Westchester County Car Assignments

[sfrd18 360]

Does anyone have a list, or has WCDES made a list of the Car Assignments for fire departments in Westchester County?

I know that there is an Apparatus Plate listing(http://www.emtbravo.net/index.php/topic/22652-westchester-apparatus-plate-assignments/) for all Engines, Ladders, Tower Ladders, Rescues, and other apparatus, however, no Command Cars are listed (i.e. Car 2392, Car 2292, Car 2305, etc.). The only cars listed there are from 60 Control.

[SECTMB 612]

Each department has a number designation. I'm from Briarcliff Manor, we are department number 205. Therefore our Chief is 2051, the Assistants are 2052 and 2053 and our Deputy Chiefs are 2054, 2055 etc.

[Avon Rob 40]

Basically, the departments are listed in alphabetical order and assigned numbers starting with Ardsley @ 201. First car, usually head chief would be 2011. Ass't. would be 2012, etc. Makes sense about 90% of the time. As does most things within the county. This system was started years ago, when life was easier and not so complicated.

[Bnechis 3,961]

As does most things within the county. This system was started years ago, when life was easier and not so complicated.

If it was not so complicated, then why did they need a 3 digit number to identify 58 (or less, then) 59 (now) depts?

[FFEMT150 214]

The idea behind the 3 digit department number may have been to avoid confusion with unit numbers. For example, if the chief of department 12 calls out "121 to 60 control" is this 12-1 or 121 an engine from montrose? I feel westchesters number system is less confusing than some that are out there.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

look at rockland county numbers on the chief cars and rigs,wow.

[Bnechis 3,961]

The idea behind the 3 digit department number may have been to avoid confusion with unit numbers. For example, if the chief of department 12 calls out "121 to 60 control" is this 12-1 or 121 an engine from montrose? I feel westchesters number system is less confusing than some that are out there.

They rarely called 60 control back then

[mfc2257 464]

The idea behind the 3 digit department number may have been to avoid confusion with unit numbers. For example, if the chief of department 12 calls out "121 to 60 control" is

this 12-1 or 121 an engine from montrose? I feel westchesters number system is less confusing than some that are out there.

The Westchester County method of identifying apparatus is a$$ backwards. There is no reasoning to it. Departments have been able to reserve whatever number they want for their rigs with no relation to what department they are part of. The Putnam and Rockland methods at least follow a formula but are still overly complicated. The easiest way to do it, and the way the majority of our countrymen have chosen to do so is to number each department in the county... For Westchester county that would be 59 departments. If a particular department was number 25 take my former department of Millwood and it's current lineup of apparatus it would be as follows....

Station 25-1

Truck 25

Rescue 25

Engine 25-1 (Engine Twenty Five One)

Mini Attack 25

Utility 25

Station 25-2

Tanker 25

Engine 25-2 (Engine Twenty Five Two)

Chief 25

Assistant 25-1 (Assistant Twenty Five One)

Assistant 25-2 (Assistant Twenty Five Two)

This way when you hear an identifier on the radio you know exactly what department it's from (If you hear Twenty Five you know it's Millwood).

Now it's insane....

Engine 10 is in Harrison

Mini Attack 10 is in Millwood

Truck 10 is in Mohegan

Rescue 10 is in Bedford Hills

Tanker 10 is in Croton

Utility 10 is in Purchase

Really?

[ac316scu 31]

http://emergencyservices.westchestergov.com/images/stories/pdfs/communications/UHFlineup.pdf

List is on there. it starts with Ardsley, 201, and goes up alphabetically (Armonk 202, Bedford Hills 203, etc). There are some odd balls at the end, like Banksville, 258. For the chiefs just put a 1 on the end, 1st assistant put a 2, and 2nd assistant put a 3. So for Banksville, 258, the chiefs are 2581, 2582, and 2583.

Edited October 24, 2013 by ac316scu

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

The Westchester County method of identifying apparatus is a$$ backwards. There is no reasoning to it. Departments have been able to reserve whatever number they want for their rigs with no relation to what department they are part of. The Putnam and Rockland methods at least follow a formula but are still overly complicated. The easiest way to do it, and the way the majority of our countrymen have chosen to do so is to number each department in the county... For Westchester county that would be 59 departments. If a particular department was number 25 take my former department of Millwood and it's current lineup of apparatus it would be as follows.... Station 25-1 Truck 25 Rescue 25 Engine 25-1 (Engine Twenty Five One) Mini Attack 25 Utility 25 Station 25-2 Tanker 25 Engine 25-2 (Engine Twenty Five Two) Chief 25 Assistant 25-1 (Assistant Twenty Five One) Assistant 25-2 (Assistant Twenty Five Two) This way when you hear an identifier on the radio you know exactly what department it's from (If you hear Twenty Five you know it's Millwood). Now it's insane.... Engine 10 is in Harrison Mini Attack 10 is in Millwood Truck 10 is in Mohegan Rescue 10 is in Bedford Hills Tanker 10 is in Croton Utility 10 is in Purchase Really?

Why not plain english?

Millwood Engine 1

Millwood Engine 2

Millwood Rescue 1

Willwood Truck 1

[Bnechis 3,961]

http://emergencyservices.westchestergov.com/images/stories/pdfs/communications/UHFlineup.pdf

List is on there. it starts with Ardsley, 201, and goes up alphabetically (Armonk 202, Bedford Hills 203, etc). There are some odd balls at the end, like Banksville, 258. For the chiefs just put a 1 on the end, 1st assistant put a 2, and 2nd assistant put a 3. So for Banksville, 258, the chiefs are 2581, 2582, and 2583.

and what happens when the dept has enough staff cars that we roll numbers. 2301, 2302....23010, 23011

[antiquefirelt 994]

Perfect timing, our regional comm center is looking at a regional radio designation system right now. Anyone have a system they think works well? It appears that using a singular dispatch freq with lots of auto aid ends up with a lot of similar sounding apparatus moving thus they feel a numbering system is the answer. I understand it works well for our local LEO's, though I'm not sure the numbers or types of resources are nearly as complex.

Edited October 24, 2013 by antiquefirelt

[Avon Rob 40]

If I am not mistaken, Elmsford does expand the normal parameters of the numbering system. Also, in the 'old' days, most everyone got along, accepted the info; and cooperated. There also wasn't that many specialized apparatus such as tankers, cascades, quints & others. Also how many departments had the ambulance on the fd radio?

[ac316scu 31]

Perfect timing, our regional comm center is looking at a regional radio designation system right now. Anyone have a system they think works well? It appears that using a singular dispatch freq with lots of auto aid ends up with a lot of similar sounding apparatus moving thus they feel a numbering system is the answer. I understand it works well for our local LEO's, though I'm not sure the numbers or types of resources are nearly as complex.

Suffolk county has an ok system. Basically its the town-village-apparatus. Only downside is they don't have a set standard for the apparatus designation besides the chiefs, which are x-x-30, 31, 32, 33. If it was set up so that the engines are always x-x-1 thru x-x-5, rescue is x-x-6 thru x-x-10, etc, it would be better. Here is an example of how it is set up. There are over 100 agencies in the county, including EMS, and it seems to work.

Babylon Town

Fire Coord n Administration 1-1-x

Amityville 1-2-x

Babylon 1-3-x

Copiague 1-4-x

Deer Park 1-5-x

Huntington

Fire Coord 2-1-x

Cold Spring Harbor 2-2-x

Halesite 2-3-x

Huntington 2-4-x

Huntington Manor 2-5-x

Islip

Town Fire Coord 3-1-x

Bayshore 3-2-x

Brentwood 3-3-x

East Brentwood 3-4-x

Islip 3-5-x

Edited October 24, 2013 by ac316scu

[wcr20 17]

This goes back a long ways - but I used to like the Tompkins Co (NY) system - no idea if its still in use

4 digits for everything:

1st 2 are the dept. in alphabetical order

3rd digit is apparatus type - 0 for engines, 3 for ladder 4 for utility/rescue 5 for ambulance 6 for chiefs - i forget the rest - its been 29 years.

4th digit is the individual unit -

so 201 was Cayuga Heights engine 1

933 was Ithaca Ladder 3

etc

Ah - here's the reference: http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Tompkins_County_%28NY%29

[velcroMedic1987 330]

This goes back a long ways - but I used to like the Tompkins Co (NY) system - no idea if its still in use

4 digits for everything:

1st 2 are the dept. in alphabetical order

3rd digit is apparatus type - 0 for engines, 3 for ladder 4 for utility/rescue 5 for ambulance 6 for chiefs - i forget the rest - its been 29 years.

4th digit is the individual unit -

so 201 was Cayuga Heights engine 1

933 was Ithaca Ladder 3

etc

Ah - here's the reference: http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Tompkins_County_%28NY%29

Neither of the examples you gave are four digits. What's that say about their numbering system.

[E106MKFD 56]

Similar to what MFC2257 posted about more noted practices my fire department in Niagara County follows a relative approach. Maybe not the best approach but much easier to denote each unit over the air without having to list a full name (Ex. Millwood Engine 1) on each radio transmission. Each department is given a number and then they have the following layout: http://www.niagaracounty.com/fire/AboutUs.aspx

_ M 7 Fire Chief
_ M 7A First Asst.
_ M 7B Second Asst.
_ M 7C Third Asst.

E = Engine/Pumper

A=Aerial
R=Rescue/Ambulance
M=Misc.
T=Tanker

Upper Mountain Fire Company, Lewiston, NY

Station # 26

Chief: 26 M7 (All chief's in the county are listed M7)

Asst. Chief: 26 M7A

2nd Asst. Chief: 26 M7B

Engine 1: 26 E1

Engine 2: 26 E2

Ladder: 26 A8

Fly Car: 26 M1 (M for Miscellaneous unit not Medic)

Ambulance 1: 26 R9

Ambulance 2: 26 R9A

[grushkjs 2]

Wow you all have a way of complicating things. Why not go with the "plan english" suggestion of earlier? As long as you say the department name beforehand, the rest should be gravy. Example: "Stamford Engine 2 en route." "Greenwich Engine 5 on scene."

[mfc2257 464]

Wow you all have a way of complicating things. Why not go with the "plan english" suggestion of earlier? As long as you say the department name beforehand, the rest should be gravy. Example: "Stamford Engine 2 en route." "Greenwich Engine 5 on scene."

Because CAD systems need a number to affiliate with a department.

[wcr20 17]

Neither of the examples you gave are four digits. What's that say about their numbering system.

Well Technically it would be 0201, but the leading zero is silent.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Because CAD systems need a number to affiliate with a department.

Then how do they handle "Engine" 1, "Ladder" 2 or "Rescue" 3?

They can handle what they are programed to handle

[Bnechis 3,961]

One thing to consider, many of the systems suggested are concerned with systems that either run many small or slower depts. Many of the suggestions do not work well in counties/regions that have a mix of small and larger depts. When you numbering system only allows for 1 digit for all the units (of a type), larger depts have a problem. Also some of these numbering systems sound great when you do 1 or 2 calls per day, but when you do dozens they become problematic. How many very large city or county depts use them? few

[Engine 138 Antique Owner 1]

I "Grew Up" on Tanker 4 and Engine 141 in Vista. Currently with Larkspur Fire and Kiowa Fire in Colorado. We use a 2-3 digit system with plain English for the apparatus type. It expands out more digits as needed. Larkspur is 16. I run on Engine 162 from station 2. Cunningham is department 6 and has medics 61 & 611 out of station 61. Deparents with multiple same type apparatus at the same station either add another digit or use another number Larkspur Brush 161 & 165 are at station 161, (there is no station 165) 3 counties use the same numbering system so there are no same numbered units in those 3 counties

[Engine 138 Antique Owner 1]

Avon Bob is correct about Elmsford. Yonkers used the 300's. But Westchester used to have a larger variety of units designations. Snorkel, Quint, Ladder, Tower Ladder, Rescue, Ambulance, Light Truck, Utility, Air, Tanker, Engine, Mini Attack, Bus, Quick Attack, Jeep, Patrol, Squrt ... I must be forgetting some. Vista is 2561. If you call 60 control they should get you a list.

[PVFD113 6]

So to add Putnam into the mix. Seems to work

4 digits

Dept# - equipment type - unit designator

Fire Dept's are numbered from 11-24 (alphebetically assigned), EMS 31-35,

Brewster Dept 11, Carmel 12, .........Putnam Valley 24

Carmel VAC 31.....Putnamvalley VAC 34

1=Chief, 2=Pumper/Engine, 3=Brush, 4=Tanker, 5=Aerial, 6=Rescue, 7=Ambulance, 8=Utility, 9=Portable (Capt's, LT's, FP), M=Medic, Marine=Marine

Last digit is the unit designator.

County Teams are slightly different as they use their team # 40 (Investigation), 45 (Fire Police), 50 (HazMat) - Member ID# Ex:50-01 (Hazmat Captain), 50-18(Hazmat member 18)

EX: Putnam Valley Chiefs 24-1-1, 24-1-2, 24-1-3

Engine 1= 24-2-1

Engine 2= 24-2-2

Tanker 1 24-4-1

Brush 1- 24-3-1

Aerial 24-5-1

Rescue 24-6-1

and so on

[Fireman488 57]

If I am not mistaken, Elmsford does expand the normal parameters of the numbering system.

Elmsford FD designations:

Dept = 211

2110 = Deputy Chief

2111 = Chief

2112 = 1st Asst. Chief

2113 = 2nd Asst. Chief

2114 = Captain, Ladder Co.

2115 = Captain, Engine Co.

2116 = 1st. Lieut, Ladder Co.

2117 = 1st. Lieut, Engine Co.

2118 = 2nd. Lieut, Ladder Co.

2119 = 2nd. Lieut, Engine Co.

58-12 = EMS Lieut, Ladder Co.

58-13 = EMS Lieut, Engine Co.

[mllax14 18]

The Westchester County method of identifying apparatus is a$$ backwards. There is no reasoning to it. Departments have been able to reserve whatever number they want for their rigs with no relation to what department they are part of. The Putnam and Rockland methods at least follow a formula but are still overly complicated. The easiest way to do it, and the way the majority of our countrymen have chosen to do so is to number each department in the county... For Westchester county that would be 59 departments. If a particular department was number 25 take my former department of Millwood and it's current lineup of apparatus it would be as follows....Station 25-1Truck 25Rescue 25Engine 25-1 (Engine Twenty Five One)Mini Attack 25Utility 25Station 25-2Tanker 25Engine 25-2 (Engine Twenty Five Two)Chief 25Assistant 25-1 (Assistant Twenty Five One)Assistant 25-2 (Assistant Twenty Five Two)This way when you hear an identifier on the radio you know exactly what department it's from (If you hear Twenty Five you know it's Millwood). Now it's insane....Engine 10 is in HarrisonMini Attack 10 is in MillwoodTruck 10 is in MoheganRescue 10 is in Bedford HillsTanker 10 is in CrotonUtility 10 is in PurchaseReally?

I agree and I think a system like this would make a lot of sense, but I can see it meeting some resistance from people that don't want to lose that traditional numbers.

Now this might seem like a silly question and I'm not a radio guy, but why don't we have a digitall radio system? It just doesn't make sense to me that Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and even the City apparatus can't communicate easily on not only a regular basis, but on large scale incidents such as the brush fire in rockland today.

The Westchester County method of identifying apparatus is a$$ backwards. There is no reasoning to it. Departments have been able to reserve whatever number they want for their rigs with no relation to what department they are part of. The Putnam and Rockland methods at least follow a formula but are still overly complicated. The easiest way to do it, and the way the majority of our countrymen have chosen to do so is to number each department in the county... For Westchester county that would be 59 departments. If a particular department was number 25 take my former department of Millwood and it's current lineup of apparatus it would be as follows....Station 25-1Truck 25Rescue 25Engine 25-1 (Engine Twenty Five One)Mini Attack 25Utility 25Station 25-2Tanker 25Engine 25-2 (Engine Twenty Five Two)Chief 25Assistant 25-1 (Assistant Twenty Five One)Assistant 25-2 (Assistant Twenty Five Two)This way when you hear an identifier on the radio you know exactly what department it's from (If you hear Twenty Five you know it's Millwood). Now it's insane....Engine 10 is in HarrisonMini Attack 10 is in MillwoodTruck 10 is in MoheganRescue 10 is in Bedford HillsTanker 10 is in CrotonUtility 10 is in PurchaseReally?

I agree and I think a system like this would make a lot of sense, but I can see it meeting some resistance from people that don't want to lose that traditional numbers.

Now this might seem like a silly question and I'm not a radio guy, but why don't we have a digitall radio system? It just doesn't make sense to me that Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and even the City apparatus can't communicate easily on not only a regular basis, but on large scale incidents such as the brush fire in rockland today.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Now this might seem like a silly question and I'm not a radio guy, but why don't we have a digitall radio system? It just doesn't make sense to me that Westchester, Rockland, Putnam and even the City apparatus can't communicate easily on not only a regular basis, but on large scale incidents such as the brush fire in rockland today.

1) you do not need a digital radio system to talk to one another.

2) we have no problem talking to most other depts. since the county, the career chiefs and FDNY recommended adding U-Tac to all our radios. In fact we can use it anywhere in the US.

[Morningjoe 162]

2) we have no problem talking to most other depts. since the county, the career chiefs and FDNY recommended adding U-Tac to all our radios. In fact we can use it anywhere in the US.

I was dissapointed today that we were not using Utac/call channels today, over in rockland county. Would have made communication infinetly better.

[v85 212]

I like the way we did it down in Maryland:

Plain English for the apparatus type, then first digit or two was the station, last digit was the apparatus number (also told the type of the unit)

For the apparatus number:

1,2,3,4 = Engines

5,6 = Ambulances

7 = Brush Truck

Squads, Trucks, Towers, and Special units just used the station number

For officers:

Volunteer chiefs used their station number, assistant chiefs used the station number and A, B,C to indicate which one they were

Paid Battalion Chiefs just used Battalion 1 or Battalion 2 depending if they were in battalion 1 or 2

Paid EMS officers used EMS 1 or EMS 2 depending if they were in battalion 1 or 2

Examples:

Chief 2: Volunteer Chief Station 2

Chief 1C: 3rd Assistant Chief Station 1

Engine 22: Paid engine out of station 2

Engine 13: Volunteer engine from station 1

Ambulance 66: BLS ambulance from station 6

Engine 101: Engine from station 10

Tower 2: Tower ladder from station 2

Truck 7: Straight stick truck from station 7