Mount Vernon Fatal Fire 10-30-13 Discussion

[v85 212]

The sad part about this, besides a family being ripped apart by politician Russian roulette, is that its ok to put 3 guys on a garage truck to speed through the route and get done by 11:00 to go home and lets leave two guys on a fire truck and take that chance because garbage is more important than peoples lives. Don't be fooled either DPW workers make a good dollar as well. Where can government justify having more men on DPW trucks than fire trucks?

The union president says that its against federal law to operate the way they are, has he called the overseeing agency to act on this. For that matter if it is illegal to operate this way, why is it done and how come nothing is done about it???

I also read in another post that other departments operate like this or with less, how is that possible? Those communities listed or not poor communities either. Just doesn't make sense to me

I think government "justifies" having more men on garbage trucks then fire trucks because the way they think is:

Everyone has garbage, not everyone has fires/emergencies

It's absolute B.S., but it is how they think

[pepa63 0]

buff boy a few years ago the mt Vernon dpw staged a 1day strike over poor working conditions bow tie ernie came to the garage to hear there greivances he got a clear&loud message there actions got them new trucks& other improvement I cant see why as why a clear message is not sent to ernie by walking around city hall informing everyone about the fd's problems I think if all union locals around the vern showed up expressing there anger over mutual aid abuse&low manpower it might work

[Bnechis 3,961]

The union president says that its against federal law to operate the way they are, has he called the overseeing agency to act on this. For that matter if it is illegal to operate this way, why is it done and how come nothing is done about it???

Would love to know what law and federal overseeing agency. I have yet to know of any.

[61MACKBR1 222]

1) The County Executive, What about the Gov. or Obama? NYS is a home rule state and until we realize that that is why are taxes are so high and our services so low it will continue. Until we say that emergency service should not be covered by home rule, then its not the problem or responsibility of anyone beyond the local boarder to establish levels of response.

2) County DPS is a law enforcement agency. If you mean DES (Dept of Emergency Services) their is nothing they can do about it. State law says city's must provide fire protection, but they have never defined to what level or the quality.

3) Maybe he should order DES to take over...oh what its illegal in NYS for counties to run fire departments.

You know I agree with consolidation, but until laws are changed, not much else is going to change.

Barry:

Yes, I agree TOTALLY that the New York State "Home Rule" needs to be ABOLOISHED and allow consolidation of services to have a more "effective" county-wide/run fire service, with no issues on who goes where and ensuring that every location in the county is "adequately" covered. Until such time, more lives and property will be at risk.

Other states in our country have "County Run" FIre/EMS Services (Police too) that effectively serve the public (ie: Baltimore County, MD, Gwineett County, Georgia)

[61MACKBR1 222]

Wrong there...Mt. Vernon once had an excellent fire department. That was when the city cared.

Chief:

Could not have said it any better. Back in the late 1950's and into the 1960's (and very early 1970's), FDMV was considered by many in the county to be one of the Elite Fire Departments in Westchester County. One of my uncles (Bill Durr) was a volunteer in the Mount Vernon FD for many many years. You had Engine 1, Engine 2, Engine 3, Engine 4, Engine 5, Engine 6 (Spare Engine 7), Snorkel 1, Truck 2, Truck 3, Truck 4, Rescue 1, and Foam 1.

Why has the city allowed the department to deteroriate to the level it is today?

[firecapt32 282]

Lets not forget in all of this "Stuff" the fantastic job the Brothers did that night under these extreme circumstances--. rescues were made-- civilians were saved--firefighters put their lives on the line for the citizens of Mt Vernon.

To any firefighter pulling up on a scene and being told that people were trapped in side--chills run up and down your spine--your training kicks into high gear and you go to work doing the best you can. Those firefighters and Officers that night were sworn to protect the citizens of Mount Vernon and they did it to the best of their ability. 2 men 3 men it didn't matter - people were trapped and they went to work, knowing full well that at any time it could be them in trouble...it didn't matter- they did it any way. For that the people of Mt Vernon should be proud of firefighters and Officers of FDMV.

Let politics take its course--it will all shake out--but FDMV did a yeoman's job that night.

Just my thoughts

[x129K 1,393]

Lets not forget in all of this "Stuff" the fantastic job the Brothers did that night under these extreme circumstances--. rescues were made-- civilians were saved--firefighters put their lives on the line for the citizens of Mt Vernon.

To any firefighter pulling up on a scene and being told that people were trapped in side--chills run up and down your spine--your training kicks into high gear and you go to work doing the best you can. Those firefighters and Officers that night were sworn to protect the citizens of Mount Vernon and they did it to the best of their ability. 2 men 3 men it didn't matter - people were trapped and they went to work, knowing full well that at any time it could be them in trouble...it didn't matter- they did it any way. For that the people of Mt Vernon should be proud of firefighters and Officers of FDMV.

Let politics take its course--it will all shake out--but FDMV did a yeoman's job that night.

Just my thoughts

I think that sums up what we, the public safety community, shoudl be focusing on - supporting these poor bastards that, yes, run way understaffed, who got bit. It was just a matter of time, and I bet every one of them knew it. And i can guaran-damn-tee that every member on that scene busted their asses and gave their all. Anyone says otherwise, politician, civillian, etc...aint worth the sweat on the balls of the guys on scene.

It's not just the Vern either...we all know the other jobs this could happen at...any day.

Edited October 31, 2013 by x129K

[gamewell45 258]

Ernie Davis has no clue I don't why he was elected again as mayor

Most voters don't care about the fire department until they need them, then suddenly they get religion.

[tommyguy 104]

Below is an audio link to the radio traffic as this fire was toned out and the first units began to arrive. The audio is on the Lohud site.

The radio traffic shows:

0312 - Initial assignments for heavy smoke in the building.

0316 - Advises Battalion, "We're getting multiple calls including from PD."

0317 - Eng 4 is 10-84 at scene, reports basement fire with heavy smoke/fire condition.

0319 - Battalion reports,"Four people are still inside."

0323 - Primary searches are underway. One line stretched, second line being stretched.

Audio Link

[hudson144 150]

Firecapt- you said it right. The odds were against us from the get go! IMO we did our best and went above and beyond. I'm sure in the long run the investigation that will be conducted would show that . A delay in calling the FD? Maybe- the press is ripping us apart and we who were there all have deep sadness for the family involved. May they all RIP!

[61MACKBR1 222]

Firecapt- you said it right. The odds were against us from the get go! IMO we did our best and went above and beyond. I'm sure in the long run the investigation that will be conducted would show that . A delay in calling the FD? Maybe- the press is ripping us apart and we who were there all have deep sadness for the family involved. May they all RIP!

I would suspect that 100% of the people out there (and especially everyone logged into EMTBravo.net) would say that the members of the FDMV Staff, who responded to this incident, gave it 110% and then some. I would also suspect that every member of the FDMV is saddened that lives were lost.

It is NOT the fault of the members that this tragedy occurred. Better Building Code Enforcement, More Staffing within the FDMV (Cannot have the 5 Engine Companies {with 1 possibly OOS at the time of the alarm}, 3 Ladder Companies and 1 "Part Time" Rescue Company in a city with the population in 2013 that Mount Vernon has vs. the 6 Engine Companies, 4 Ladder Companies, 1 "Full Time" Rescue Company and a Foam Unit that was in existance some 40 years ago) and a Mayor who will stand up and put the safety of the citizens of the City of Mount Vernon ahead of anythng else, is the answers that will go a long way in preventing such a tragic event in the future (NOTE: no matter how many safety measures you could have in place, "people" will still do silly things that cause fires and emergency events. It is how a city can "best" prepare to deal with such events that count)

[RetiredDC 6]

RetiredDC

When (or will) the Commissioner and the Chief of Operations stand up and be counted in regard to the

unbelievably substandard manning issue affecting FDMV?

[hudson144 150]

After all - "For the most part we have a good Fire Department" :-)

[firefighter-70 27]

After all - "For the most part we have a good Fire Department" :-)

Haha Jody, yeah "For the most part" my knees, back, neck and other parts of my body are doing ok! But as you know, regardless of what our leadership may say we'll still step up and put on those turnouts, step into the rig and give it well more then 110% when we step out on the fire ground for fire duty. By all accounts we know you all broke your _$$ trying to get the Urena family out. FDMV is fortunate too have Professionals like you, your DC and the entire 1 Group. Its very hard to measure at times just how successful your actions are when you get the people out, and the public does not know because it wasn't flashy and did not made the news as in most cases in the Vern, ??? But at the end of the day when you look to your left and right, you'll still have your brothers standing next to you ready to step into the next bag of worms you're handed, too do the very best you can with what you've got!

[hudson144 150]

For those of you that didnt know it that quote from above was the Mayors statement! Thnx for the support to all.

[RWC130 594]

Very sad. God bless the family.

I can only hope this opens some eyes in City Hall so the FDMV gets the proper staffing and equipment to do the job.