Mutual Aid In Westchester - Proper Use?

[x635 4,066]

There have been a lot of house fires in Westchester over the past couple of months, several of which included single family wood frame residential dwellings that were evacuated.

Each fire turns into a major incident with numerous departments requested for mutual aid. If the structure, in this case, single family wood frame residential dwelling is evacuated, and it's not posing a threat to other structures, why do departments need such extensive mutual aid, often stripping resources from other communities, especially in the daytime, where manpower is hard to come by.

As for brush fires, they also turn into major incidents. As I mentioned in another thread, I really think brush fire training and equipment is lacking. Some brush fires are OK to let burn, and doing so eliminates possible future brush fires. And the use of CAFS, which was developed initially for brush fires, really helps to extinguish the fire with less water and more penetration. I think it's time to look at a brush fire task force concept, so we have the proper equipment and trained personnel responding. Using numerous departments to dump water on the fire is a waste.

Mutual aid should be for major incidents. If you're going to have the same departments respond on every fire you have, then why not just merge and become one department, especially if you can't accomplish the tasks with one another?

The post above is just my opinion, AND IS NOT IN REFERENCE TO ANY ONE PARTICULAR INCIDENT, rather several various incidents.

[RES24CUE 168]

X635 Well said...

I, as part of the volunteer community, constantly hear people saying, "Call them early, you can always send them back." To me, this seems like an excuse for not having a competent commanding officer who can respond quickly and make the correct decision as far as the necessary mutual aid for that particular situation. This rationale is a counterbalance for inexperienced and poorly trained ICs. Anyone can wear a white helmet and call the whole county and then start returning units once they are confident that they have the situation under control. This is a crutch for people who are not confident in their abilities (or lack there of). What happened to the day and age when you had salty fire chiefs who took pride in actually knowing what they are doing? Instead, modern day chiefs have no training beyond Firefighter 1(I understand that some fire departments have extensive training requirements for chief and I commend them for that) and getting a white helmet is their reward for responding to the most automatic alarms over that past few years and being an "agreeable" officer who strokes everyones ego and wins the popularity contest that is our electoral promotional exam. (Ever hear the term "paper chief").

Additionally, in todays world, more and more mutual aid units are being called because chiefs and officers never know whether they are going to get an engine with 2 firefighters on it or a mutual aid chief rolling solo hoping that a few of his guys are going to take their POVs to the fire so that he and his department don't look like a shitshow. I know that there is a standard set forth by the county that you must have a minimum of 5 interior firefighters to respond mutual aid. However, this standard is loosely followed as many departments respond shorthanded knowing that they will most likely be returned, sent to a water source, or re-directed to stand-by because the mutual aid chief is "calling them early, because he can always send them back" and they don't want to tarnish the good name of their organization by having to state over the radio that they are unable to staff an engine for a working fire time and time again. I personally have been at fires and seen engines show up with just a chauffeur, or only a few junior members/fire police along for the ride. These crews will do a lot of good when they are needed to pull a line to the attic huh?

[Critic 0]

It seems like a big party at these fires nowadays and departments invite their friends....then these people and departments go onto Facebook afterwards and brag about how much mutual aid there was and what a battle it was. What they are saying is that they really don't care about someone's life being burnt away, and they are proud that one or two departments can't handle what is essentially a simple fire without having to call in a ridiculous amount of help. I recall a fire whether Chief actually said he had 150 firefighters on scene of a fully involved raised ranch in defensive operation! How is that possible?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

It seems like a big party at these fires nowadays and departments invite their friends....then these people and departments go onto Facebook afterwards and brag about how much mutual aid there was and what a battle it was. What they are saying is that they really don't care about someone's life being burnt away, and they are proud that one or two departments can't handle what is essentially a simple fire without having to call in a ridiculous amount of help. I recall a fire whether Chief actually said he had 150 firefighters on scene of a fully involved raised ranch in defensive operation! How is that possible?

I guess your not a firefighter. Unfortunately firefighters refer to a "good job" large fire, all the time and brag about how many workers a department/company responds to in the course of a year. From NY City to Seattle and all points in between. There is a fire service magazine Firehouse that does an annual "run" survey in which it lists the number of alarms a department/company responds to during the year. The more "runs" the more bragging rights. So in a way we all glamorize and promote someone else's pain and loss. The departments/companies with the most "destruction" are the ones we all want to run with. Not saying this is right, but it is a part of the firehouse culture. It's said that the best firehouse would be the one that gets no alarms. This means a safe community with 0 dollars fire damage.

As far as 150 firefighters at a raised ranch house, this all depends on the size of the home. There are some very big raised ranch homes. A large ranch that has gone to a defensive operation may be a very manpower intensive operation when all is said and done. (long hose stretches and packing, exposure problems/brand patrol, over haul, relief crews, 1 bottle and done) Another thing about Chiefs giving numbers on manpower at alarms, they usually always go over the actual number if they are not prepared and have done an actual personnel count. But that means a good accountability officer and system in place. A topic for another day.

[v85 212]

Also, I wonder what that 150 number includes? Not only the relief crews and things like that, but I'm willing to bet that number includes safety officers, staging area managers, fire police, cause and origin team, department photographers, fire department run EMS, and a bunch of other people wearing turnout gear or some other uniform saying "Fire Department" on it, regardless if they are actually performing a suppression function

Edited December 1, 2013 by v85

[SECTMB 612]

I believe in the volunteer arena that most mutual aid is necessary because the first due department is, initially or subsequently, unable to guarantee a response with the appropriate apparatus and manpower necessary for suppression.

I believe IC's are quick to request mutual aid because as their own department is assembling and responding they will not know what resources are available until they arrive on scene. We may know by radio traffic that Engine X is responding but we don't necessarily know how many persons are on the apparatus or their individual qualifications. These days, while Dept. 'A' may have three engines and a ladder, there is no guarantee that the IC will get three fully staffed engines and a ladder from his own department. Hence, request early, return early.

While the head count at the end of the incident may be large, and at that point seem excessive, it might have been minimal at the outset of the incident. With volunteer departments, day and time of day, are critical factors to the IC as he formulates his strategy, sometimes even prior to arrival based on follow up radio information coming in through the dispatch center.

Who would like to be the IC criticized for not having the necessary resources on scene in a timely manner?