Fire Department Parades: Friend Or Foe?

[Westchester 49]

Well here goes! The thread I'm starting could be positive or negitive.

Parades are important social function to all Emergency Services, not only showing off equipment and members, but also to meet other departments, talk old school stories, and be with friends and family. Now the bad. Paid or Volunteer it is always hard to get numbers in line to march never mind the cost of a band to lead your department with ony 10 in line, and of course there is food and drinks to be provided. And with any combination of adult beverages ( at a bar or brought in a cooler ) the beer muscles flex and the load mouths come out. In other threads in this forum the ex-brewster fire chief has been talked about. First no Paid Firefighter should ever bad mouth Volunteer Firefighters at after parade gatherings with alcohol. I've marched in New Yorks St. Patricks Day Parades ( and I know almost eveyone has marched or hung out ) I've been and seen some nasty fights either verbal or physical, and I've been to White Plains St. Patricks Day Parade ( nobody Paid or Volly ) can say anything, talk about drinking. So the question out there is what to do about Parades, should it be a dry parade or drink in uniform so we can make our departments look like crap when we get into a problem. Never mind Lake George for the Hudson Valley Parade! Duffys Bar is the bar to end all bars for firemen/firewomen talk about fun and some good fights. Well lets see what you think !

Parades Good or Bad?

Drinking at Patades, Yes or No?

And is it worth for a department to pay to go to a parade with a hand full of members?

Let the debate begin.

[10512 214]

Good or bad?

Drinking: Yes or no?

It really does not matter what people think the answer is. There are two "new" problems to consider.

The first problem has been addressed in other threads. A few years ago, what happened at the parade, would stay at the parade. But, as other threads show, nowadays people feelings get hurt and they complain. Whatever happened to being an adult about it. It seems that train left the station a while ago.

The second problem, which I have not seen a thread on, but I am sure there will be one soon enough, deals with what happens when someone's antics are caught on tape or confessed on social media? I am sure it has happened already, but if one of those incidents ends up with a bit of airplay on Youtube, you can bet the bosses and Insurers will have something to say. It is only a matter of time.

If some department gets embarrassed, or worse, once or twice, you may see different attitudes and rules towards alcohol.

Edited January 18, 2014 by 10512

[ks1980 36]

I will keep my reasponse short, so not to open Pandoras box.

Overall parades are good for the kids and public, and post parade activities can prove great for a single guy or somebody whose wife is not in town... But parades have the possibility of a good social event with good public relations.

Drinking at parades? Sure why the hell not as long as we wear out big boy pants, and are smart about it. Not for nothing but, march in NYC in uniform and tell me you don't drink after! Or before for that matter.

But what ever you do, don't get in any pictures that will screw you.

[STAT213 332]

I'm all for a good parade. I care about two things when it comes to them.

1) Behave like a professional. Don't do anything to embarrass the uniform you are wearing.

2) Ensure that your town/district has proper coverage. Parade in your reserve piece or a non specialty piece. I. E. don't take your only aerial or heavy rescue two counties away leaving your constituents without coverage that they have paid for and expect. Same goes for manpower.

Other than that, have at it!

[thebreeze 194]

Personally I feel that in today's day and age the negatives of a parade far outweigh the positives, year after year more trouble seems to come from them than good. One problem comes quite simply from the present day shortage in the number of people volunteering. With numbers of volunteers dropping 20% in the last decade alone its hard enough to find people around on a normal day to answer calls let alone to field a respectably sized group for a parade while still adequately providing for the protection of your district. Another issue I see is the maturity level of the fire service as a whole. With the necessary infusion of younger members to the ranks we begin to have to deal with the new "values" that modern society has instilled in our younger generations. The "I've got mine", entitled, spoon fed, nursed til puberty, one year wonders who know it all, can't be told otherwise, and have no interest in, or true respect for, the reputation or tradition of the service which they are joining. For a time this problem has been more evident and widespread in the volunteer ranks but it is a cancer that is no doubt slowly and surely spreading to many well respected career departments nationwide as well. Couple these issues with the age we are in where everything you do or say is very likely caught on camera or video and you have a recipe for trouble. Personally I am not a fan of parades, though I understand why many enjoy them and wish them to continue. My opinion however remains that parades are a detriment to what should be our first and foremost priority, protecting the taxpayers of our fire districts.

[FFPCogs 863]

The problem is not parades, it's only with some who attend them.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

yeah me and my buddy from eastchester are going to make a few parades this year.hit me up when you signe on.

[AndyC3J 190]

In some areas, the manpower issue has affected parades as well as normal every day turnout. Large groups in line of march are not as common as they used to be (at least not "up here"), and the days of the apparatus looking like it just rolled out of the factory....well, that's the rare treat in a time when it used to be the norm.

That having been said, I agree with some of the others: If you play "responsibly" and have made sure that your district is adequately covered, then there's nothing wrong with taking a few hours of a Saturday afternoon to enjoy yourself and show some pride in what you do.

[E106MKFD 56]

OK I'm takin the bait: I don't see how these fire parades can be justified when so few vollies have proper training. When you can say that your entire VFD is fully trained at same level as the career departments AND your entire VFD does its full in-service training then why not. But I don't see anything like that in this area. Not even close. But in this state nobody can make you train. Crazy!

These fire parades unfortunately are little more than a drinking event. And from what I see many of these participants are not likely ever stretching lines or taking the roof!

Where I live it is a sad joke as they can barely get a rig out anymore but the boys are all lined up for the parade.

Just my opinion.

Though I believe you bring up some valid points on issues with training in the fire service I feel there are some added dimensions you miss. Obviously this won't apply to all in the fire service but for some of us we spend numerous hours maintaining equipment, responding on a regular basis as well as taking training courses. Parade season is a reward for those few of us who have been working and have been active all year and want to show off their pride for department, community, and equipment.

Sadly many within our local fire service take advantage and misrepresent departments or only come to the parades with no work into preparation, training or response. So just because a smaller average of the service truly puts in their time and effort we should all be penalized for the disservice presented by others?

Again I realize this doesn't pertain to every department and obviously the service is going through some tough times but there is more to parades then just a fool fest. To be honest fire department parades will sort themselves out anyway. Many members don't march and many are disinterested. I've seen the amount of parades attended from some departments go from 15 to 20 parades a year down to 5 to 7.

Edited January 19, 2014 by E106MKFD

[Westchester 49]

"Many members don't march and many are disinterested. I've seen the amount of parades attended from some departments go from 15 to 20 parades a year down to 5 to 7." How true you are E106MKFD during our monthly meetings it's like pulling teeth or begging members to march in a parade. I love parades, I see old friends, talk and joke, and even my loved one gets into the sprit. The things I hate are standing around in the heat and crappy designed dress uniform with radioactive shoes that feel like there going to explode on my feet and when or parade committee tells us is only half mile and down hill when it's really 3 miles, up hill, and marching past residents back yards. And for God sakes put more crappers on the parade route. If have to walk 3 blocks and stand in line to take a leak that smells like someone had bad tacos the night before.

[everybodygoes 331]

They are a complete waste of money. A true measure of your worth is not some BS Chinese junk trophy 5 feet tall, its hearing from neighboring FD's that you get $hit done, wether you have 5 guys or 15 at a fire. I haven't been to a parade in probably 15 years, sure they are fun, but if your tax payers knew that you spent 3k between the band, the food and the diesel and gas to get there, you think they would be happy? Sure kids like them, but I bet your neighbor would like those 10-20 people spending a nice sat afternoon at the emergency they called in instead. And I hardly think that the 10 kegs of beer is hurting anyone financially at these events, not when they budget in the tens of thousands to host them.

[FFEMT150 214]

My biggest problem with parades is that they become the focal point of the department. Come home without a best overall and it's nothing but bitching and finger pointing.

The alcohol? Big problem! Some guys just can't hold their booze. The beer starts flowing and the beer muscles grow. No time for crap like that. They also strip the district of manpower. I remember the Lake george parade a few years ago, there were several departments that couldn't get out for their alarms the entire weekend. I also remember running calls that weekend with myself, two other interior members and a driver. No officers or other interior guys around.

Want to have fun in the fire service? Train together or bring back soft ball.

[BFD1054 1,552]

My biggest problem with parades is that they become the focal point of the department. Come home without a best overall and it's nothing but bitching and finger pointing.

The alcohol? Big problem! Some guys just can't hold their booze. The beer starts flowing and the beer muscles grow. No time for crap like that. They also strip the district of manpower. I remember the Lake george parade a few years ago, there were several departments that couldn't get out for their alarms the entire weekend. I also remember running calls that weekend with myself, two other interior members and a driver. No officers or other interior guys around.

Want to have fun in the fire service? Train together or bring back soft ball.

Pat, has anything been done to ensure this doesn't occur in the future? I highly doubt it. But silly me, alarms don't occur during parades. Time for depts to wake the hell up and get their priorities straight.

We've beaten this topic to death over and over again.

Look, if your dept has their s**t together and regularly trains and can handle their alarms with proper manpower and in a timely response, then a parade here and there isn't a big deal. However, this is unfortunately not the case for an overwhelming number of departments.

Edited January 20, 2014 by BFD1054

[FFEMT150 214]

Pat, has anything been done to ensure this doesn't occur in the future? I highly doubt it. But silly me, alarms don't occur during parades. Time for depts to wake the hell up and get their priorities straight.

We've beaten this topic to death over and over again.

Look, if your dept has their s**t together and regularly trians and can handle their alarms with proper manpower and in a timely response, then a parade here and there isn't a big deal. However, this is unfortunately not the case for an overwhelming number of departments.

Only reason I chimed in mike is because I said in another thread that if a parade thread was started I would be right along side another forum member bashing parades. I am a man of my word. And you are right, nothing has been done to ensure proper coverage during a parade.

[FFPCogs 863]

Look, if your dept has their s**t together and regularly trians and can handle their alarms with proper manpower and in a timely response, then a parade here and there isn't a big deal. However, this is unfortunately not the case for an overwhelming number of departments.

I agree with you in that every department should make firefighting their priority, but I don't think parades are why many of them don't, parades are but a symptom. When you come right down to it, any department that places attending parades over firefighting is suffering a far larger problem within their organization so whether or not they attend them won't make any difference on the fireground.

Edited January 20, 2014 by FFPCogs

[gamewell45 258]

The alcohol? Big problem! Some guys just can't hold their booze. The beer starts flowing and the beer muscles grow. No time for crap like that.

That problem can be easily fixed. Eliminate the beer at parades; serve diet soda and bottled water. If you need a drink (alcohol) hit up the local bar; its good for the local economy as well.

[gamewell45 258]

Only reason I chimed in mike is because I said in another thread that if a parade thread was started I would be right along side another forum member bashing parades. I am a man of my word. And you are right, nothing has been done to ensure proper coverage during a parade.

Out of curiousity, have you identified these departments? Or is is confined to one department?

[FFEMT150 214]

Out of curiousity, have you identified these departments? Or is is confined to one department?

There are four that come to mind right away, however, I do not wish to list them on the forum. I am not a fan of bad mouthing departments on this page. I trust you understand and support my decision to keep them anonymous.

[gamewell45 258]

There are four that come to mind right away, however, I do not wish to list them on the forum. I am not a fan of bad mouthing departments on this page. I trust you understand and support my decision to keep them anonymous.

Of course. No problem.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I agree with you in that every department should make firefighting their priority, but I don't think parades are why many of them don't, parades are but a symptom. When you come right down to it, any department that places attending parades over firefighting is suffering a far larger problem within their organization so whether or not they attend them won't make any difference on the fireground.

Sir,

I totally agree with you. However, my point was not that parades cause depts to have poor training and/or response times. My point was that MANY vfds can muster 15-20+ members for parades, but are lucky to get 5 show up for training or alarms. We've all seen this or know what I'm referring to. If not, maybe your dept is in good shape or you're blind to the issues.

It just pains me to hear the same depts regularly re-sounding for manpower for alarms, including structure fires.

In short, if you can muster up 20+ men for a parade, but can't get rigs out the door for alarms, you better damn well be re-evaluating your existence.

Stay safe

[BFD1054 1,552]

Only reason I chimed in mike is because I said in another thread that if a parade thread was started I would be right along side another forum member bashing parades. I am a man of my word. And you are right, nothing has been done to ensure proper coverage during a parade.

Understand 100% Pat, it's a damn shame. Thanks for your honesty.