WHY no blue lights to the front/law enforcement

[mark3274 1]

OK so we have had blue lights to the rear for years now. Unless your blind anyone can see that the blue lights are more visible in the dark and fog/rain then then the reds. If officer safety is of prime importance to police depts then why are they not using blues to the front. And please spare me the public would be confused jibberish. Most police depts in NC have started to switch from all blue to blue red because multicolor works better the vehicle is more defined and the public can spot the vehicle quicker. Thoughts? and by the way for those dept's that put 1 blue light in the rear such as ahem the Rochester police dept my question is what are you stupid? to be effective you need at minimum 3 blue lights to the front or rear... that means you SP's if you think your 2 small blue blinkers to the rear gets peoples attention effectively... go visit NC and see how far away a NC troop car can be spotted and then compare the distance to how far people can spot a ny troop car froma distance. Its not even close the NC trooper can be seen for well over a mile away their lighting is just that more effective than ny and there 1 or 2 blue lights to the rear nonsense. And don't give me tradition noone cares that cops in NY have always had red and white lights out of 50 states NY is one of maybe 5 total that uses red and white lights only to the front on a police vehicle. My point is this there is no question the blue lights work better in certain lighting conditions. Police officers work in said conditions all the time hence why would the dept's not do something to keep their employee's and the public safer?????????

[wiscems 23]

I would guess that it involves the longstanding traditions/laws of the various service color associations, ie red/white for police, blue for fire, green for EMS. Also might have something to do with NYS following what NYPD does.

[210 91]

Doubt the logistics people with Rochester PD are stupid. NC troopers are running a blue/red/amber combo in the rear but predominantly blue. Not being confrontational but but where does the "3" blue lights effectiveness rule come from? Yes, I will agree it's all about officer safety on the side of the road. The City of Durham has been multi colored for years and aside from the City of Fayetteville and the NC Highway Patrol who's going multi colored?

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Who cares? Nobody pays any attention to lights anyway. We have effectively dulled the publics sensitivity to them by adding them to every vehicle on the planet. Tow trucks, HELP trucks, funeral vehicles, service trucks, utility trucks, school buses, jolly vollies, and authorized emergency vehicles. You go blind driving through a scene at night these days.

Go back to the Smokey and the bandit bubble light for all I care!

[markmets415 524]

Here is your answer and it relates to New York State Vehicle and Traffic Law.

375 (41). Colored and flashing lights

4. Blue light. a. One blue light may be affixed to any motor vehicle owned by a volunteer member of a fire department or on a motor vehicle owned by a member of such person's family residing in the same household or by a business enterprise in which such person has a proprietary interest or by which he or she is employed, provided such volunteer firefighter has been authorized in writing to so affix a blue light by the chief of the fire department or company of which he or she is a member, which authorization shall be subject to revocation at any time by the chief who issued the same or his or her successor in office. Such blue light may be displayed exclusively by such volunteer firefighter on such a vehicle only when engaged in an emergency operation. The use of blue lights on vehicles shall be restricted for use only by a volunteer firefighter except as otherwise provided for in subparagraph b of this paragraph.

b. In addition to the red and white lights authorized to be displayed pursuant to paragraph two of this subdivision, one or more blue lights or combination blue and red lights or combination blue, red and white lights may be affixed to a police vehicle, fire vehicle, ambulance, emergency ambulance service vehicle, and county emergency medical services vehicle provided that such blue light or lights shall be displayed on a police vehicle, fire vehicle, ambulance, emergency ambulance service vehicle, and county emergency medical services vehicle for rear projection only. In the event that the trunk or rear gate of a police vehicle, fire vehicle, ambulance, emergency ambulance service vehicle, and county emergency medical services vehicle obstructs or diminishes the visibility of other emergency lighting on such vehicles, a blue light may be affixed to and displayed from the trunk, rear gate or interior of such vehicles. Such lights may be displayed on a police vehicle, fire vehicle, ambulance, emergency ambulance service vehicle, and county emergency medical services vehicle when such vehicles are engaged in an emergency operation. Nothing contained in this subparagraph shall be deemed to authorize the use of blue lights on police vehicles, fire vehicles, ambulances, emergency ambulance service vehicles, and county emergency medical services vehicles unless such vehicles also display one or more red or combination red and white lights as otherwise authorized in this subdivision.

[Chkpoint 131]

I was going to post state law beat to it. Some towns/ cities still put a blue light forward. i.e Yonkers. I think NY police Depts should have some sort of blue light facing forward, it does help. And I agree 1 single blue lamp in the rear is not enough. Look at county police even NYPD compared to state pd. You can see these cars for miles. Late night on hutch that blue light helped me see that County PD car half mile around the bend the way the blue bounces off everything.

What bothers the crap out of me is Vollys setting their POV up like a unmarked Christmas tree. One: it's illegal and also why? You can't go through red lights or have a siren and people do not have to move over for you. They should give you courtesy but you doing 50mph in a 30 zone is crazy. Now this site will turn this thread off because I hijacked it and criticized volunteers, which btw I have no problem with and have defended you as equally as career guys, except this issue.

[10512 214]

Chkpoint wrote:

"What bothers the crap out of me is Vollys setting their POV up like a unmarked Christmas tree. One: it's illegal and also why? You can't go through red lights or have a siren and people do not have to move over for you."

I always thought it must be embarrassing to be stopped a red light with a with a blue light flashing on my car.

wiscems wrote:

"Also might have something to do with NYS following what NYPD does"

It took the NYPD a while to go with the blue lights even after they were authorized. I hope no one is following NYPD. The NYPD finally phased out typewriters only about 5 years ago.

Any existing law can be changed. It probably has more to do with tradition than anything else

.

On a related note, some of these vehicles that can be seen a mile away actually can cause problems. They can be so bright, that you cannot see anything other than the light. The lights can wash out anything in the area. You may see the light, but you are not going to see the cop standing next to the radio car, or debris in the roadway, or anything else. Some are a bit too much. Sort of too much of a good thing.

[mark3274 1]

OK I know what NY state law says I quess my point is the law is outdated. There is no question the blue is more effective in poor lighting so why keep the law as is. Ohh I know NY doesn't do much of anything right I forgot we pass a safe NY act over some incident that happened in another state and make noone safer just closer to being the slaves of a state government that bows down whenever liberal NYC needs something done. Selling NYC to Jersey would be the best thing that ever happened to ny state. as for NC Greensboro is switching to multicolor soon... NC is a better state than NY. not because of Emergency lighting but because they still belief in America you don't pass gun grab laws just because some mental health loon goes on a shooting rampage you can never protect people 100% against mental health loons and if you think you can legislate behavior then please tell me again how well the drug war is going..... lets see drugs have been illegal forever and yet every high school kid has them so yea thats working well.

[Rex_RescuePC 9]

The thread had nothing to do with volunteers with blue lights originally. There are definitely a ton of volunteers with too many blue lights. Although there are a ton of them as well that are completely against using them. Personally, i drive to a call with traffic. It's a lot easier to point out who you are if you're driving with a blue light opposed to not having one at all.

[10512 214]

OK I know what NY state law says I quess my point is the law is outdated. There is no question the blue is more effective in poor lighting so why keep the law as is. Ohh I know NY doesn't do much of anything right I forgot we pass a safe NY act over some incident that happened in another state and make noone safer just closer to being the slaves of a state government that bows down whenever liberal NYC needs something done. Selling NYC to Jersey would be the best thing that ever happened to ny state. as for NC Greensboro is switching to multicolor soon... NC is a better state than NY. not because of Emergency lighting but because they still belief in America you don't pass gun grab laws just because some mental health loon goes on a shooting rampage you can never protect people 100% against mental health loons and if you think you can legislate behavior then please tell me again how well the drug war is going..... lets see drugs have been illegal forever and yet every high school kid has them so yea thats working well.

Maybe this should go on the Anti-NY thread, not a thread debating the merits of Blue lights.

Edited September 27, 2013 by 10512

[velcroMedic1987 330]

I would guess that it involves the longstanding traditions/laws of the various service color associations, ie red/white for police, blue for fire, green for EMS. Also might have something to do with NYS following what NYPD does.

NYPD is a NYC agency. The vehicel and traffic law is a State Law. If they were going to follow anyone, they'd follow the State Police, not the NYPD (no offense).

Is your point that you want front facing blue lights or what?

[Bnechis 3,961]

As it has been stated it is only legal to have them to the rear in NYS. That means any agency using front ones runs the risk of a smart lawer turning around any accident as being the PD's fault.

"Why not change the law"?

It took the NYS legislature almost 20 years to get rear facing blue. No one has the fight in them to go back and try to get then to change it again.

[wiscems 23]

No offense taken but people around the world (not just around NYS) follow things that FDNY and NYPD do.

[10512 214]

And speaking of blue lights, anyone see the MTA buses in NYC with the flashing blue lights on them? What is the deal there?

[markmets415 524]

OK I know what NY state law says I quess my point is the law is outdated. There is no question the blue is more effective in poor lighting so why keep the law as is. Ohh I know NY doesn't do much of anything right I forgot we pass a safe NY act over some incident that happened in another state and make noone safer just closer to being the slaves of a state government that bows down whenever liberal NYC needs something done. Selling NYC to Jersey would be the best thing that ever happened to ny state. as for NC Greensboro is switching to multicolor soon... NC is a better state than NY. not because of Emergency lighting but because they still belief in America you don't pass gun grab laws just because some mental health loon goes on a shooting rampage you can never protect people 100% against mental health loons and if you think you can legislate behavior then please tell me again how well the drug war is going..... lets see drugs have been illegal forever and yet every high school kid has them so yea thats working well.

The law isn't that old and why is necessary to turn this into a liberal government thing, seems this is has turned into more of a political complaint then anything else, you asked why police vehicle do not have blue lights facing forward, you were given the exact reason why then reply you already know? So now we've gone from blue lights facing forward now to guns, drugs, sorry you keep saying NC this NC that then please why not then move to Greensboro???? This is my first post to question another posters comments or motive but clearly this seems more then about blue lights and please I cannot speak for the moderators, let's keep the political BS off the site!!!! Blast away as you may!!!!!!!!

Edited September 27, 2013 by markmets415

[SOUSGT 357]

As it has been stated it is only legal to have them to the rear in NYS. That means any agency using front ones runs the risk of a smart lawer turning around any accident as being the PD's fault.

"Why not change the law"?

It took the NYS legislature almost 20 years to get rear facing blue. No one has the fight in them to go back and try to get then to change it again.

Actually it took the death of a NYS trooper in a horrific rear end crash to move the law forward. The rear facing blue was a compromise to increase visibility of emergency vehicle and save lives.

[Chkpoint 131]

10512,

That was done to show express or limited buses route in NYC. There was complaints and the practice should have ended although occasionally i see a few buses using it still. A complaint was made to NYC MTA Buses about it from citizens/ drivers and NYC Council was made aware it broke state law. also article somewhere online. MTA was told to pick a new color

[x635 4,066]

You're being WAY too dramatic about this issue. And the political comments are completely irrelevant and off base. Police Departments have way more important things to worry about then the color of their lights. Lights don't save lives and with LED's being so efficient and versatile, color really doesn't matter as much anymore. And modern day society really doesn't care about lights, most motorists don't even yield anymore during response and on scene.

If you're so concerned about this issue, there are other forums on the internet to specifically discuss emergency vehicle lighting. Please check them out to discuss this further.

[EMT111 149]

From what I understand, some of the volunteer fire fighter groups in NY are opposing blue lights on emergency vehicles, particularly police vehicles, because they feel that criminals will seem the volunteer POVs with their blue lights, think the volunteer FFs are cops and attack them or something.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Actually it took the death of a NYS trooper in a horrific rear end crash to move the law forward. The rear facing blue was a compromise to increase visibility of emergency vehicle and save lives.

From what I understand, some of the volunteer fire fighter groups in NY are opposing blue lights on emergency vehicles, particularly police vehicles, because they feel that criminals will seem the volunteer POVs with their blue lights, think the volunteer FFs are cops and attack them or something.

These 2 posts need to be merged together.

The NYSP had proposed the change for many years, but FASNY was able to use its political clout in Albany to keeping it from even getting to a vote. After that accident the troopers union put a big push for front and rear and FASNY seeing the "sympathy vote" going against them (there was talk that NYSP wanted blue illegal for volunteer fire), they came to a compromise, rear PD only.

Then after the law was past FASNY realized that it was still illegal for FD's to have rear blue so they asked for another modification to allow volunteer fire trucks to have blue rear. The NYS professional firefighters association asked the legislature what would happen in combo depts, only a volunteer could drive legally? what about depts with paid day staff? So the state came back with ALL fire trucks. Then EMS realized they were left out unless they were fire based......

And that is why I said: nobody's going to make any changes in Albany.

[gamewell45 258]

Who cares? Nobody pays any attention to lights anyway. We have effectively dulled the publics sensitivity to them by adding them to every vehicle on the planet. Tow trucks, HELP trucks, funeral vehicles, service trucks, utility trucks, school buses, jolly vollies, and authorized emergency vehicles. You go blind driving through a scene at night these days.

Go back to the Smokey and the bandit bubble light for all I care!

Why not just a lolipop in the grill?

[PEMO3 523]

And speaking of blue lights, anyone see the MTA buses in NYC with the flashing blue lights on them? What is the deal there?

I was under the impression that they were ordered to remove them from the so called "special expresses". I real have not noticed them lately but to be honest I real was not looking for them and they could have just blended in right now.

[SOUSGT 357]

I was under the impression that they were ordered to remove them from the so called "special expresses". I real have not noticed them lately but to be honest I real was not looking for them and they could have just blended in right now.

Looks like the issue isn’t resolved.

http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/04/17/manhattan-cb-6-urges-mta-to-restore-blue-lights-to-select-bus-service/

Manhattan Community Board 6 has adopted a resolution in support of a state law to bring back flashing blue lights on Select Bus Service buses. The resolution also urges the MTA to explore options to restore the lights in lieu of legislative action.

SBS buses went into service in 2008. The buses and their flashing blue lights — which help riders distinguish between SBS and local buses — operated without incident for four and a half years, until the MTA brought SBS service to Staten Island’s Hylan Boulevard. Last January, the lights were switched off after City Council Member Vincent Ignizio complained that motorists, himself included, were confusing SBS buses with emergency vehicles.

Though an obscure state law limits the use of flashing blue lights to volunteer firefighters, no legal action was taken to get the MTA to stop using the SBS lights. A 2010 Daily News story about the regulation provoked no official response. No bus driver was ever ticketed for using the lights. An MTA spokesperson told Transportation Nation that the agency had received all of one complaint from the public, after the launch of the inaugural SBS line in the Bronx.

[PEMO3 523]

Seems to me like the Select Bus Services issue and the blue lights they use is a multi faceted one. You have a quasi state agency that feels as such they can do as they please. The lights be of issue in SI and the Bronx probably have to deal with a larger number of suburban motorists who are aware what a forward facing blue light is supposed to be used for. And lastly, why blue, a simple forward facing yellow light or a steadily lite blue sign with the word "SELECT" would have the same effect without the creation of confusion and controversy but then again this is politics and they don't know how to do anything simple. Lets face it that idea would take 3 studies, 2 special committees and special vote before they could do it and the bill would include the purchase of 500 $1000 toilets for someones district.

[shfirefighter 19]

Who cares? Nobody pays any attention to lights anyway. We have effectively dulled the publics sensitivity to them by adding them to every vehicle on the planet. Tow trucks, HELP trucks, funeral vehicles, service trucks, utility trucks, school buses, jolly vollies, and authorized emergency vehicles. You go blind driving through a scene at night these days.

Go back to the Smokey and the bandit bubble light for all I care!

Jolly vollies best one I've heard in awhile

[gpeifer 89]

Volunteer FF's take note of V&t law...... "affix ONE blue light to vehicle". I guess YPD didn't read the V&T law.

[whyme? 0]

The reason it took so long to change is FASNY. They fought any attempt to confuse VFD members POV with a police car, until Finally the scientific studies showed that blue was more visible. FASNY is the reason. The end. Politicians do not vote against laws that Jolly Vollies oppose, because they vote, in blocks... simple political fact