Restrictions on Training

[v85 212]

So I understand that many of us on here think that the gap in training between the career and volunteer firefighters should be lessened or eliminated. Unfortunately that is hard to do when you are dealing with situations like what I saw when I was down in Maryland.

In my county, volunteer and career firefighters received exactly the same training. However in a neighboring county that was not the case. There the use of things like the flashover simulator were restricted to career firefighters only as it was deemed "too intense" for volunteers.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. There is no difference in intensity in the real fires faced by volunteer and career firefighters, so they should get equal training. But I guess that is what happens when you have some three-piece suit in an insurance company corporate office hundreds of miles away making decisions about emergency services

[FFPCogs 863]

For what it's worth here's my $.02

You're right it doesn't make any sense. It's up to the volunteers to demand better training and the closure of loopholes which allow different standards. It's up to fire the service to develop the means by which that training is achievable by all.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Not even close to the dumbest arbitrary restriction on training that I've ever heard, but it probably makes the top ten.

This kind of stuff is inexcusable, and no sensible training officer would prohibit his/her members from trying to better themselves and their crew, provided they have the necessary prerequisite training.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. But I guess that is what happens when you have some three-piece suit in an insurance company corporate office hundreds of miles away making decisions about emergency services

You are correct it makes no sense.

Now, care to explain what you meant by this with insurance companies?

[v85 212]

Because the way it was made to seem to me, the restriction was put on because of liability reasons. That usually means that someone either an insurance company or a lawyer is behind the scenes telling them that

[Bnechis 3,961]

Because the way it was made to seem to me, the restriction was put on because of liability reasons. That usually means that someone either an insurance company or a lawyer is behind the scenes telling them that

Or the third option is they wanted to do it and that's the excuse they used. If the members have the same training level, how can there be more liability with one group than the other?

[ex-commish 490]

"In my county, volunteer and career firefighters received exactly the same training. However in a neighboring county that was not the case. There the use of things like the flashover simulator were restricted to career firefighters only as it was deemed "too intense" for volunteers."

Could it be the lack of training volunteers recieve in that county is the reason that they are banned from the simulator? Perhaps they didn't meet a certain prerequisite.

Edited November 19, 2013 by firemoose827
fixed quotes

[v85 212]

I think I meant to say that all of the initial entry-level training was the same for career and volunteer

[firemoose827 324]

Could it be the lack of training volunteers recieve in that county is the reason that they are banned from the simulator? Perhaps they didn't meet a certain prerequisite.

I think I meant to say that all of the initial entry-level training was the same for career and volunteer

I see what HFD219 is saying, if the level of training the volunteers have is lower then the career, then I see why they would not let them kill- I MEAN use the simulator and end up getting hurt or worse.

If the initial training levels are the same, then yes, both should use it.

Another question is; Who owns the simulator? The county? The career department? I see what they are doing is necessary to keep less trained people from hurting themselves, until like you. myself and so many other volunteers want to see happen, the training standards become the same across the board for both. THEN I see no issue with either using the simulators. If you dont know what to look for, or what to do, than how can you safely use the training aids provided? I wouldnt even let MOST of my FF's go into any simulator until they get their training squared away and take FF1, FF Survival, and maybe FF2.

Stay Safe

[v85 212]

I understand that, my point is that if the level of training is so low they would be killed using a simulator, should they be allowed into live fire conditions on real calls? The answer should be no, but...

Edited November 19, 2013 by v85

[FD123FD 5]

I honestly have never heard something so obserd. The minimum training you need to participate in the Flash Over Training is Firefighter I OR Basic Firefighter and Intermediate Firefighter OR Firefighting Essentials and Fire Attack. (the Chief must also sign and "Authorization Letter" which attests that they have a firefighter physical and comply with OSHA 1910.134). I know of multiple volunteer departments that participate in the flashover training in Rockland County and also multiple departments that participate in the in the NYSAFC Flashover training when their simulator tours New York State. NYS has some of the best fire instructors out there (and I am not just talking about OFPC Instructors). To say that the training is to dangerous for the volunteers just doesn't make sense. Was this training just set up for the career staff? What is the word from the horses mouth?

I have never heard of an insurance company not pushing training for those that they insure. I have always seen the complete opposite. If a department is not recieving training someone needs to start stepping up to the plate to ensure their firefighter start recieving the needed training.

This may sound a little harsh, but "Volunteering as a Firefighter" only really means that you are doing the job for free. You volunteered to join one of the most professional orginizations and careers in the workforce. Once your accepted its time to do a job!! You have made the comitment and you need to put forth the effort to show up at training and ask for more training. The Officers, from the Lt's to the Chief's need to put forth the effort to ensure that they can send their firefighters to all training available. The more training you attend, the better the firefighter you hopefully become. The better firefighter you become the better the service you are now offering to your customer (the Village, Town or District you protect).