Not good for Public Perception

[dashield 61]

I want to preface this post with the fact that I have been in the fire service for 17 years both Vollie and Career so please don't interpret this as Vollie bashing... I just think the volunteer chief officers have to be a little more conscious about where they bring their District Vehicle.

Yesterday while shopping at the Woodbury Commons with the family I stumbled upon a Chief's vehicle from Jerico, NY. The first thing I thought of was "typical Long Island again", but then I tried to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say he was probably coming back from Montour Falls (even though no classes ended yesterday).

Whatever the reason was that brought him 90 minutes outside his district....it does nothing for the public perception of the "Extravagant Long Island Fire Departments" to have your vehicle sitting in the Woodbury Commons parking lot.

Edited October 31, 2013 by dashield

[foreman1923 22]

My department has a policy in place restricting use of chiefs car to no more then 16 miles out of district for non firematic activities, pain in the butt? yes, Necessary? very big yes

[gamewell45 258]

We cannot discount the possiblity that it may have been there for some other sanctioned department/district business. Unless someone actually approached the operator of the vehicle and asked questions, there could be a million explanations that we don't know about.

[kinkchaser 352]

The beauty of unmarked take home cars, only the most astute buffs recognize these vehicles.

[JetPhoto 626]

Unless it was a stop on the way to the NY Association of Fire Districts meeting up in Ellenville @ the Haven Resort Thurs. - Sat.I don't see a big issue if that was the case but now sell that to the public.

(May have wanted to get up there early so he/she could do what ever class this morning)

Just my guess

[ex-commish 490]

Perhaps he was on his way to the commissioners conference in Ellenville

[50-65 205]

There is enough waste of taxpayer resources in my own district to be worried about someone 100 miles away.

[efd184 59]

Ok so are you really all going to make excuses??? He was f---king shopping!!!!!!

Stop acting like he wasn't. He used the car and the gas to go shopping g and even if he went to some conference it doesn't say get off thruway to hit the outlets!!!!!

Stop with the excuses!!!!!!

Edited November 1, 2013 by efd184

[ex-commish 490]

Not making excuses...just an observation. If you are really concerned than call the department and ask why he was there.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

Ok so are you really all going to make excuses??? He was f---king shopping!!!!!!

Stop acting like he wasn't. He used the car and the gas to go shopping g and even if he went to some conference it doesn't say get off thruway to hit the outlets!!!!!

Stop with the excuses!!!!!!

was there a parade or something going on?but honest its a waste realy makes it bad for the fd.

[JetPhoto 626]

Woodbury outlets are right off the thruway, it's not like he/she drove 25, 50, 100 miles out of the way. I'm not bitching about 5 extra miles I've seen it wasted on worse. THAT'S IF it was along the way to the Commissioners conference.

[EMT111 149]

While we don't know what's going on in this particular instance, I will say that I've seen chiefs cars/ EMS command vehicles being left at commuter park and rides or at offices where it's clear the operator is not their and isn't going to take the vehicle to an emergency if on arises.

[bigrig77 95]

I need to know.. Does anyone actually think the public care about this when they see it? We all see it because we are on the job and notice it. I bet if you asked anyone in a parking lot when we come across these vehicles, they would A. have no clue where the Town is in the state and B. Not really care. Now i am not talking about just this one instance. I am talking about any time it happens. The public do not care until it is a big deal (ie. a accident or something). John Q public is going to be more worried about his shopping, getting to work, (why aren't my darn kids here where i said i would pick them up) then even care about this. Plus nothing will ever happen to change it. You can make rules that you cant go out of town with it but so what. What if he needs to go see a few chiefs or need to make a pick up somewhere of some gear, is he going to check in with mommy to ask if he can leave the block? Exactly. He is the chief, he is the boss. you might not like it but he has the authority to go where he wants. If on the other hand he takes a apparatus then ya we need to know every mile you are gonna take.

Now let the man shop and stop stirring up a ruckus.

Edited November 1, 2013 by bigrig77

[FFPCogs 863]

I don't know, nor do I care, what this Chief was doing, that business is between him, his Department and those who foot the bill. But what should be clear to everyone by now is that we are ALL under scrutiny...everyday, everywhere, anytime, any place. Whether it's driving dept vehicles or simply wearing FD apparel think before you act...or speak. A moment of carelessness and you just might find yourself plastered all over Youtube, and the fodder for forums like this...or worse still, in the unemployment line on the evening news trying to explain yourself.

Edited November 1, 2013 by FFPCogs

[10512 214]

FFPCogs wrote:

"that business is between him, his Department and those who foot the bill."

This is exactly what the point is here.

Those who foot the bill are the taxpayers.

If anyone has been paying even a minimum of attention to press reports over the past few years, they will remember reports questioning spending and activities by Volunteer Departments. All that is needed is one or two Jericho taxpayers seeing that rig and asking a few questions of the right reporter on a slow newsday, and this Chief, the President and the Treasurer of that department will find reporters at his door and some public interest group asking for subpoenas of their records.

It has happened before, and you know what they say about those who ignore history...

Edited November 1, 2013 by 10512

[SageVigiles 1,194]

FFPCogs wrote:

"that business is between him, his Department and those who foot the bill."

This is exactly what the point is here.

Those who foot the bill are the taxpayers.

If anyone has been paying even a minimum of attention to press reports over the past few years, they will remember reports questioning spending and activities by Volunteer Departments. All that is needed is one or two Jericho taxpayers seeing that rig and asking a few questions of the right reporter on a slow newsday, and this Chief, the President and the Treasurer of that department will find reporters at his door and some public interest group asking for subpoenas of their records.

It has happened before, and you know what they say about those who ignore history...

So then call up the Commissioners of Jericho FD and tell them what you saw. I'm seeing a lot of anger and frustration but not a lot of action. If you're really that concerned do something about it. Otherwise whats the point?

[10512 214]

So then call up the Commissioners of Jericho FD and tell them what you saw. I'm seeing a lot of anger and frustration but not a lot of action. If you're really that concerned do something about it. Otherwise whats the point?

I never said I saw it.

I am not calling for action.

I did not start this thread.

I was not complaining.

I am merely pointing out what has happened in the past to other agencies.

The point is some taxpayers may complain about someone driving 90 miles on their dime to go shopping in their vehicle.

Or, they may not complain.

In todays day and age, with social media and camera phones everywhere, it is almost too easy to become a story.

Edited November 1, 2013 by 10512

[SECTMB 612]

Seems to me if a person is willing to put most of their personal life on hold to generally be available 24/7/365 and most likely would participate or intervene in any situtation come upon whether in or outside his/her own district, then the use of a vehicle as a perk is more than justified. Lots of volunteers put in a lot of hours and Chiefs lots more. Lots of police chiefs have department vehicles available to them 24/7 as well although usually unmarked so not as obvious.

If you expect someone to be available 24/7 then you should provide the means for them. If it becomes a pr problem start stripping the command cars of their department name but don't penalize the Chiefs in the name of political correctness.

[Steve Panzella 3]

I grew up on L.I. and my father was a member of a neighboring dept to Jericho. Jericho is a very affluant fire district and department, who recently built a 12 million $ three story headquarters across the street from their existing headquarters. The vehicle in the photo reads Jericho Fire district.. It is a commioners vehicle, not a chiefs car. Unless perhaps used a spare chiefs car, it does not generally respond to alarms. It is merely a commissoners perk, that you see commonly with district commioners on L.I. Some these districts own more than one of these rigs, and others even own one ton dump trucks to plow snow at the stations. Instead of induring the purchase cost and lifetime maintenance costs on a specific commonioners free taxi cab-limo to use to attended a few confernces, the commisioners could maybe use their own vehicles and get re-imbursed for their milage. They way some of these departments operate fiscally gives you alot to look at.

[AntMan 16]

I dont really see an issue with it... As long as theyre not doing something stupid within the car or making the department look bad... Driving out of district isnt a problem to me.

[87D124 37]

WHO CARES? Seriously............FDs in different counties have different rules when it comes to department or district vehicles and how far out of their response area they are permitted to go.

As long as the Chief, Commissioner or whoever has permission to take a vehicle out of the area, then it is not an issue.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The vehicle in the photo reads Jericho Fire district.. It is a commioners vehicle, not a chiefs car.... It is merely a commissoners perk, that you see commonly with district commioners on L.I.

As long as the Chief, Commissioner or whoever has permission to take a vehicle out of the area, then it is not an issue.

If its a fire district commissioners car and not a chiefs car then this information does change the situation. Fire District Commissioners are elected officials who are generally not compensated for their service. This is no different than school district commissioners and town/village board members. In there official capacity they do not respond to calls as they are elected to oversee district policy and finances. While some commissioners put in the time and tremendious effort others make it to the 10-12 3 hour meetings per year and should not be compinsted for this.

If 3 of the 5 commissioners vote to allow them to take the perk then maybe they can legally, but is it ethical or proper?

In the mid 1980's I was at the Concord for the annual State Chiefs show/conference and was shocked to see about 8 white caddy stretch limos with lightbars and gold badge between the doors listing which L.I. Fire Districts Commissioners vehicles they were. Found it amazing that they would need this.

[TRUCK6018 50]

WHO CARES? Seriously............FDs in different counties have different rules when it comes to department or district vehicles and how far out of their response area they are permitted to go.

As long as the Chief, Commissioner or whoever has permission to take a vehicle out of the area, then it is not an issue.

I have to disagree. Just because the governing body is giving permission to use it doesn't make it legal. If the district was to be audited and it was found that it was used in conjunction with non department or district business then it would open up a can of worms as owned and operated with tax payer dollars.

Being it was reported that there was a convention of sorts in Ellenville, then it would be a legitimate expense for it to be in Woodbury as the driver might have needed to get gas as he or she just got off the thruway and this is at the first exit on Route 17.

[INIT915 1,119]

I have to disagree. Just because the governing body is giving permission to use it doesn't make it legal. If the district was to be audited and it was found that it was used in conjunction with non department or district business then it would open up a can of worms as owned and operated with tax payer dollars.

Could you elaborate on the legality question?

[Avon Rob 40]

^Gentlemen,

^{Calm down please There will always be abuses no matter how much we rant & rave. I retired to Monmouth County, NJ several years ago. While at the local Home Depot with the 'honey do' list I parked to a car with official NY plates. The plates read "NYCOM 1". The New York conference of mayors. He was loading in a lawn mower & grass seed. I don't think that we have lower prices here, but it happened, Departments and/or districts set rules & regs, but unless a complaint is observed & reported, nothing will happen.}

[Pagers 197]

Could you elaborate on the legality question?

What's illegal about it is right. There is nothing illegal about it, we don't know the departments rules, we don't know if he was given permission, most of you don't live there so it's not like it's your tax money, we don't know where he is coming from or going to, and all this thread is is personal opinion. Give it up, I have seen Fire Chief cars way up north from departments west or far south and not on any firematic duties and you know what I do... Nothing, Stop saying what it should be because you will never do anything about it.

[87D124 37]

Maybe the fire districts should start purchasing unmarked vehicles for their Chiefs, Officers & Commissioners. A plain solid color vehicle with NY "OFFICIAL" plates would draw less attention when it is taken outside of the fire district/department response area.

It seems to work well for the bosses and detectives of police departments. From large PDs to small town PDs, many of them let their bosses, detectives, K9, crime scene & tactical team members take home their "company cars". One police agency I worked for in the past let the Chief have unlimited personal use of this department owned vehicle. He frequently took his vehicle to Yankee games, casinos in AC and a handful of other non-police business related trips outside of the County & State. There was never any complaints from the taxpayers because nobody knew who the car/SUV belonged to.

[STAT213 332]

Somebody above asked if John Q. Public really cares. I can tell you, yes they do. We are no longer allowed to go to the grocery store or run any kind of errands while on duty. Why, you ask? Because John Q. Public cried. Loud. My LT got written up one day for returning a movie. We were in the store for minutes, and had been on a call just prior in the area. Didn't matter. Someone cried. He got chewed.

So, yes, they are watching and yes, they do care how their dollars and cents are being spent.

[M' Ave 1,466]

That vehicle isn't a perk. It is an emergency vehicle. It doesn't have a license plate, it has a unit identification tag in place of a license plate. It's granted exception from many v/t laws because it's an Emergency Vehicle. An emergency response vehicle for use in Jericho L.I., not shopping at Woodbury Commons.

Look, lets be honest and fair. Chiefs in volunteer fire departments often put in a lot of time. Some departments, those with modest budgets, will simply offer to put a little flashing red light and siren in a chiefs personal car. In districts with the finances, they offer their chiefs a vehicle specifically dedicated to serve in that capacity. I think this is all well and good. Should the chief be able to use that vehicle for personal business? Of course! He's available to operate in his capacity as chief, he should be in the vehicle that is dedicated to that purpose. However, if that person is out of response range and not on department business, he should use his personal vehicle. If that vehicle is a "perk" for elected officials, than it should be properly tagged as such, not given a unofficial plate as the one in the photo has.

The fire service needs to smarten up......and yes, extravagant practices concentrated in L.I. have brought a huge microscope on the volunteer fire service. After all, this is an area with 30x the number of rescue apparatus as operate in a city of 8.5 million people. Has the behavior changed? Who knows, but that picture might lead inquiring minds to think that it hasn't.

[dwcfireman 656]

WHO CARES?

Other than the taxpayers, who wouldn't know the difference of what type of vehicle it is or why it's out of district, the only people who really seem to care are US idiots on EMTB! Everyone who has or has had a take home car has abused the privelidge in some way, shape, or form. Some people take it to the grocery store, others take their kids to soccer practice, and others go to a fancy restaurant in the next county. But, who really cares? The abuse of the take home vehicle, both career and volunteer, has been going on for years, and will continue forever on into the future because the only people who can legally stop it (the taxpayers) aren't going to take the five minutes out of their days to write to the commissioners about the "vehicle" found three counties away! I know some of you here "ovey the rules" of the take home car, but face it, any one that has a free ride is going to use it.

I just find it to be a moot point for us to argue over when we're not the people who can fix it.