Transitional Attack- Do You Use It? Pros/Cons?

[ks1980 36]

So I Volunteered at YHFD during the great McGannon years, we were aggressive with our fire offensive attack. I now live in central Oregon and am finding that the rural departments are using transitional attack . This is starting the initial attack in a defensive posture, ie/ blitz nozzle, deck gun, 2 1/2inch. Using the stream to hit the fire from outside, for about 15-30 seconds at a time till it darkens down, then going offensive interior. The exception is obviously life danger or the possibility of a quick knockdown.

My question is this does your department use this tactic, if so pros or cons of it.

[everybodygoes 331]

No cons, except from the losers on facebook that want to be tough guys yet have never either read the NIST research or have had to visit a friend in the burn center. I was afforded the opportunity to get an 8 hour lecture from one of the head researchers at NIST responsible for collecting the data and working with the FDNY CFD and I think Baltimore FD. That 8 hours changed everything.

[Morningjoe 162]

As someone who is proud to be a volunteer of the YHFD, fret not, we are still extremely aggressive in our interior attacks and initial pushes.

That being said, there is scientific data that years of thought of pushing fire, heat and the products of combustion and the such are 100% wrong. NIST has performed a ton of testing on this, and its beginning to look like, a transitional attack is not only safer for firefighters, it's safer for the occupants inside of the building as well.

The only issue is that it needs to be performed 100% correctly, or it is ineffective.This video: http://vimeo.com/71471869 highlights it all.

[ks1980 36]

As someone who is proud to be a volunteer of the YHFD, fret not, we are still extremely aggressive in our interior attacks and initial pushes.

That being said, there is scientific data that years of thought of pushing fire, heat and the products of combustion and the such are 100% wrong. NIST has performed a ton of testing on this, and its beginning to look like, a transitional attack is not only safer for firefighters, it's safer for the occupants inside of the building as well.

The only issue is that it needs to be performed 100% correctly, or it is ineffective.This video: http://vimeo.com/71471869 highlights it all.

Well morning Joe I am glad you guys are still aggressive please send my regards to 2532 and Martin. Yes my Department in Oregon does this tactic so it is new to me.

A additional question do you think this is the way departments will go?

[FFPCogs 863]

The only issue is that it needs to be performed 100% correctly, or it is ineffective.This video: http://vimeo.com/71471869 highlights it all.

And therein lies the key to just about any tactic. Transitional attack is just another play in our playbook, and it's one that has been around for a very long time. In fact most departments have probably employed it at fires in the past, as the incident has dictated a need for it. This tactic is neither good nor bad in and of itself, as firegrounds are dynamic and flexible situations where tactics may need to change as the incident progresses. But it isn't a one stop shopping cure all either. What is of vital import is knowing when, where, how and why to apply it to achieve the best results.

[firemoose827 324]

Our department has to use it due to our manpower issue. Our first 2 trucks on scene have 4 people total (if all seats filled) 2 drivers and 2 firefighters. We have to wait a few minutes for more manpower to arrive in either the rescue or POV's or mutual aid. So we use the transitional style attack until we have enough help to safely attack with the 2-in-2-out OSHA requirement met. Provided there isnt any life safety in which case the 2 firefighters make entry for a search. Its one of the only tactics we can use unless we, by some miracle, are rolling up to a fire with 12 people like at a drill or meeting night.

Didnt FDNY work with NIST not too long ago in some aquired apartment buildings scheduled for demo to run some tests on this? I remember seeing a video on youtube not too long ago with a news story about it.

[FirNaTine 370]

The books are just a guide. Gotta remain flexible and be able to think out of the box on occassion when difficult circumstances arise.

[everybodygoes 331]

The books are just a guide. Gotta remain flexible and be able to think out of the box on occassion when difficult circumstances arise.

FACT! Truck should always make a move for life.

[FirNaTine 370]

FACT! Truck should always make a move for life.

And who's implying they shouldn't?