Chester NY Volunteer Ambulance shutdown

[Ga-Lin 86]

EMStar has been the back up ALS as well as BLS as far as responding from Rockland to Orange I think I have heard that happen maybe once but atleast they give there correct location and eta when responding. Also I see them all the time at St. Anthony's for transports as well as other hospitals in orange county. The areas they cover seem to love them. Lets see how long MLSS staffs Chester when Chester is not paying for service. Everyone out there knows MLSS does not keep dedicated trucks around long for FREE. It will be the same as other stations.

I got to agree with you on this one. No commercial service is going to post a unit anywhere to sit and do nothing. It's lost revenue. Unless the contract/agreement (doubt that it's an agreement, (to loose) specifies a dedicated unit which is going to have to be paid for. The other interesting thing that I read in the posted article from the Chronical News, stated, according to the new town supervisor, that the cost to the citizens of Chester will be the same, covered by insurance, with no other outlay from patients. Weelllll I gotta tell ya, commercial services both want & will pursue the 20% copay that insurance/medicare/medicaid doesn't pay. (unless there is something else in this contract) While VAC's send out copay bills they are more likly to write off these debts if not received. It's a long hard road with commercial sevices which frequently means payment plans or collection agencies. Again, we'll just have to sit back & see how this all plays out.

[201/65 94]

MLSS is a vary well names company but also maybe you shold look into the debt they are in that noone knows about. The owner of the company has been trying to sell for a few years now but the wants you to buy the company and take the debt with it and they do not own most of there stuff. Why do they keep nice new vehicles because they do not own any of them they lease the and get new to look good. all there stations leased MLSS HQ well they don't own that.

More uninformed hatred. A quick search of public tax records deeds MLSS HQ, Newburgh, Middletown, and Kingston stations to either Mobile Life Support Services or a LLC with the same Newburgh PO box as MLSS. A common practice among medium-large businesses. As for vehicle leasing, who knows if they own or lease, another common practice among successful medium-large businesses. Maybe that's their trick, they incorporate traditional business practices into their plans as opposed to the traditional public safety methods of spend spend spend.

[Danger 160]

EMS people constantly ask why they aren't respected as stuff like this happens. EMS should never be part of a commercial service. Don't expect to ever get public safety recognition when you act like a business.

[Ga-Lin 86]

EMS people constantly ask why they aren't respected as stuff like this happens. EMS should never be part of a commercial service. Don't expect to ever get public safety recognition when you act like a business.

And a corrupt &/or mismanaged volunteer system is sooo much better?

[fireguy43 35]

Yes MLSS covers Monroe and Goshen but that is as ALS provider and sometimes BLS back up not as primary response they have Volunteers for that and if anyone care to check the reason GOSHEN gets out for all there call as well as TOWN OF NEWBURGH ems it is because MLSS staffs them anywhere from 5-7 days a week and between the hours of 6a-6p. I am not saying this is the wrong thing Volunteers do need help and it is a way to out source staffing needs. At the same time I have also heard that Chester had added paid staff to help cover calls for them and by the sounds on the scanner have been crewing for calls. No matter what I feel Everything should be tried before you close the doors to a Volunteer agency. I also believe Chester VAC owns there equipment and rigs so they may be without a home per say and the Town Supervisor don't want them they are still a DOH certified agency and technically still able to operate.

MLSS is a vary well names company but also maybe you shold look into the debt they are in that noone knows about. The owner of the company has been trying to sell for a few years now but the wants you to buy the company and take the debt with it and they do not own most of there stuff. Why do they keep nice new vehicles because they do not own any of them they lease the and get new to look good. all there stations leased MLSS HQ well they don't own that.

First of all, you are so wrong on so many aspects of this post that I don't even know where to start. How would you know the debt structure of a privately owned company? How do you know what their financial statements look like, and what they own vs. what they don't own? And if you are running an EMS service, shouldn't you try to have vehicles that are "nice and new" as opposed to old rust buckets that are unreliable? When did that become wrong and reason to criticize? Running an EMS agency with a fleet of vehicles, each equipped with the standard load of equipment, eats up a lot of cash. That means that an EMS provider usually has a fair amount of debt. How much debt is really none of your business, has nothing to do with the level of service provided, and has zero impact on response times. Your earlier post that this happened because the Chief was a female was laughable, but now you crossed the line to an uninformed rant.

[Danger 160]

And a corrupt &/or mismanaged volunteer system is sooo much better?

Always fire based or third service. If you wanna be a commercial agency, expect the respect (and pay) of any joe blow urgent care clinic.

[moggie6 54]

Always a tough decision and hard pill to swallow. I'd like to know a couple of things about Chester VAC myself to make a true informed opinion. However I'm sure that no one out there is going to turn over their call numbers for the last 12 months, analyze the amount of responses, no responses, average response time from dispatch, responding, ambulance arriving on scene, and patient contact.

As far as the Town of Chester, they are merely exercising their rights and responsibilities as a town in the State of New York. You might not like the decision but as elected officials it is theirs to make. The people voted them into office so they are the people's voice. We will know if the right decision was made come election time.

[x635 4,066]

How will the assets be disposed of? Like the building, ambulances, and equipment?

[thebreeze 194]

Just to set the record straight NWVAC was not shut down because of not answering calls. It was because the Town Supervisor 1 has no respect for females in office and the Chief at that time was one and 2 because he felt due to them having the level of EMT-I that the truck needed 1 on every single call when they went out which was not the case. Shows he must have been wrong because when they came back in service they had the same number of members and made there calls. It was not until later on they hired on some paid staff.

Just the name savevolunteers911 screams bias and shows an agenda and what your priorities are. I don't care if a person is volunteer or paid but if they are in the emergency services all they should care about is the lives and well being of the people they have sworn to protect, the people who pay taxes and expect a reliable consistent service, the people who voted for this mayor, who its sounds like is trying to do what he believes best for his constituents. The town doesn't get to vote specifically on who provides them EMS service, but if they did could you be confident they would 100% choose the VAC? I don't think many VACs in any number of communities could answer that question with supreme confidence.

[Ga-Lin 86]

How will the assets be disposed of? Like the building, ambulances, and equipment?

I believe the building belongs to the town (which I've heard the town PD has been licking their chops for). The ambulnces and other equipment belong to the VAC or their creditors to help pay off any debt ( a figure of $100,000 was mentioned somewhere) they might have. I also think there is some kind of law or regulation concerning the distribution, back to the community, any funds left over after the disolution of a 501 © (3) not for profit which Chester VAC is.

[Westchester 49]

It's sad to see this happen to Chester Vac, but let's be real it's happening everwhere.In a thread I started awhile ago about Irvington Volunteer Ambulance Corps. volunteers are hard to come by know a days. Years ago residents lived, worked, akd breathed their village or town. Now residents just want their garbage picked up and thats it. We all are or have been members of a EMS agency. Things change members get old, move, or just can't do the time. It's hard for me to say but all EMS shold be paid and staffed 24/7. When I hear 60 control page out over and over and pver for a driver oe EMT it kills me to think what the patient or family is thinking ( I been there and lived it ) where is the help. The system is broke and people will die with delay or inexperenced EMT's Sorry Chester Vac your one of many that will shut its doors

[velcroMedic1987 330]

EMS people constantly ask why they aren't respected as stuff like this happens. EMS should never be part of a commercial service. Don't expect to ever get public safety recognition when you act like a business.

Emergency services are businesses and there is nothing wrong with following sound business and financial practices. In fact some of the best volunteer chiefs/officers run businesses as their full-time job bringing their expertise and experience to the VAC/VFD.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

From what little facts are available, I get from this that the VAC couldn't cover calls and contracted with a commercial company to provide 12 hour coverage during the day. According to the article, a village spokesperson said their liaison wasn't allowed to attend VAC meetings and there were issues to be resolved. The village of Chester exercised their legal right and canceled the agreement with CVAC and retained the services of MLSS. Since General Municipal Law says the municipality can provide ambulance service, it seems to me that they are within their purview.

Allegations of improprieties, golf games or gifts are purely hearsay. I can't believe the posts are even allowed to remain.

People may not like it and there may be sour grapes but as long as calls are being covered, isn't that the point?

I'm sure many more facts will be coming out as this grows legs in the media.

Edited January 20, 2014 by velcroMedic1987

[Ga-Lin 86]

Always fire based or third service. If you wanna be a commercial agency, expect the respect (and pay) of any joe blow urgent care clinic.

I must admit that I'm a third service advocate myself. However, every option has it's own benifits & draw backs. A municpally run third service whether it's a seperate EMS division or attached to the FD or PD is expensive. Most municpalities outside of large urban centers like NYC or county based systems don't have the tax base to pay for the support of such systems. Volunteer systems/agencies have the unique benifit of being cheap (yeah I know "You get what you pay for"). The most costly expense, manpower, is not very high, even shoud they need, as many do, to pay for daytime coverage. The main weakness in many volunteer systems is of course administration & leadship. Generally, members of volunteer systems are, as we know, good well meaning people. The problem is that many don't know or understand how to run a business (for lack of a better term it's not a dirty word). My personal opinion is that the whole voting in your leadership doesn't really work well. Either those elected know what they are doing and one of a few things happen. 1.) they keep getting re-elected and keep the position for, what sometimes feels like, eons. This leads to, unless they are exceptionally gifted & open minded, either stagnation or eventual collapse due to the lack of preparation of a replacement when they eventually go to that big VAC in the sky or to that other place in the oppisite direction. 2.) They get voted out because they are running things to well, you know enforceing rules etc. or just because someone has more friends than they do. One term of mismanagement or bad leadership can undo years of progress which might also lead to collapse. Of course the worse case senario is election of someone who turns criminal, no one in these agencies starts off that way, who is just smart or stupid enough (depending on your own point of view) to believe they can get away with skiming off funds. I just read today that two individuals were arrested in connection with a $30,000 loss from acct's from an American Legion in Ellenville. Vigilance is the price we must all continuiously pay to prevent this from happening. I don't hold commercial services as all together evil. Most people working for them usually got their start or are still volunteers themselves. They just want to earn a living, as I have, doing something they really enjoy. Because of this I have not "worked" a day in my life and am much happer than most "9-5er's". They are however a carrot vs stick option for most municipalities. I think I better cut this rant off now. Sorry folks I didn't really mean to go on this long, obviously EMS is near & dear to my heart.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Ga-Lin

[v85 212]

Just to correct some information:

It is my understanding that CVAC was not "dissolved" per say. What happened was that the Town of Chester cancelled their contract for them to provide EMS service, evicted them from their town owned ambulance building and repossessed two of their ambulances which were town owned and is no longer going to pay insurance etc on the vehicles.

In a purely technical sense, CVAC still has its Certificate of Need from NYSDOH and one ambulance that they own themselves. In theory they could give out a seven digit number and have people call them instead of 911, like some of the volunteer agencies in NYC and Hatazolah do

[Bnechis 3,961]

Since General Municipal Law says the municipality can provide ambulance service, it seems to me that they are within their purview.

Contracting with an agency (volunteer, commercial, hospital, fire protection district, etc.) is not part of GML. What I believe you are referring to is a MUNICON, which is the municipalities ability to get a certificate of need (CON) without "approval" from the regional EMS council.

Their is no legal requirement in NYS for a municipality to provide EMS (however their are many legal requirements once they decide to). Their is also nothing in the law that prevents them from switching providers, unless they violate a clause in the contract with the existing service.

Just to correct some information:

It is my understanding that CVAC was not "dissolved" per say. What happened was that the Town of Chester cancelled their contract for them to provide EMS service, evicted them from their town owned ambulance building and repossessed two of their ambulances which were town owned and is no longer going to pay insurance etc on the vehicles.

In a purely technical sense, CVAC still has its Certificate of Need from NYSDOH and one ambulance that they own themselves. In theory they could give out a seven digit number and have people call them instead of 911, like some of the volunteer agencies in NYC and Hatazolah do

1st does CVAC hold the CON or is it the towns?

2nd this might open up a huge can of worms when it comes to mutual aid (what's in the plan?) and providing ALS?

[v85 212]

I'm not sure about the CON and who holds it exactly.

I do know that there the Village of Chester mayor (different from the Town of Chester supervisor) apparently said CVAC could still respond to calls in the village, but that never happened because of the confusion it would create

[Ga-Lin 86]

Just to correct some information:

It is my understanding that CVAC was not "dissolved" per say. What happened was that the Town of Chester cancelled their contract for them to provide EMS service, evicted them from their town owned ambulance building and repossessed two of their ambulances which were town owned and is no longer going to pay insurance etc on the vehicles.

In a purely technical sense, CVAC still has its Certificate of Need from NYSDOH and one ambulance that they own themselves. In theory they could give out a seven digit number and have people call them instead of 911, like some of the volunteer agencies in NYC and Hatazolah do

An interesting point that brings up a couple of issues. This would put them, as a community emergency service, advocating to the public in their town not to call the universially recognized & countywide accepted emergency number. I wonder how that would go over with their peers in the EMS community in the county. The other issue is, who would they call for ALS services if needed. MLSS is now their compition for town service. I think, if called, MLSS would respond. But would they call ? There is no law, rule or regulation, that I know of, which compeles them to do so, except for the moral/ethical reason of ensuring the best level of care posible for the emergency encountered. would they call another agency from a county away ?Another issue is that according to section 3012 subsection f of Article 30 of the Public Health Care Law the operating certificate may be ....."revoked, suspended, limited, or annuled by the dept. (of health, NYS)...."had discontinued operations for a period in excess of one month.... ,following a hearing. Such proceedings "may be initiated by any person, corparation, association, or public officer" If the have PO'd their own town board and it sounds like they have, the town can so petition. Unfortunatly, they have brought this on themselves. It's also, unfortunatly, going to be interesting to see what develops. If anyone in that agency is listening, it might not be to late to save yourselves, but you've got your work cut out for yourselves with some serious damage control and a** kissing to your town board. Or you can listen to others who might be advising you to go a more strong route and fight it out in the arena of public opinion. BIG MISTAKE ! If even a little of what has become public is true.

[Ga-Lin 86]

Contracting with an agency (volunteer, commercial, hospital, fire protection district, etc.) is not part of GML. What I believe you are referring to is a MUNICON, which is the municipalities ability to get a certificate of need (CON) without "approval" from the regional EMS council.

Their is no legal requirement in NYS for a municipality to provide EMS (however their are many legal requirements once they decide to). Their is also nothing in the law that prevents them from switching providers, unless they violate a clause in the contract with the existing service.

1st does CVAC hold the CON or is it the towns?

2nd this might open up a huge can of worms when it comes to mutual aid (what's in the plan?) and providing ALS?

I think there is such a law but only applies to muncipalities with population of over 1 million. like NYC. Not applicable here.

[Dinosaur 844]

Contracting with an agency (volunteer, commercial, hospital, fire protection district, etc.) is not part of GML. What I believe you are referring to is a MUNICON, which is the municipalities ability to get a certificate of need (CON) without "approval" from the regional EMS council.

Their is no legal requirement in NYS for a municipality to provide EMS (however their are many legal requirements once they decide to). Their is also nothing in the law that prevents them from switching providers, unless they violate a clause in the contract with the existing service.

1st does CVAC hold the CON or is it the towns?

2nd this might open up a huge can of worms when it comes to mutual aid (what's in the plan?) and providing ALS?

Nope, no requirement. But the law does say a municipality may provide it.

This is the law -

§ 122-b. General ambulance services. 1. Any county, city, town or

village, acting individually or jointly, may provide an emergency

medical service, a general ambulance service or a combination of such

services for the purpose of providing prehospital emergency medical

treatment or transporting sick or injured persons found within the

boundaries of the municipality or the municipalities acting jointly to a

hospital, clinic, sanatorium or other place for treatment of such

illness or injury, and for that purpose may:

(a) Acquire by gift or purchase one or more motor vehicles suitable

for such purpose and supply and equip the same with such materials and

facilities as it may consider necessary for prehospital emergency

treatment, and may operate, maintain, repair and replace such vehicles

and such supplies and equipment;

( Contract with one or more individuals, municipal corporations,

associations, or other organizations, having sufficient trained and

experienced personnel, for operation, maintenance and repair of such

emergency medical service or ambulance vehicles and for the furnishing

of prehospital emergency treatment;

© Contract with one or more individuals, municipal corporations,

associations, or other organizations to supply, staff and equip

emergency medical service or ambulance vehicles suitable for such

purposes and operate such vehicles for the furnishing of prehospital

emergency treatment;

(d) Employ any combination of the methods authorized in paragraph (a),

( or ©;

(e) No contract shall be entered into pursuant to the provisions of

this section for the services of an emergency rescue and first aid squad

of a fire department or fire company which is subject to the provisions

of section two hundred nine-b of the general municipal law;

(f) Consider prehospital emergency treatment as that care provided by

certified emergency medical technicians or certified advanced emergency

medical technicians certified pursuant to the provisions of article

thirty of the public health law.

[EMT111 149]

EMStar has been the back up ALS as well as BLS as far as responding from Rockland to Orange I think I have heard that happen maybe once but atleast they give there correct location and eta when responding. Also I see them all the time at St. Anthony's for transports as well as other hospitals in orange county. The areas they cover seem to love them. Lets see how long MLSS staffs Chester when Chester is not paying for service. Everyone out there knows MLSS does not keep dedicated trucks around long for FREE. It will be the same as other stations.

I will say that most of the active members in my agency are at the very most indifferent in their opinion of Emstar. And just to clarify for everyone, Emstar was not being paid by Chester VAC, which is why they pulled their coverage. MLSS is being paid by the town, who probably won't just stop paying their bill.

I believe the building belongs to the town (which I've heard the town PD has been licking their chops for). The ambulnces and other equipment belong to the VAC or their creditors to help pay off any debt ( a figure of $100,000 was mentioned somewhere) they might have. I also think there is some kind of law or regulation concerning the distribution, back to the community, any funds left over after the disolution of a 501 © (3) not for profit which Chester VAC is.

Mlss is moving into the ambulance bay on February 1st, though I don't know what the town is doing with the two international rigs the town owns.

[Ga-Lin 86]

Rumor has it that NYS DOH EMS has suspended or revolked Chester's operating certificate.

[RNEMT26 40]

. I guess MLSS came into the Town Supervisor's office for a secret meeting and brought some nice Irish Whiskey, some imported cigars and a few free games of golf at a local country club. There was no recent relationship between the Town of Chester and MLSS, so in order for MLSS to even be considered, they must have come forward with something sweet for the Town Supervisor. MLSS works behind the scenes and thru backdoor deals. Back when Chester VAC wanted to dump MLSS in favor of Regional as the ALS provider for Chester, MLSS admins came and met with the Town Supervisor for a secret meeting.

- For real?? Those are some prettily brazen statements to make, guy. There's a lot of people who work for them on here and I'm pretty sure they'd disagree with those statements. MLSS is a business and it's run like any other business, to make money. Your comments are just ignorant.