Yonkers Firefighters Battle Cold, Ice, Two Multi-Alarm fires

[tommyguy 104]

The Yonkers Fire Department has their hands full tonight, one of the coldest nights of the winter, with two multi-alarm structure fires plus other smaller jobs as well. The first multi-alarm fire was in late afternoon on Riverdale Avenue. The second at mid-evening on Nodine Hill.

Less than three hours after battling a three-alarm fire on Riverdale Avenue that left two residents in critical condition, firefighters responded at nine-thirty Tuesday evening to [what became] a four-alarm blaze, on Beech Street, that injured at least two people. Link

Stay safe guys!

[tommyguy 104]

I don't have a rundown on the company assignments or the MA companies. I did hear this a few minutes ago.

E317 Yonkers, TL6 White Plains and Car 2517 White Plains responding to an activated alarm at St. John's Riverside Hospital on No. B'way.

I think TL6 and 2517 are working from The Big House. I heard E317 get assigned to Station Six.

[tommyguy 104]

Now they have a reported structure fire (basement) at 2 Landscape Avenue in South Yonkers ( near So. B'way and Valentine Lane). On arrival: fire may have been extinguished by homeowner.

E309, 317, 319 Yonkers, E170 Hartsdale, L78 Yonkers, TL6 White Plains and Car 2517 White Plains.

[tommyguy 104]

Lot of things going on now.

E5 Pelham and L16 Eastchester released. E22 and Car 2309 New Rochelle at Sta1 (HQ). E305 Yonkers at Sta10. E204 Mt. Vernon at Sta12. E170 Hartsdale at Sta13.

I'm sure there's others. I think L78 Yonkers was sent to Sta14.

[Using_All_Hands 140]

Reserve Units activated tonight: E305, E317, E319, L78, Bat 3, Bat 4

Others Heard: Car 2, Car 4, Car 5, Car 6, Car 7, Car 45, SOD, Rehab, MSU

Mutual Aid Units:

New Rochelle: 2309, E22 (Both Times)

White Plains: 2517, TL6 (4th Alarm)

Mount Vernon: E204 (4th), E206 (3rd)

Hartsdale: E170 (Both times)

Eastchester: L16 (4th), TL17 (3rd)

Fairview: L1 (Both times)

Pelham: E5 (4th)

Pelham Manor: TL3 (4th)

I think E22, E204, L16 went to work on Beech, and the remaining companies (except L1 which went OOS mechanical) handled additional runs in the city.

A confusing, busy night in Yonkers - much respect to all involved including their Communications folks.

[tommyguy 104]

I think I know what you mean by confusing but listening to the radio transmissions I didn't sense any confusion. It seemed like a well-orchestrated response to a difficult situation. It was fairly amazing actually. I really salute all involved. I also noticed that when Yonkers FD radio was releasing companies back to their jurisdiction the dispatcher thanked them for their help. That was a nice touch!

As a Yonkers resident and homeowner I was somewhat relieved at the way in which responses were carried out during the Beech Street incident. Especially the way a full response was mustered for the Landscape Avenue job (which was reported as a structure fire). Believe me, that was very reassuring.

As someone who lived and worked in White Plains for many years I got a kick out of hearing the truck company coming up North Broadway last night to the activated alarm at St. John's Hospital (I live relatively close by) and knowing it was Tower Ladder 6 from WPFD Station Two! Years ago I knew guys who worked at Station Two -- with the engine company, though, I don't recall knowing anyone who worked the truck -- and I can only imagine what they would've thought.

I also knew a guy (Vincent Varley) who worked for Hartsdale FD. So I got a kick out of hearing E170 responding to the job near South Broadway. Then hearing them return to Station 13 on Kimball Avenue.

Quite a night and a terrific performance by all involved. As a Yonkers homeowner I give a heartfelt, "Great Job Guys and Thanks Much!"

[BFD669 3]

Greenville doesn't respond to Yonkers anymore?

[FDNYBuff97 5]

Greenville doesn't respond to Yonkers anymore?

I believe Squad 15 is oos so they're down an engine and can't send mutual aid until the squad is back so they bumped up Hartsdale and Fairview

[Remember585 815]

I believe Squad 15 is oos so they're down an engine and can't send mutual aid until the squad is back so they bumped up Hartsdale and Fairview

Correct.

[FirNaTine 370]

FDMV only has 4 Engines in service I believe. Why in God's name would they send anyone as stripped as they are. Just can't figure some Depts. rationale out. How do Depts justify such an irresponsible move?

[wraftery 1,275]

I think I know what you mean by confusing but listening to the radio transmissions I didn't sense any confusion. It seemed like a well-orchestrated response to a difficult situation. It was fairly amazing actually. I really salute all involved. I also noticed that when Yonkers FD radio was releasing companies back to their jurisdiction the dispatcher thanked them for their help. That was a nice touch!

As a Yonkers resident and homeowner I was somewhat relieved at the way in which responses were carried out during the Beech Street incident. Especially the way a full response was mustered for the Landscape Avenue job (which was reported as a structure fire). Believe me, that was very reassuring.

As someone who lived and worked in White Plains for many years I got a kick out of hearing the truck company coming up North Broadway last night to the activated alarm at St. John's Hospital (I live relatively close by) and knowing it was Tower Ladder 6 from WPFD Station Two! Years ago I knew guys who worked at Station Two -- with the engine company, though, I don't recall knowing anyone who worked the truck -- and I can only imagine what they would've thought.

I also knew a guy (Vincent Varley) who worked for Hartsdale FD. So I got a kick out of hearing E170 responding to the job near South Broadway. Then hearing them return to Station 13 on Kimball Avenue.

Quite a night and a terrific performance by all involved. As a Yonkers homeowner I give a heartfelt, "Great Job Guys and Thanks Much!"

You are welcome, Tommy. It's actually few and far between that we are thanked for our professionalism. FYI I worked with Vinny Varley. He was in Qay Sanh during the Tet Offensive. We had a job in a cockloft one night and Vinny said "Nam has nothing that beats this." He since got hurt on the job and had to retire. If you see Vinnie, say hello for me

[tommyguy 104]

I sure will say hello and thanks Chief! I served over there too, in a U.S. Army Assault Helicopter Company.

I haven't seen Vinnie in quite a while. I used to give him a ride to work once in a while when he was at Station 2. I remember the night he was overcome by smoke in a serious fire on East Hartsdale Avenue, trying to get to an upper floor I think. He wound up in WCMC but as I recall he bounced back from that. Very sorry to hear he retired with an injury. He was a class act, a guy I really respected a lot.

I had another buddy who went to work with Fairview FD. John Graham. Another very solid guy.

[Bnechis 3,961]

FDMV only has 4 Engines in service I believe. Why in God's name would they send anyone as stripped as they are. Just can't figure some Depts. rationale out. How do Depts justify such an irresponsible move?

1) By standards, how many engines does a city of 4 sq miles and 66,000 population require? That need to be determined before one can say if they are stripped or not.

2) they signed the mutual aid plan. You want assistance you have to agree to give it.

[wraftery 1,275]

I sure will say hello and thanks Chief! I served over there too, in a U.S. Army Assault Helicopter Company.

I haven't seen Vinnie in quite a while. I used to give him a ride to work once in a while when he was at Station 2. I remember the night he was overcome by smoke in a serious fire on East Hartsdale Avenue, trying to get to an upper floor I think. He wound up in WCMC but as I recall he bounced back from that. Very sorry to hear he retired with an injury. He was a class act, a guy I really respected a lot.

I had another buddy who went to work with Fairview FD. John Graham. Another very solid guy.

That was the job I was talking about. And we did get control of the 6th floor and the building looks like it never happened. I also know Graham.

[61MACKBR1 222]

1) By standards, how many engines does a city of 4 sq miles and 66,000 population require? That need to be determined before one can say if they are stripped or not.

2) they signed the mutual aid plan. You want assistance you have to agree to give it.

Can you say "Countywide Unified Fire Department"?

[billfitz 109]

• can you say "Home Rule"

[tommyguy 104]

If I can ask...

Regarding the FDMV company that was assigned on MA. Engine 204 is shown as a reserve rig. Would one of Mt. Vernon's front line engine companies necessarily been taken OOS in order to man E204? I didn't understand that. I don't think I've seen a standby company assigned to MA before.

[61MACKBR1 222]

• can you say "Home Rule"

Back in the 1950's and 1960's, local Fire Departments, such as Mount Vernon, New Rochelle and, yes, even Yonkers, had more fire companies than they do today, to protect the lives and property of the citizens of these locals (as well as the others in Westchester County). Yes, those were the "Good Old Days" However, this is now 2014, where monies and funding are extremely tight and local municipalities are cutting back and back and back (almost to the hairy edge and in some opinions over it). Local Fire Protection in many cities are being question (while lives and property are being jeopardized). Local Taxpayers will ultimately get to a breaking point (if they haven't already gotten there) where they will request that their local politicians fight in Albany to abolish the "Home Rule" and request State Legislators to look at County Consolidation throughout the state. Other states in the United States do not have the "Home Rule". This rule only serves to only benefit the few and mostly doesn't benefit the taxpayers in the long run. Just my opinion, without bashing anyone else's right to their opinion.

[billfitz 109]

Not an opinion - just stating a fact! - Theoretically a "fire district" could be created in Westchester that does include 100% of the county - that could circumvent "Home Rule"

[Bnechis 3,961]

Local Taxpayers will ultimately get to a breaking point (if they haven't already gotten there) where they will request that their local politicians fight in Albany to abolish the "Home Rule" and request State Legislators to look at County Consolidation throughout the state. Other states in the United States do not have the "Home Rule". This rule only serves to only benefit the few and mostly doesn't benefit the taxpayers in the long run.

I keep hearing that taxpayers will get to the breaking point, but until they show up on election day and vote to change the system, nothing is going to change.

In the last mayoral election in New Rochelle less than 18% of the registered voters showed up (12% of the total population). The mayor received 7,501 votes in a city of 77,000 people and claimed that since he won by a "landslide" that it was a mandate for him to do whatever he thought was best.

Most school district budgets keep getting overwhelmingly voted to increase above the tax caps & they make up 50 - 70% of the property tax.

I hear people are at the breaking point, but their actions seam to ignore that fact.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Not an opinion - just stating a fact! - Theoretically a "fire district" could be created in Westchester that does include 100% of the county - that could circumvent "Home Rule"

Current state law only allows towns to do this. GML requires cities to provide municipal fire protection and does not have this option. But a district could be made up of every community excluding the 6 cities (Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, Peekskill, Rye, White Plains & Yonkers).

[FirNaTine 370]

1) By standards, how many engines does a city of 4 sq miles and 66,000 population require? That need to be determined before one can say if they are stripped or not.

2) they signed the mutual aid plan. You want assistance you have to agree to give it.

A City 4 square miles with 80.000 plus needs more then what the Standards say especially if they have a heavy Fire Load such as a City like MT.Vernon, no? Who knows best guys that work there or some pencil pusher. Maybe the "Powers to Be" should only sign the M/A Plan with the Stipulation that they will" play in all the other rain deer games" if they can afford to without putting their own members and their taxpayers in harms way? Maybe some Depts should refuse to go into other Municipalities if they are constantly abusing the Plan. I believe YFD is last on the list to go to MT.Vernon and will only spend a certain amount of time there before they leave, like New Rochelle has done on occasion. I think it's time for the Mayors of these other Municipalities to get involved and put some pressure on those of the Municipalities that are abusing the Plan, along with the Top Brass of these locales. JMO

[61MACKBR1 222]

Current state law only allows towns to do this. GML requires cities to provide municipal fire protection and does not have this option. But a district could be made up of every community excluding the 6 cities (Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, Peekskill, Rye, White Plains & Yonkers).

Barry - Can you explain to all of us that don't know, exactly what GML is (what legislative body governs this law?)?

PS - I totally agree that taxpayers scream about rising taxes and a number of them look into cost saving measures. But sadly, either the vast majority don't pass their opinions onto their local politicians and/or their local politicians don't really care enough to want to bother to do something about it (either too much work on their part and/or too much political pressure from the outside, not to do anything about it).

Edited January 10, 2014 by 61MACKBR1

[TimesUp 148]

There are many more things that have to be taken into consideration when it comes to fire protection. Besides size and population you must also take into account Education level and poverty level. These are well connected with the frequency of fires in a given geographic area.

Politicians in Westchester and the people with ties to these politicians don't want to in they're mind give up control of there fire department or district. Good idea wrong time or county.

Besides Mutual aid seems to be effective enough that the politicians don't see a need for change. It's not like with whatever fires have been happening there has been a lack of response or manpower to these fires. I haven't seen a politician defend him or herself from from the press or public about not having an adequate amount of manning or apparatus.

There are many on this site who see a need for a better way, but the Politicians don't see the need. As far as they're concerned everything is working great and the mutual aid system is the most amazing idea ever. QTIP!

Edited January 10, 2014 by ltrob

[TimesUp 148]

If I can ask...

Regarding the FDMV company that was assigned on MA. Engine 204 is shown as a reserve rig. Would one of Mt. Vernon's front line engine companies necessarily been taken OOS in order to man E204? I didn't understand that. I don't think I've seen a standby company assigned to MA before.

E4 is in service everyday. As far as what spares they might of had in addition I can't say.

Edited January 10, 2014 by ltrob

[FirNaTine 370]

There are many more things that have to be taken into consideration when it comes to fire protection. Besides size and population you must also take into account Education level and poverty level. These are well connected with the frequency of fires in a given geographic area.

Politicians in Westchester and the people with ties to these politicians don't want to in they're mind give up control of there fire department or district. Good idea wrong time or county.

Besides Mutual aid seems to be effective enough that the politicians don't see a need for change. It's not like with whatever fires have been happening there has been a lack of response or manpower to these fires. I haven't seen a politician defend him or herself from from the press or public about not having an adequate amount of manning or apparatus.

There are many on this site who see a need for a better way, but the Politicians don't see the need. As far as they're concerned everything is working great and the mutual aid system is the most amazing idea ever. QTIP!

Spot on ltrob! Ive heard it with my own ears from Politicians including Mayors. Their thought is why should we hire more ffs or open a new station if we have neighboring Depts who will come and assist us. No need to increase our staffing. So as long as everyone keeps running to each others aid nobody will ever benefit except the Politicians.

[Dinosaur 844]

Barry - Can you explain to all of us that don't know, exactly what GML is (what legislative body governs this law?)?

PS - I totally agree that taxpayers scream about rising taxes and a number of them look into cost saving measures. But sadly, either the vast majority don't pass their opinions onto their local politicians and/or their local politicians don't really care enough to want to bother to do something about it (either too much work on their part and/or too much political pressure from the outside, not to do anything about it).

GML - General Municipal Law is a NYS statute. http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@LLGMU+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=34585110+&TARGET=VIEW

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) A City 4 square miles with 80.000 plus needs more then what the Standards say especially if they have a heavy Fire Load such as a City like MT.Vernon, no?

2) Who knows best guys that work there or some pencil pusher.

3) Maybe the "Powers to Be" should only sign the M/A Plan with the Stipulation that they will" play in all the other rain deer games" if they can afford to without putting their own members and their taxpayers in harms way?

4) Maybe some Depts should refuse to go into other Municipalities if they are constantly abusing the Plan. I believe YFD is last on the list to go to MT.Vernon and will only spend a certain amount of time there before they leave, like New Rochelle has done on occasion.

5) I think it's time for the Mayors of these other Municipalities to get involved and put some pressure on those of the Municipalities that are abusing the Plan, along with the Top Brass of these locales. JMO

1) or with 67,896 as they report. And while most communities have unreported population, all are judged (or misjudged accordingly). Lets look at the standards, you have stated that 4 engines is not enough, but the standards only require 3 for a city that size (and only 2 for that area if part of a larger dept.). MVFD runs 2-3 on the 4 engines or 8 - 10 (I believe they never have 3 on all) but the standard says 4ff/1off for the hazards in MV or 15 personnel (on engines).

So more undermanned engines is not the answer. Fewer properly staffed rigs is the answer. Fire trucks do not put out fires, firefighters do. In addition to the standards, look at the NIOSH studies that show few better staffed rigs are much more effective.

2) Good question, who knows best? Most of your recent post indicate that those that work in many depts. do not know. And since the local depts. are not meeting the standards, and you state they don't have enough rigs (I say they don't have enough staff). How can you say the "pencil pushers" who set those standards don't know better than those working there?

3) SInce no one can meet your definition, that logic would mean no one should sign it.

"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin

4) As long as there is "home rule" their will always be abuses by some communities. YFD does not write the card that MVFD submits, if MVFD puts them #6 (not exactly last in a county with 59 depts.) that's where they sit. YFD has stated they will stay as long as needed at the fire, but standing by in a station with unmanned spares they will give the dept enough time to perform a call back and staff them. If dept. policy is not to do a call back, then YFD is well within their rights to have such a policy

5) Since almost everyone is abusing the plan, kind of tough to get them to complain about exactly what they themselves are doing. I have heard for 30 years how if we keep fighting for proper staffing that someday we will have it and all thru that time we keep shrinking. Consolidation is the best chance of correcting the situation, but too many would rather keep complaining and hoping that we will go back to the good old days.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry - Can you explain to all of us that don't know, exactly what GML is (what legislative body governs this law?)?

NYS Municipal laws are divided to cover what different subdivisions can and cannot do: Counties, Cities, Towns & Villages. Many of these laws prevent one group from working with another.

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) There are many more things that have to be taken into consideration when it comes to fire protection. Besides size and population you must also take into account Education level and poverty level. These are well connected with the frequency of fires in a given geographic area.

2) Politicians in Westchester and the people with ties to these politicians don't want to in they're mind give up control of there fire department or district. Good idea wrong time or county.

3) Besides Mutual aid seems to be effective enough that the politicians don't see a need for change. It's not like with whatever fires have been happening there has been a lack of response or manpower to these fires. I haven't seen a politician defend him or herself from from the press or public about not having an adequate amount of manning or apparatus.

4) There are many on this site who see a need for a better way, but the Politicians don't see the need. As far as they're concerned everything is working great and the mutual aid system is the most amazing idea ever. QTIP!

1) true, but since we are substandard for size & population, hard to take the rest into account.

2) Its not just the politicians, I hear from a lot of firefighters who would rather remain understaffed then become part of anything else. The time is coming and if we do not set it the way we believe it should be then it will be forced on us and it will be set up by politicians that have no understanding of the fire service.

3) it only seams effective to them. And as long as that's the case, you are correct, it will not change.

4) You are correct, but as municipal finances continue to shrink and both career and volunteer depts. shrink, their will come a day when it will no longer work. Then the politician's will scramble for a fix.