Hoboken volunteer EMT stabbed in stomach while on a call

[x635 4,066]

A Hoboken emergency medical technician was stabbed in the stomach this afternoon while responding to a call, sources with knowledge of the incident said tonight.

................It is believed that the initial call for an ambulance from the Hoboken location may have been a hoax, since person who requested an ambulance never called for another one, a source said.

Full article: http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/11/hoboken_volunteer_emt_stabbed_in_stomach_while_on_a_call.html

[x635 4,066]

These idiots should be nice to these EMT/Paramedics. They are Volunteer! Wishes for a speedy recovery.

It doesn't matter to a person with an intent to stab someone if they are career or volunteer, nor does it matter. EMS personnel are equal opportunity victims.

[67R93 5]

Apologies in a advance if this starts a battle......Not that being armed would have made a difference because we certainly wouldn't enter a scene with weapons drawn, but, I think we are in a time where EMS, and even fire personnel should be allowed to conceal carry if they wish to do so. Of course all appropriate legal measures would have to be taken and a safety class should be taken before an employer would allow such a circumstance. But I know, EMS is EMS, PD is PD etc etc. But, people are crazy, and PD don't always respond to EMS calls.

[AntMan 16]

One EMT Should be able to concealed carry

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Apologies in a advance if this starts a battle......Not that being armed would have made a difference because we certainly wouldn't enter a scene with weapons drawn, but, I think we are in a time where EMS, and even fire personnel should be allowed to conceal carry if they wish to do so. Of course all appropriate legal measures would have to be taken and a safety class should be taken before an employer would allow such a circumstance. But I know, EMS is EMS, PD is PD etc etc. But, people are crazy, and PD don't always respond to EMS calls.

Nope

One EMT Should be able to concealed carry

Nope

[AntMan 16]

Nope

Nope

What do you mean Nope? If they take the NRA Safety course and qualify to Concealed Carry then they should be able too... Concealed carry meaning it's taken out when IT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN OUT... How much longer are we gonna sit here and let EMS Personnel be stabbed,shot and beaten and jumped..

[calhobs 110]

What do you mean Nope? If they take the NRA Safety course and qualify to Concealed Carry then they should be able too... Concealed carry meaning it's taken out when IT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN OUT... How much longer are we gonna sit here and let EMS Personnel be stabbed,shot and beaten and JUMPED

Don't forget the Mail Man, also Crossing Guards and Teachers. Teachers are getting assaulted all the time. Then again thinking about it lets arm the students also because the more we arm them the less chance they will get assaulted. Now, think how stupid this is and when you come up with your answer, apply it to arming EMTs and Fire Fighters.

Edited November 9, 2013 by calhobs

[AntMan 16]

Don't forget the Mail Man, also Crossing Guards and Teachers. Teachers are getting assaulted all the time. Then again thinking about it lets arm the students also because the more we arm them the less chance they will get assaulted. Now, think how stupid this is and when you come up with your answer, apply it to arming EMTs and Fire Fighters.

I'd rather have one armed EMT then two helpless EMT'S That have to wait for Police or plead for the people to stop as they beat them... Maybe you're just anti-gun or have a liberal hard on.. But ARMED EMTS=LESS TIMES BEING ASSAULTED... Pretty sure no one is going to assault you when you pull out a handgun unless you're just good ole stupid.

[x635 4,066]

I'd rather have one armed EMT then two helpless EMT'S That have to wait for Police or plead for the people to stop as they beat them... Maybe you're just anti-gun or have a liberal hard on.. But ARMED EMTS=LESS TIMES BEING ASSAULTED... Pretty sure no one is going to assault you when you pull out a handgun unless you're just good ole stupid.

Have you worked as an EMT in an urban area, are you trained as an EMT, or even been to EMS calls without FD or PD there?

What basis or experience do you have to make you assert your opinion so strongly, and even go as far as to insult another member's opinion just because they don't agree with you?

[AntMan 16]

Have you worked as an EMT in an urban area, are you trained as an EMT, or even been to EMS calls without FD or PD there?

What basis or experience do you have to make you assert your opinion so strongly, and even go as far as to insult another member's opinion just because they don't agree with you?

No, I havnt But i know EMT Personnel that HAVE Been Assaulted and have Issued tazers and bulletproof vests. Im not insulting the member, He basically insulted me by saying that I dont know what Im talking about... Im not going to fight about this but IMO More Armed EMTS=Less assaults.......

[x635 4,066]

No, I havnt But i know EMT Personnel that HAVE Been Assaulted and have Issued tazers and bulletproof vests. Im not insulting the member, He basically insulted me by saying that I dont know what Im talking about... Im not going to fight about this but IMO More Armed EMTS=Less assaults.......

So you know EMS Providers that have been assaulted multiple times and deadly force was needed every time? It's just my opinion, but when you make such a bold, blanket statement like you did, you need some firsthand training and experience to back it up.

You are welcome to your opinion, but assaults on EMS personnel is not that much of an issue where a weapon would be required. Most EMS personnel are trained and experienced with scene safety, and are good at AVOIDING situations where they can be harmed using a variety of methods. And, 99% of the time, PD is there to have our backs when we need them. Take into account a lot of patients don't even conciously know what they are doing when they assault EMS.

Are you going to use deadly force and shoot the diabetic patient, wrestle to get some Glucagon into him, or retreat and await PD? What makes the most sense?

[ex-commish 490]

I'd rather have one armed EMT then two helpless EMT'S That have to wait for Police or plead for the people to stop as they beat them... Maybe you're just anti-gun or have a liberal hard on.. But ARMED EMTS=LESS TIMES BEING ASSAULTED... Pretty sure no one is going to assault you when you pull out a handgun unless you're just good ole stupid.

For the record I am a 2nd amendment supporter..that being said I don't agree with arming emt's for the simple reason you are adding liability on any call you go on and increase the chance of the patient who could be an EDP to grab your gun and pump rounds into you or your partner or anywhere else. Also I don't think any company or agency would want to have that liability. As far as more guns, less assaults make your case.

[AntMan 16]

So you know EMS Providers that have been assaulted multiple times and deadly force was needed every time? It's just my opinion, but when you make such a bold, blanket statement like you did, you need some firsthand training and experience to back it up.

You are welcome to your opinion, but assaults on EMS personnel is not that much of an issue where a weapon would be required. Most EMS personnel are trained and experienced with scene safety, and are good at AVOIDING situations where they can be harmed using a variety of methods. And, 99% of the time, PD is there to have our backs when we need them. Take into account a lot of patients don't even conciously know what they are doing when they assault EMS.

Are you going to use deadly force and shoot the diabetic patient, wrestle to get some Glucagon into him, or retreat and await PD? What makes the most sense?

If an EDP Were to attack me if I was an EMT And try to kill me, Yes.. I dont care if you're off meds or not.. If you threaten myself or my partners Life I would put you down. No questions asked. Or atleast have EMS Personnel have tazers!! I know some EMS Has department issued tazers...

[67R93 5]

Training training training! I know this would never happen, but "training" would be huge. I simply stated an opinion, hence my apology if this starts a battle. Again, simply my opinion. Proper licensing, safety classes, experience with handguns, etc. When and when not use deadly force. Obviously an EDP off his meds, PD would be dispatched and we stage for them to secure the scene, same goes for a intox, injuries from assault, ya get my drift. A violent diabetic, well, I'm sure we have all dealt with them and KNOW that deadly force is not an option. In my experience, manpower to control the patient is all that was needed until they were stabilized with ALS interventions. As far as PD goes, they need to be there to have your backs if s*** were to hit the fan. One county I work in, PD is advised of a medical call, not dispatched like they are in another county I work in. Trust me, knowing PD is going to be at every Fire/EMS call is great. But there is always that ONE time when something goes horribly wrong and we are by ourselves, with no PD, and we cannot rush out of the scene for some "unexpected" reason and we can do NOTHING about it. Liability, of course there will be more liability, that's why we have training, and only CERTIFIED members/employees would be permitted to carry.

People are nuts these days, who knows why some people are the way they are and why they just snap and do something stupid. Again, just my opinion.

[ex-commish 490]

"Liability, of course there will be more liability, that's why we have training, and only CERTIFIED members/employees would be permitted to carry."

Certified by who?

[calhobs 110]

If an EDP Were to attack me if I was an EMT And try to kill me, Yes.. I dont care if you're off meds or not.. If you threaten myself or my partners Life I would put you down. No questions asked. Or atleast have EMS Personnel have tazers!! I know some EMS Has department issued tazers...

Please state those Agencies.

[STAT213 332]

I've been doing this EMS thing for over 20 years now. I've worked in busy, nasty urban areas, sleepy rural areas and pretty much everything in between. The poster who claims that we need to be armed, and he'd put someone down who was gonna hurt him...wow. Just, wow. With a mindset like that, EMS is NOT for you, pal. If you showed up to work with me, and started with that attitude, I'd drop you off at the next corner and wish you well.

I am a STRONG supporter of the 2nd amendment, and I want no part of having to carry weapons at work. Have I been in fights? Yup. Hairy situations? A few. But looking back, they were mostly avoidable and walking away (or running for that matter) will get you out of trouble you probably never should have been part of in the first place.

Quite frankly, you scare me more than the EDP's do. Put down an EDP? Beacuse they threatened your life? Do you know how many times in a busy urban area EMT's get threatened each year? We both can't count that high.

A few other points: Concealed carry won't stop an assault. They dont know you have it, so it's not a deterent.

Additionally, cops carry a number of tools to repsond to threats of force, or force. They have rules of engagement, force must be met with force. They don't just draw down and waste every person that threatens them. Please, please rethink your approach to EMS.

[AntMan 16]

"Liability, of course there will be more liability, that's why we have training, and only CERTIFIED members/employees would be permitted to carry."

Certified by who?

Certified By An NRA Safety course instructor..... with departments permission........

[AntMan 16]

I've been doing this EMS thing for over 20 years now. I've worked in busy, nasty urban areas, sleepy rural areas and pretty much everything in between. The poster who claims that we need to be armed, and he'd put someone down who was gonna hurt him...wow. Just, wow. With a mindset like that, EMS is NOT for you, pal. If you showed up to work with me, and started with that attitude, I'd drop you off at the next corner and wish you well.

I am a STRONG supporter of the 2nd amendment, and I want no part of having to carry weapons at work. Have I been in fights? Yup. Hairy situations? A few. But looking back, they were mostly avoidable and walking away (or running for that matter) will get you out of trouble you probably never should have been part of in the first place.

Quite frankly, you scare me more than the EDP's do. Put down an EDP? Beacuse they threatened your life? Do you know how many times in a busy urban area EMT's get threatened each year? We both can't count that high.

A few other points: Concealed carry won't stop an assault. They dont know you have it, so it's not a deterent.

Additionally, cops carry a number of tools to repsond to threats of force, or force. They have rules of engagement, force must be met with force. They don't just draw down and waste every person that threatens them. Please, please rethink your approach to EMS.

So in the event that you were to enter a home, and begin to be jumped and beaten... Wouldnt you be glad your partner was armed and able to fend off the attackers... Im not saying to be f****** trigger happy and blow a round off into everyone... Im say use it when you need it..... Obviously they dont know you have it... But when you pull the firearm out and tell them to stop now or you will use force I bet you theyll run or cower away...

[Hudson61 11]

First, my prayers are with the EMT in Hoboken. Not only is there a physical injury, but I am sure emotional injury occurred also.

Next. Wow, a few very passionate posts. Now I do not claim to have all the answers. But I feel before we talk about arming first responders, we should have a logical discussion on scene safety and situational awareness.

When I use to teach out EMT students, in the various testing stations, the first words from the student would be "B.S.I. scene safety" and then deal with the station. No more thought to scene safety. Plus what I have seen in the field is scene safety goes by the wayside after we begin treatment. Scene safety should be a continuous evaluation of the environment that we are working in. Not just about identifying threats and unsafe condition's against us and our crews but also keeping in mind rapid evacuation of the scene should things get sour.

We need to keep our eyes open, be aware of everything around us, do not allow ourselves to get trapped with no way of escape. And if a situation does not feel right, call law enforcement if they are not yet on scene.

Now when it comes to arming first responders, there is a lot of emotion with this question. We must remember that there are very strong opinions on both sides of the idea of arming first responders. We come from different agencies, different regions, and we all have different experiences. The answer will not be solved here, but in honest and factual debate through out the entire emergency service community. What will work for one agency may or may not work for another. I urge all responders to follow their agency's current policies on this subject.

Stay safe every one.

[ex-commish 490]

Certified By An NRA Safety course instructor..... with departments permission........

The NRA course teaches you how to shoot as well as gun safety. I do not believe it teaches you the tactical training that LEO's receive. LEO's are also taught use of force and the justification to use force. At least I know I was and it was repeated every year untill I retired. If I am wrong than please let me know. I also do not believe any agency, wether private or public will want the liability of their emt's or medics carrying firearms. I do not believe giving guns to ems personnel is the answer. Sorry.

[AntMan 16]

The NRA course teaches you how to shoot as well as gun safety. I do not believe it teaches you the tactical training that LEO's receive. LEO's are also taught use of force and the justification to use force. At least I know I was and it was repeated every year untill I retired. If I am wrong than please let me know. I also do not believe any agency, wether private or public will want the liability of their emt's or medics carrying firearms. I do not believe giving guns to ems personnel is the answer. Sorry.

There is an extent of Courses you can take.

[x635 4,066]

There is an extent of Courses you can take.

For EMS providers? Name them.

Also, ever heard of the medical term "First, do no harm"?

[AntMan 16]

For EMS providers? Name them.

Also, ever heard of the medical term "First, do no harm"?

Lol boy oh boy you're getting really upset about this... You take the NRA FIRST Steps course.. Then you take the NRA DEFENSIVE Pistol course... Which teaches almost the same thing as what the Law enforcement is taught... When to use it... How to fend off someone from grabbing it... I'll stand behind an EMT Getting a firearm until im banned from this site or until every department disagrees

[x635 4,066]

Lol boy oh boy you're getting really upset about this... You take the NRA FIRST Steps course.. Then you take the NRA DEFENSIVE Pistol course... Which teaches almost the same thing as what the Law enforcement is taught... When to use it... How to fend off someone from grabbing it... I'll stand behind an EMT Getting a firearm until im banned from this site or until every department disagrees

I think people, including me, are getting upset about this because you don't know what you're talking about and are so aggressive about it. I know arguing with you about this is probably useless and a waste of time, but I'm bored so what the heck.

As mentioned above by other members,the NRA class is NOTHING like what they teach you in the police academy. Police Officers have to regularly train and certify on their weapons. It's a tool of their profession, and the LAST line of defense. You can't just shoot everyone who attempts to assault you, nor will it deter someone from assaulting you. Ever watch "Cops"? Also, take a look back at some of your comments...you are advocating using a weapon offensively!

You need to learn to have an open mind, and listen to others who may have more experience then you, and are actually on the job, and not just "lol" them off. Being that you are at such a young age so closed minded and stubborn as you are presenting this opinion of yours, that scares me. If you're pursuing a career in emergency services, that's going to need to change.

[STAT213 332]

So in the event that you were to enter a home, and begin to be jumped and beaten... Wouldnt you be glad your partner was armed and able to fend off the attackers... Im not saying to be f****** trigger happy and blow a round off into everyone... Im say use it when you need it..... Obviously they dont know you have it... But when you pull the firearm out and tell them to stop now or you will use force I bet you theyll run or cower away...

No. I don't want my partner armed. ESPECIALLY if that partner has an attitude like yours. The NRA classes take a weekend. The police academy takes months. They aren't ALMOST anything like each other. Look, I guess you missed the part where I said I've been doing this for more than TWENTY years. This stuff just doesn't happen on any kind of a routine basis. Partners that I've had who carried illictly were the ones who got into trouble, mostly because they ran their mouths, knowing that they had something to fall back on.

Don't get into the situation where you'd need it. Be aware, be smart and leave. Or don't enter in the first place. That's why we have cops on these calls with us.

[AntMan 16]

I think people, including me, are getting upset about this because you don't know what you're talking about and are so aggressive about it. I know arguing with you about this is probably useless and a waste of time, but I'm bored so what the heck.

As mentioned above by other members,the NRA class is NOTHING like what they teach you in the police academy. Police Officers have to regularly train and certify on their weapons. It's a tool of their profession, and the LAST line of defense. You can't just shoot everyone who attempts to assault you, nor will it deter someone from assaulting you. Ever watch "Cops"? Also, take a look back at some of your comments...you are advocating using a weapon offensively!

You need to learn to have an open mind, and listen to others who may have more experience then you, and are actually on the job, and not just "lol" them off. Being that you are at such a young age so closed minded and stubborn as you are presenting this opinion of yours, that scares me. If you're pursuing a career in emergency services, that's going to need to change.

Advocating a weapon offensively? I have been shooting and been around firearms since a young age... If you knew anything about classes you would know that the NRA "FIRST" Steps firearm class takes a weekend... The DEFENSIVE Shooting class takes about 1-2 months depending on your instructor... Your instructor will generally be an Agent or Active Police Officer. Im not stubborn, or closed minded. I am standing up for what i believe in just as you are standing up for what you believe in.. You believe EMS Shouldn't Have FireArms... and I do.. How is that stubborn or closed Minded... Lmao

[AntMan 16]

No. I don't want my partner armed. ESPECIALLY if that partner has an attitude like yours. The NRA classes take a weekend. The police academy takes months. They aren't ALMOST anything like each other. Look, I guess you missed the part where I said I've been doing this for more than TWENTY years. This stuff just doesn't happen on any kind of a routine basis. Partners that I've had who carried illictly were the ones who got into trouble, mostly because they ran their mouths, knowing that they had something to fall back on.

Don't get into the situation where you'd need it. Be aware, be smart and leave. Or don't enter in the first place. That's why we have cops on these calls with us.

Im not saying that a rural community with a low crime rate should have a firearm on board... Im saying areas of high crime rate and bad areas.... Dont assume things...

[STAT213 332]

What exactly caused you to decide that I was talking about rural areas? You say don't assume, but do just that.

Antman, listen to the counsel of those senior to you.

You wonder why we found your post scary, and taking an offensive posture? You said if an EDP threatened you or your partner, you wouldn't hesitate to put them down. That is a very offensive posture. I've had more "EDPs" threaten me than I can count. Haven't wanted to shoot any of 'em. In fact, I cannot recall a situation in my career where I can say a firearm would have made me feel better about doing my job, or a situation where I could have said...damn I wish I had a handgun I could've used today.

[BFD1054 1,552]

Im not saying that a rural community with a low crime rate should have a firearm on board... Im saying areas of high crime rate and bad areas.... Dont assume things...

So, you're ASSUMING that crime isn't committed in rural areas?

Look I am very pro 2nd amendment and exercise my right to carry almost daily. However, I have to agree with many of the members here and say that firearms do not belong on ambulances.

When I rode EMS, there were several LEO's that I rode with who would conceal carry while riding the ambulance. Never once did it make me feel any safer. But you know what did? My training, experience, good scene size-up and knowing the PD was there or could be in seconds.

As others have said, many times your best line of defense is a good offense and using your brain. If you can walk (or run) from a potentially bad situation, then you should do so. That goes beyond working in emergency services.

I will chalk up your attitude and thoughts to your young age and inexperience. As you progress in emergency services, I think you'll change your views a bit.

Pay attention and take the advise of senior men and women and stay safe.