Westchester Front Line Apparatus 15 Years of Age and Older

[FF398 45]

Montrose FD:

Engine 123 - 1987 Pemfab/Ward 79, currently serves as a spare engine.

E-123 was replaced by Engine 122 back in February of 2008.

[fireboy 6]

Hastings-on-Hudson E-44 is a 1991 Pierce

[IFCO3080 26]

Mount Kisco

Engine 102- 1984 Mack

Engine 103- 1993 Pierce

Cant forget the good old Utility 13 1998 Ford F350/PL custom box

[mscimia4 5]

Pleasantville Engine 260- 1994 Pierce

[Bnechis 3,961]

Another $ 3.8 Million to date

[SSCharged E100 7]

Ossining FD:

Engine 97 1990 E-One (plans for replacement for 2014)

Engine 98 i think is 1996 E-One

Engine 101 1993 E-One

Rescue 14 i think 1994 or 1995 E-One

[FFMedic62 0]

Lake Mohegan

Engine 253 '94 Freightliner Allegheny

Engine 254 '94 Freightliner Allegheny

Engine 255 '92 Pemfab Allegheny (replacement committee is active)

Ladder 10 '96 Spartan Smeal

[wedgeclose 59]

Most of these rigs though old in age are in pristine condition. Kudo's to the men and women Volunteers that keep them that way! Westchester County in recent years has seen the VOLUNTEER numbers diminish rapidly due to rising costs of housing and taxation. The number of alarms (especially in EMS) increased to the level that volunteers can no longer be assured to cover every call. On the Firefighting level I believe that in general most villages and towns have WAY MORE APPARATUS than needed for most calls! I support those who are calling for professional firefighters manning stations strategically placed in the county especially in those communities that have little activity on a normal day. Luckilly, I live in Ossining which has a FANTASTIC ALL VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT! While I agree that these men and women are very PROUD of thier service to the community the need for replacement of an engine or ladder that is in good working order may be a stretch. It is time to limit expenses unless absolutely neccessary both in GOVERNMENT and Emergency Services by consolidation. No One is saying that we need all paid departments everywhere but their are communities who certainly could benefit from it.

[Bnechis 3,961]

"Most of these rigs though old in age are in pristine condition"

Just because they look good, because they are clean and pretty, does not mean they are safe, based on the current standards.

Not having modern breaking, traction control and stability control is not worth the liability and the potential financial loss (& life loss), particularly if the rig no longer meets the standards that will be used against the dept. in the courts.

[IFCO3080 26]

"Not having modern breaking, traction control and stability control is not worth the liability and the potential financial loss (& life loss), particularly if the rig no longer meets the standards that will be used against the dept. in the courts."

What are the modern breaking systems that you are talking about? Also ive seen most of the newer rigs going out of service due to electrical or error codes showing up on the new modern ABS/Traction control that come on these rigs. When it works it is great but when it doesn't work because a 5 dollar sensor than you'll have problems.

[x635 4,066]

If Elmsford has a mid-mount tower ladder out to bid, where are they going to fit it? Elmsford House is pretty tight as it is, and I don't see them wanting to store it at Live Oak? But then, with the bucket overhang on a rear mount TL, is the length of a mid mount about the same as a rear mount?

[recoiloperated 16]

"Not having modern breaking, traction control and stability control is not worth the liability and the potential financial loss (& life loss), particularly if the rig no longer meets the standards that will be used against the dept. in the courts."

What are the modern breaking systems that you are talking about? Also ive seen most of the newer rigs going out of service due to electrical or error codes showing up on the new modern ABS/Traction control that come on these rigs. When it works it is great but when it doesn't work because a 5 dollar sensor than you'll have problems.

Modern systems like discs instead of drums, ABS, brake-based stability control to prevent rollovers, etc. While I'm all for the KISS principle when it comes to vehicle systems, you ignore new "standards" of safety at your own peril. As Bnechis mentioned it's really about what will hold up in court. When your fire chief is on the stand because your department's 1984 Mack slid through a stop sign and killed someone how are they going to explain that you don't have trucks with ABS because older is better and those new systems are too finicky and don't work sometimes?

[Spartan052 43]

buchanan engine 160 1991 pierce

engine 161 1998 sutphen

Verplanck engine 126 1991 pierce

[wmetech 2]

Bedford Hills:

E 198 - 1997 Pierce (Contract recently signed for replacement)

MA 9 - 1988 International

R 10 - 1995 International

Bedford:

E 110 - 1987 Seagrave

MA 7 - 1984 GMC

[GR442 18]

Add Millwood

Engine 247 -- 1998 Spartan / 3D

Tanker 15 -- 1994 3D / Kenworth

Rescue 36 -- 1990 Salsbbury

[Bnechis 3,961]

Ok so now we are up to $26.2 million and we are not including any equipment on these rigs, or the insurance, maintenance, fuel or the cost to house them. Now if they were all getting on the road every time there was a call with sufficient (and trained) staffing then we could justify this because we would be providing a great service. But if they sit there and never get out, why are we spending ourselves into the ground?

This represents 27 departments, out of 59. So I would bet there are a lot more rigs to go. Good thing our taxpayers are supporting the good folks who have low taxes in Appleton, Ocala, Snyder, Clintonville, Baton Rouge, etc......

Edited December 11, 2013 by Bnechis

[Remember585 815]

Did I read somewhere that apparatus are permitted to be front-line for 25 years, not 20?

[mfc2257 464]

Just for fun I'll bite and add to the insanity...

Millwood R36 - 1990 Ford L8000/Saulsbury Walk In Rescue (MFC website lists it as a L9000 but it's a L8000)

Millwood T15 - 1994 Kenworth/3D Metals 1500gpm 3600 gal Pumper/Tanker (MFC website lists it as 3000gal tank but I'm nearly positive its 3600)

Millwood E247 - 1998 Spartan/3D Metals 1000gpm CAFS 500gal Rescue Pumper (MFC website lists it as a 750gal tank but its 500)

What's that add Barry.... $1.75mm to the conversation?

[Ladder44 73]

Hastings-on-Hudson E-44 is a 1991 Pierce

Open cab none the less

[Bnechis 3,961]

Yes NFPA 1901 allows 25 years, but must have a safety upgrade at 15. The cost of the upgrade most likely means its cheaper to sell the rig and replace.

[Morningjoe 162]

I'll throw battalion 17 into the mix...

Continental Village:

Engine 231 - 1998

Rescue 39 - 1994

Millwood:

Engine 247 - 1998

Rescue 36 - 1990

Tanker 15 - 1994

Lake Mohegan:

Engine 253 '94 Freightliner Allegheny

Engine 254 '94 Freightliner Allegheny

Engine 255 '92 Pemfab Allegheny (replacement committee is active)

Ladder 10 '96 Spartan Smeal

Yorktown:

Engine 271 - 1996 KME

Tanker 14 - 1994 Semo

Rescue 55 (Water rescue) - 1990/2009 interior upgrade Chevy / union (old snap on tool truck)