Fire Commisioners

[x635 4,066]

It seems like a source of drama in many departments stems or is blamed on the commissioners of fire districts.

Now, I know fire districts may not take on the traditional boundaries of a town or city, but is having fire commissioners another layer of government? Who are they accountable to, besides the taxpayers?

How can they take an objective look at things if they are involved in departmental "cliques" and usually members of the department or put up by members of the department?

Not many "outsiders" seem to wanted to be fire commissioners anymore, and with 5 year terms, there is hardly any new blood resulting in things staying the same way longer then they need to,. Nor do many communities stir up interest in new fire commissioners, and does that encourage complacency and slow change?

Are "Fire Commissioners" going to become obsolete? Is there a better way to govern fire districts?

[38ff 250]

Fire commissioners report to the taxpayers, and the NYS Comptrollers/ the county DAs office if they really screw up with money. NYS laws authorize fire districts to be political subdivisions of the state of NY. Someone has to be responsible for it. Who else would do that job? -

[firemoose827 324]

Our commissioners report to the Town Supervisor but have ultimate control of the department being we are a fire district. We have commissioners meetings on the second monday of the month and any tax paying person in our district can attend and ask questions and hear about department issues. They have a say in where their money goes, like with our recent proposal to have our station remodeled with an addition built on. That was passed, but not without a ton of flak from the taxpayers at that monthly commissioners meeting. As acting chief that month, I got to field all of the angry questions and offer our reasoning behind the need for the work; basically trying to tell them that fitting 5 trucks and a UTV with trailer in a 3 bay station had its negative impacts on OSHA laws, and by sharing all of the pictures of our station that were used in the annual OSHA refresher training in our county and how it was a huge black eye to our department and a safety issue.

The commissioners were on board with it, but the taxpayers were not, they complained and felt we could make due with what we had and were not concerned with our safety issue (until their house burns down because one of our members gets run over by their own truck trying to get out of our cramped station).

My issue with them, is that most of ours are not even firefighters or have they ever been firefighters. They are voted on just like other town officials in November, so anyone can be nominated and voted in if they have the votes from the town taxpayers. Right now, only one of the 7 member board of commissioners is still an active firefighter/driver, another 2 have been members a while ago but are not currently, the others have no firefighting experience. Thats my only issue.

[ex-commish 490]

We are accountable to the taxpayers, members of the department, as well as the state comptrollers office to name a few. And if I may ask can you elaborate a little more when you say drama stems from or is blamed on fire commissioners? I see a lot of drama and it is usually disgruntled people that like to throw gasoline on things and make things bigger than they really are.

[markmets415 524]

Our commissioners report to the Town Supervisor but have ultimate control of the department being we are a fire district. We have commissioners meetings on the second monday of the month and any tax paying person in our district can attend and ask questions and hear about department issues. They have a say in where their money goes, like with our recent proposal to have our station remodeled with an addition built on. That was passed, but not without a ton of flak from the taxpayers at that monthly commissioners meeting. As acting chief that month, I got to field all of the angry questions and offer our reasoning behind the need for the work; basically trying to tell them that fitting 5 trucks and a UTV with trailer in a 3 bay station had its negative impacts on OSHA laws, and by sharing all of the pictures of our station that were used in the annual OSHA refresher training in our county and how it was a huge black eye to our department and a safety issue.

The commissioners were on board with it, but the taxpayers were not, they complained and felt we could make due with what we had and were not concerned with our safety issue (until their house burns down because one of our members gets run over by their own truck trying to get out of our cramped station).

My issue with them, is that most of ours are not even firefighters or have they ever been firefighters. They are voted on just like other town officials in November, so anyone can be nominated and voted in if they have the votes from the town taxpayers. Right now, only one of the 7 member board of commissioners is still an active firefighter/driver, another 2 have been members a while ago but are not currently, the others have no firefighting experience. Thats my only issue.

Meetings are open to the public and you do not have to be a taxpayer to vote on items such as resolutions, all you have to be is a registered voter within that fire district to be heard. Our district adopted a public comment section to their monthly meetings just for that very reason "public comments". Sadly it is the same people that attend monthly, the fire commissioners and a few officers, even when we went through the purchasing of the new engine that failed on the first vote, no one from the public attended a meeting, once in a while we get a "hot" topic and a few individuals show up. I personally would like more people from the public to be on the board, instead of just members or past members, I've found that many times some of our own members that haven't seen a fire or been an active member for a great length of time really have no idea what is going on in today's emergency services either so are they really an "asset"? I think not. I would like to have five members that a are financially responsible and not "yes" members to the Chief. As always like you did above, do your homework ahead of time, be prepared, justify your expenditures and make a presentation to the members that have been voted in to over see how the taxes are spent, as well as the public, chances are if you are prepared, you should have no problem with getting approval for items, at least that's been my experience sitting at the other side of the table.

Edited October 8, 2013 by markmets415

[38ff 250]

Exactly what markmets said..

[GAW6 66]

As a "civilian" fire commissioner, I feel I must respond to this post. Although I have 25 years experience in emergency services, I am not a firefighter and know nothing regarding trucks or firefighting. I rely heavily on my fellow commissioners who are firefighters/Ex-Chiefs/Ex-FDNY.

You are probably asking, "what purpose do you serve then"? In my position on the Board, I handle the insurance and I am the LOSAP Administrator. As a former Treasurer of the District, I also help out with the fiscal responsibilities.

As said previously, we not only have to answer to the tax payers, we have to answer to NYS. We have an outside professional audit done every year which is forwarded to the State Comptroller's office.

To have a Board the consists of all "civilians" would be ridiculous. I know of a neighboring District that has a majority of "civilians" on their Board and they have been spending more money on "consultants" than anything else. The "consultants" should be your experienced members, not some "white collar" person who knows nothing about the fire service.

I am very glad that I have four very experienced members of our department sitting beside me.

[38ff 250]

My dept and district have no drama, which is rather unusual. We are a cohesive team, and no, the commissioners do not "steamroller" the chief, nor does the chief/dept create problems and vise versa. Our dept isnt huge, we dont run tons of calls, and we are a pretty decent family. The Chief doesnt ask for crazy things, and the commissioners do our best with in our small budget to get what we need to provide a high level of fire protection to the town.. Our meetings are open (as all fire districts in NYS meetings are), and we have one citizen that shows up to show his support for the dept/district. Honestly, I wish more citizens would get involved to see how we operate. I think all they really care about is that the big red truck shows up when they have a problem so we can fix it.

Edited October 8, 2013 by 38ff

[firemoose827 324]

As a "civilian" fire commissioner, I feel I must respond to this post. Although I have 25 years experience in emergency services, I am not a firefighter and know nothing regarding trucks or firefighting. I rely heavily on my fellow commissioners who are firefighters/Ex-Chiefs/Ex-FDNY.

You are probably asking, "what purpose do you serve then"? In my position on the Board, I handle the insurance and I am the LOSAP Administrator. As a former Treasurer of the District, I also help out with the fiscal responsibilities.

As said previously, we not only have to answer to the tax payers, we have to answer to NYS. We have an outside professional audit done every year which is forwarded to the State Comptroller's office.

To have a Board the consists of all "civilians" would be ridiculous. I know of a neighboring District that has a majority of "civilians" on their Board and they have been spending more money on "consultants" than anything else. The "consultants" should be your experienced members, not some "white collar" person who knows nothing about the fire service.

I am very glad that I have four very experienced members of our department sitting beside me.

GAW6, excellent post. I wanted to clarify something; I hope my comments did not offend anyone, they were simply made in haste with a lot of anger towords a few of our commissioners who are seemingly trying to turn our department into a business. They get mad when we dont turn a profit....and seem to not care that we have equipment needs. We have an ambulance that Im amazed even starts any more, and engine that failed pump test three times and they still throw money into it and hope it works, an old rescue truck held together with bondo and duct tape, a number of sets of gear about to go over the 10 year mark, a bunch of SCBA bottles that will need to be replaced soon...they just dont want to spend money where it is needed and complain about it. We cant provide the service we need to without this equipment but we cant explain that to some of these members because they have no emergency services experience, and its frustrating.

I am glad to see you work well with your board and that you understand these issues at least, members like you would be a welcome sight, its just some of the people I have to deal with that bothers me. Hope I did not offend anyone.

Stay Safe

Edited October 9, 2013 by firemoose827
spelling

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Our commissioners report to the Town Supervisor but have ultimate control of the department being we are a fire district. We have commissioners meetings on the second monday of the month and any tax paying person in our district can attend and ask questions and hear about department issues. They have a say in where their money goes, like with our recent proposal to have our station remodeled with an addition built on. That was passed, but not without a ton of flak from the taxpayers at that monthly commissioners meeting. As acting chief that month, I got to field all of the angry questions and offer our reasoning behind the need for the work; basically trying to tell them that fitting 5 trucks and a UTV with trailer in a 3 bay station had its negative impacts on OSHA laws, and by sharing all of the pictures of our station that were used in the annual OSHA refresher training in our county and how it was a huge black eye to our department and a safety issue.

The commissioners were on board with it, but the taxpayers were not, they complained and felt we could make due with what we had and were not concerned with our safety issue (until their house burns down because one of our members gets run over by their own truck trying to get out of our cramped station).

My issue with them, is that most of ours are not even firefighters or have they ever been firefighters. They are voted on just like other town officials in November, so anyone can be nominated and voted in if they have the votes from the town taxpayers. Right now, only one of the 7 member board of commissioners is still an active firefighter/driver, another 2 have been members a while ago but are not currently, the others have no firefighting experience. Thats my only issue.

Sometimes having people that are not FF is better than having a guy with preconceived ideas or who thinks they know better than the chief. In cases where the commish is not an FF, they should be advised by the chief of department who should be the subject matter expert on the fire service.

The board should consider the needs of the department and the demands of the taxpayers and choose the best course of action with both in mind.

[markmets415 524]

GAW6, excellent post. I wanted to clarify something; I hope my comments did not offend anyone, they were simply made in haste with a lot of anger towords a few of our commissioners who are seemingly trying to turn our department into a business. They get mad when we dont turn a profit....and seem to not care that we have equipment needs. We have an ambulance that Im amazed even starts any more, and engine that failed pump test three times and they still throw money into it and hope it works, an old rescue truck held together with bondo and duct tape, a number of sets of gear about to go over the 10 year mark, a bunch of SCBA bottles that will need to be replaced soon...they just dont want to spend money where it is needed and complain about it. We cant provide the service we need to without this equipment but we cant explain that to some of these members because they have no emergency services experience, and its frustrating.

I am glad to see you work well with your board and that you understand these issues at least, members like you would be a welcome sight, its just some of the people I have to deal with that bothers me. Hope I did not offend anyone.

Stay Safe

Funny Brian how district are different, we have a few members of our company on the board and they're the ones that frustrate the heck out of us because they believe they know it all, so so frustrating in both our cases.

[38ff 250]

I think it all boils down to the people themselves on the board. My board/Chief/dept works together, and the district keeps the needs of the dept and the taxpayers in a healthy state.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

I think it all boils down to the people themselves on the board. My board/Chief/dept works together, and the district keeps the needs of the dept and the taxpayers in a healthy state.

Exactly my point.

[38ff 250]

Firemoose,

Fire Commissioner elections are coming up in December. Get a candidate to run and back him. You need to start change somewhere. December 10th is a good day to start the process..

[Bnechis 3,961]

We cant provide the service we need to without this equipment but we cant explain that to some of these members because they have no emergency services experience, and its frustrating.

This has nothing to do with them not having experience, this is just them being stupid.

You do not need to be a mechanic to understand that your car has a flat tire, but if you do not know how to fix it you might need one.

[x635 4,066]

I also want to add that I think that Fire Commissioner elections should be moved to election day.

Having a independent voting day during the holiday season with limited poll hours doesn't help things much.

[38ff 250]

I agree with you, X635, but with out state govt's track record on getting things done in a quick manor, I think we may all be dead before that happens.

[Remember585 815]

I've often heard of Commissioners being referred to as "Has Been's" and "Never Were's" which try to run a department despite the input of their Chiefs and Officers.

We don't have Commissioners, as we are a Municipal FD. We have a Fire Council made up of Wardens from our five companies and the three Chiefs. Despite the occasional quarrel, our Council leaves operational matters in the hands of the Chiefs.