or stopline prior to the light turning red.

A crosswalk or stop line is not present at the median.

Good Luck.

[10512 214]

First off, find out how wide the median is.

You posted that you believe the median is only about 20 feet.

If you go into court and tell the hearing officer you "think" or "believe" the median is about 20 feet, you may lose.

If you can measure it, or look up somewhere to find out exactly how wide it is, you can now tell the hearing officer exactly how wide it is. You then have a much better chance of winning. In the street view, I know that it looks less than 30 feet, but you have to convince a hearing officer, if he hears exactly how wide it is, it just sounds better.

"Thinking" or "Believing" something in court is not going to win it for you.

The 2nd thing you have to do is see if there is a "stop here on red" sign at that location.

Looking at Google street view is not going to do it. That image might be two years old.

Take several wide angle photos of the intersection with identifiable landmarks, such as a street sign and numbers on the buildings, the ascending/descending numbers will show which way is northbound/southbound.

These cops may be well aware of the law and use that specific intersection every day because it has a sign. If you are thinking of fighting this, you have to eliminate that possibilty.

If you can answer those two questions to your favor, and you do not mind going to Manhattan for the hearing, go for it.

Edited February 17, 2014 by 10512

[Pagers 197]

I have advice.......Just pay the ticket, it's one of the cheapest tickets. It's probably like a 25-50 dollar ticket plus whatever the court fee is.

[newsbuff 286]

I have advice.......Just pay the ticket, it's one of the cheapest tickets. It's probably like a 25-50 dollar ticket plus whatever the court fee is.

You should do your research first before offering advice. This is a moving violation, which means points. Points make insurance go up. And no ticket in NYC is $25...ever. The court fee might be $25.

From the internet, "This is a "Failure to obey a traffic control device" worth 2 points in NYS and is usually fined around Min $100 to Max $260. There might be an additional surcharge depending on the location."

Edited February 19, 2014 by newsbuff

[Stepjam 118]

1. Plead gulty.

2. Pay the fine.

3. Get a receipt.

4. Hold on to the receipt forever.

[Monty 35]

Thanks for the useful advice. I have to go to the Bronx soon, so I'll plan on continuing south with my camera. If it turns out that the intersection is the way I think it is, I'll document it with the camera and use that to help me fight my case.

First off, find out how wide the median is.

You posted that you believe the median is only about 20 feet.

If you go into court and tell the hearing officer you "think" or "believe" the median is about 20 feet, you may lose.

If you can measure it, or look up somewhere to find out exactly how wide it is, you can now tell the hearing officer exactly how wide it is. You then have a much better chance of winning. In the street view, I know that it looks less than 30 feet, but you have to convince a hearing officer, if he hears exactly how wide it is, it just sounds better.

"Thinking" or "Believing" something in court is not going to win it for you.

If you can answer those two questions to your favor, and you do not mind going to Manhattan for the hearing, go for it.

[newsbuff 286]

Thanks for the useful advice. I have to go to the Bronx soon, so I'll plan on continuing south with my camera. If it turns out that the intersection is the way I think it is, I'll document it with the camera and use that to help me fight my case.

Take A LOT of pictures. Every direction, tape measures, etc.

[Monty 35]

So, to follow up on this. I went to the DMV today, had a bunch of photos, extract of the V&T law, some news articles. Judge heard the PO's testimony and dismissed the summons without me saying anything!

I did upset the judge a bit afterwards as the PO was clueless as to why the ticket was dismissed and I tried to explain my understanding of the situation.

[210 91]

So, to follow up on this. I went to the DMV today, had a bunch of photos, extract of the V&T law, some news articles. Judge heard the PO's testimony and dismissed the summons without me saying anything!

I did upset the judge a bit afterwards as the PO was clueless as to why the ticket was dismissed and I tried to explain my understanding of the situation.

Yes, I would say once it was dismissed it's probably a good idea to pack up your stuff and get the hell out of Dodge. Lol.

[SECTMB 612]

1. Plead gulty.

2. Pay the fine.

3. Get a receipt.

4. Hold on to the receipt forever.

Good advice. He gave you a break by citing failure to obey a traffic control device rather than running a red light. What is worth more, your lost time or the money to pay the fine?

[Monty 35]

Good advice. He gave you a break by citing failure to obey a traffic control device rather than running a red light. What is worth more, your lost time or the money to pay the fine?

Problem was - I didn't run the red light. The Judge was smart enough to realize this. She questioned the PO after his statement to confirm that I was turning left and had a green light. When he said yes - she dismissed the case (on lack of evidence or something similar to that).

I am very happy that it was dismissed even with my time spent preparing for it and fighting it.

However, I was pissed that I got written the ticket in the first place for something I didn't do - but I'm big enough to get over that, eventually

[SECTMB 612]

Problem was - I didn't run the red light. The Judge was smart enough to realize this. She questioned the PO after his statement to confirm that I was turning left and had a green light. When he said yes - she dismissed the case (on lack of evidence or something similar to that).

I am very happy that it was dismissed even with my time spent preparing for it and fighting it.

However, I was pissed that I got written the ticket in the first place for something I didn't do - but I'm big enough to get over that, eventually

Good outcome, never lose the paperwork.

[Dinosaur 844]

Thanks for the useful advice. I have to go to the Bronx soon, so I'll plan on continuing south with my camera. If it turns out that the intersection is the way I think it is, I'll document it with the camera and use that to help me fight my case.

Make sure you park legally. A parking ticket in Manhattan is as much (or more) as a moving violation!

[10512 214]

He gave you a break by citing failure to obey a traffic control device rather than running a red light.

It is the same thing. In the statute, it is not called a 'red light', it is called a "traffic control device".

Edited May 10, 2014 by 10512

[velcroMedic1987 330]

It is the same thing. In the statute, it is not called a 'red light', it is called a "traffic control device".

No. A red light is a 3 point violation of section 1111. Disobeying a traffic control device may include a red light but it also includes all manner of traffic control devices (signs, painted markings, etc.) and is a two point violation.

[lad45der 78]

On a Sunday morning 3 years ago I took my then three year old in to watch the boat race on the Hudson River.

Apparently I thought I might have parked in Obama's parking spot. Morris Street or ave??? it's in the financial district by wall st.

I read the sign which read anything from no breathing to no standing I even asked a passing NYPD officer if I could park there with the signs being so confusing . The officer reads the sign and says I should be good??.

Come back from the race now this is a Sunday morning in the financial district. Well there's the orange envelope on the windshield.

I open the ticket and I'm looking around thinking ok where's the firemen this is a joke right! I got a $250.00 parking ticket!.

I took pictures of the sign I remembered the NYPD officers shield number wrote that down so I didn't forget.

I contested the ticket in the Bronx parking court.

The judge looks at the pictures of my truck in relation to the pole with a hundred signs on it, and says to me he can't never make sense of the signs so he reduced the ticket to just $90 which is steep but better than $250.

Like the other posters said bring those pictures in with the facts and a good chance you will get off or the ticket reduced.