Fire Chiefs

[hudson144 150]

What's the difference between a civil service Fire Chief and a Fire Chief appointed by a Mayor, board of commissioners, town board etc? What are the rules and guidelines?

[capt2102 64]

Jodi: I believe an appointed spot is just that; someone can remove you and appointe someone else "at will". I believe once you have passed the civil service test they have to file an Article 78 charge and have a " trial" to remove you.

However: Chief's are like what I said to my 4th grade math teacher. She asked me " Thomas, what's the difference between 2/3 and 3/8? I said " That's what I say teacher; what's the FU--ING difference?" Stay safe.

[FirNaTine 370]

There's a big difference. One is a Puppet and will do as the Mayor says or else(Appointed) and the other(Civil Service) has more liberty to speak his mind and stick up for his men. Ill take the latter of the two, not the $ucking Lacky "Yes Man"! FD's should end this Policy it does more Harm then Good! Make it Civil Service and give it to highest scoring individual. Enough of this B/S already!

[ttomcap 18]

Even if you're civil service and pass the chiefs test you are still appointed by the Board of trustees and the Mayor. A volunteer can also be appointed chief. Civil service appointment on volunteer, There are good chiefs and bad chiefs.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Even if you're civil service and pass the chiefs test you are still appointed by the Board of trustees and the Mayor.

Yes but once they complete their probation (usually 1 year) the mayor/board usually can not demote or fire the civil service chief.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Make it Civil Service and give it to highest scoring individual. Enough of this B/S already!

For the Chief (not DC's, AC's or BC's) they generally do not maintain a list, so the indivudual who is promoted is provisional and only has to past the test, since they take it alone they are the highest and the lowest.

[FirNaTine 370]

For the Chief (not DC's, AC's or BC's) they generally do not maintain a list, so the indivudual who is promoted is provisional and only has to past the test, since they take it alone they are the highest and the lowest.

Depends on the Municipality I believe Barry. Im almost positive many yrs ago my Dept. use to have a separate Civil Service Exam for "Chief of the Dept." that all DCs would take. Now it's a handpicked Job by the Mayor.

[sympathomedic 383]

Not sure it applies but about 25 years ago a lower Westchester Town Board disliked the Police Chief, so they established a Police Commissioner spot and gave that guy all the old Chiefs responsibilities. The old Chief hung around 8-4 M-F until he retired. Given the highly archaic state of the laws, I have no idea if the same thing could be done to a fire chief.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Not sure it applies but about 25 years ago a lower Westchester Town Board disliked the Police Chief, so they established a Police Commissioner spot and gave that guy all the old Chiefs responsibilities. The old Chief hung around 8-4 M-F until he retired. Given the highly archaic state of the laws, I have no idea if the same thing could be done to a fire chief.

Sort of. Its harder to do it now for PD or Fd unless timed well, because paying 2 to go the job of 1 does not sit well with the voters (compared to years past). Their is a state requirement for a fire chief (to determine the cause of all fires) but communities with fire commissioners in charge (not fire districts) have used a DC or AC as chief of operations to get around that one.

[wraftery 1,275]

Over the years, I have seen many appointments to the position of Chief that have left all the "rules" back in the dust. I have seen a department give an internal promotion test then not like the top 3. They then threw out that list and gave an open-competitive test. Not liking that list, they brought one of their Assistant Chiefs out of retirement (long after the come back period had expired) and made him Chief. They gave him a pass/fail individual test which I believe he failed. The game was not over though. He gets 3 chances to pass the test and if he test is only given once every 4 years, he can stretch this out for a long time.

Barry, I know you are good at the letter of the rules, but this is one interpretation you won't find. The State Civil Service Commission told me in their official hearing "the Department bruised the system but didn't break it."

[16fire5 693]

There's a big difference. One is a Puppet and will do as the Mayor says or else(Appointed) and the other(Civil Service) has more liberty to speak his mind and stick up for his men. Ill take the latter of the two, not the $ucking Lacky "Yes Man"! FD's should end this Policy it does more Harm then Good! Make it Civil Service and give it to highest scoring individual. Enough of this B/S already!

I think that depends on the individual. Some take the job and work very hard to do what is right and go down trying. Others sell their soul to get the top job.

[Lucifer 6]

The NYS Constitution is written to prevent the old "Boss" Tweed type of government in the Tammany Hall days of NYC when the political appointments were based on patronage and graft, see excerpt below:

"The Civil service Law and rules and regulations promulgated there under implement the mandate of the NYS Constitution, Article V, section 6, which provides that: Appointments and promotions in the civil service of the state and all of the divisions thereof, including cities and villages, shall be made according to merit and fitness to be ascertained, as far as practicable, by examination which, as far as practicable, shall be competitive,..."

So what happened? How is it that anyone can be "appointed" as a Chief?

[Dinosaur 844]

There's a big difference. One is a Puppet and will do as the Mayor says or else(Appointed) and the other(Civil Service) has more liberty to speak his mind and stick up for his men. Ill take the latter of the two, not the $ucking Lacky "Yes Man"! FD's should end this Policy it does more Harm then Good! Make it Civil Service and give it to highest scoring individual. Enough of this B/S already!

That's not quite true. Even a civil service chief is accountable to the elected officials who approve their budget and other things under the municipal charter. Some may be more outspoken than others but they all still have a boss.

As for appointed ones, they're not all puppets.

[ttomcap 18]

That's not quite true. Even a civil service chief is accountable to the elected officials who approve their budget and other things under the municipal charter. Some may be more outspoken than others but they all still have a boss.

As for appointed ones, they're not all puppets.

[ttomcap 18]

All Chiefs are appointed and serve at the disgression of the Board. They can get anyone they want to be Chief by making the requirements fit. They made a fire fighter Chief over all the Captains and the Assistant Chief in my village.

[FirNaTine 370]

All Chiefs are appointed and serve at the disgression of the Board. They can get anyone they want to be Chief by making the requirements fit. They made a fire fighter Chief over all the Captains and the Assistant Chief in my village.

/ Dept. Mechanic!