Fires In Westchester That Required Large Amounts Of Water

[wraftery 1,275]

Well, my building is still standing, thanks to 150 good men, a good water supply (and knowing what you have available before the fire) and cooperation by Mutual aid departments.

I can tell you it was difficult to IC because of communications problems. For every frequency operating on the fireground there had to be a man at the CP.

Oh , and yes, I was using ICS, but had to sneak it in on some people.

[LTNRFD 266]

As far as I know the Career departments don't set the standard - in NYS - OFPC sets the standard - and I beleive there are 2 standards one for Career and one for volunteer? If everyone followed the same standard it would be a level playing field. For Firefighters and Officers.

So why can't the career departments take the lead and get the volunteer departments to the same standard they have. Or is it against their DNA?

If the career departments offer to train with them, I think you will be surprised as to the interest.

[spike2231 38]

sea-land fire was downtown portchester not byrum ct LOL AND IF I AM NOT mistaken there was so much ice that all portchester apparttus was frozen in place for hours after the fire was out and m/a units stayed in the village for like 2 days to cover while pcfd thawed out thier rigs

Edited September 16, 2013 by spike2231

[Bnechis 3,961]

Maybe when the career departments acknowledge the volunteer departments as the farm teams and use the farm teams to feed the system. Go to the "farm teams" and mold them and shape them to the standard the career departments set as the standard. Do this instead of putting people and departments down.

The career departments should be the mentors and the leaders to raise the standard in Westchester.

Since civil service in many cases does not and in some cases the federal courts will not allow "farm teams to feed the system" your analagy needs to be rethought.

How many of the county instructors at the FTC are career? Last I looked it was about 65-75%, Sounds like they are mentors and are trying to raise the standards in Westchester.

[Bnechis 3,961]

So why can't the career departments take the lead and get the volunteer departments to the same standard they have. Or is it against their DNA?

If the career departments offer to train with them, I think you will be surprised as to the interest.

The career fire service in NYS tried to get one standard and FASNY said NO. So they got a career standard and a volunteer standard and everytime OFPC has tried to add a few hours to it, its been shot down as it will be a death blow to the VFD's.

If the volunteers want the same standard all they have to do is accept it. ANy VFD can do that right now, they do not need the career service to do it for them. Why have they not already done it Or as you put it "is it against their DNA" to bring themselves up to the standard that most of the nation uses?

If we offered training by company (which is how we train) at the hours that we train (Monday - Friday) how would they cover their districts? Do you really think we would get a large interest, particularly when many depts can not even get a company on the road at those times for a call?

[bigfitz2004 19]

Here we go again... Volunteer versus career. Nothing to do with the topic. Why isn't this post closed yet.

[LTNRFD 266]

Why can't we all just work together??

Barry you can give all the examples and explanation as to why there is a problem. Why don't you spend more time fixing the problem then just exposing it. And yes I know it's not your job.....But someone has to start and you know more about what's broke and how to fix it.

This county could have the Nations premiere fire service IF more time is spent working towards a UNIFIED fire service then finding all the flaws in it.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Why can't we all just work together??

Barry you can give all the examples and explanation as to why there is a problem. Why don't you spend more time fixing the problem then just exposing it. And yes I know it's not your job.....But someone has to start and you know more about what's broke and how to fix it.

This county could have the Nations premiere fire service IF more time is spent working towards a UNIFIED fire service then finding all the flaws in it.

Because the majority do not want to.

The best statement I have heard to date: "We do not need outsiders to show us how bad we are,.we know how bad we are, and as long as the public does not know it, then everything is fine". - Head of Board of Fire Wardens (in a Westchester Community) to the Mayor & Council.

I have tried to fix it (& will continue), but I have realized that an "outsider" can not fix it if the members, chiefs, politicians do not want it to change and the public (and a lot of members) do not even know there is something wrong.

So my best fix is to keep challenging and informing and maybe someday things will change.

"You cant fix the problem if you do not see you have a problem"

We need uniformed responses to all locations. With well trained, well staffed and well equipped firefighters. Westchester is paying for it, but few are getting it.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

RB&W fire in Port Chester. That used a lot of water.

I believe at one point (from stories at the dinner table) that the Super Pumper System was being planned on to pump out of the Byrum River around day 4 or so.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

RB&W fire in Port Chester. That used a lot of water.

I believe at one point (from stories at the dinner table) that the Super Pumper System was being planned on to pump out of the Byrum River around day 4 or so.

Port Chester FD on location for 31 days !

[kinkchaser 352]

There was one fire that was massive and I believe the year was 1967 or 68, this fire was located at 14 North Chatsworth Ave in the Town of Mamaroneck, the building is equivilent to seven story building and had a huge footprint and fully occupied. The fire turned out to be so devastating that units from Mount Vernon, New Rochelle, White Plains, Port Chester, Larchmont, TMFD, Village of Mamaroneck, Harrison to name a few, all responded and a record number of Ladder pipes were in use. This being before large hose, you could imagine the amount of 2 1/2 in. spaghetti from hydrants far and near, to supply all these master streams.

As I recall a week day mid afternoon fire in winter with a terrible number of folks dispossessed

[Avon Rob 40]

Chief Raftery is being modest as to the accomplishments of both his men and the surrounding mutual aid departments. They did such a good job, saving over 50% of the building, that it didn't require a fire sprinkler system when it was rebuilt. Enjoy your retirement Bill!

[kinkchaser 352]

I found out many years later, when speaking with the gent, that one of the Port Chester vollies that fought the above mentioned Chatsworth Avenue fire was the celebrated ABC News Washington correspondent and often Presidential debate moderator Hal Bruno. Hal was until his passing one of the great champions of the Fire Service and officiated at many Fire related events.His DC influence was of great help with pro fire legislation.

If I recall, he related a story about being injured at this fire or overcome, as this wouldn't be a surprise, as this was still a time when Scotts were kept in suitcases.

Now just over the bridge from the Chatsworth fire was the Larchmont business district that burned very frequently during the 1970's and into the 1980's with some huge taxpayer and multiple dwelling fires, again before LDH so lots of 2.5 supply lines stretched for blocks, plenty of fire for a generation of Sound Shore firefighters during this period in just a few blocks.

[wraftery 1,275]

Chief Raftery is being modest as to the accomplishments of both his men and the surrounding mutual aid departments. They did such a good job, saving over 50% of the building, that it didn't require a fire sprinkler system when it was rebuilt. Enjoy your retirement Bill!

No sprinklers, but the kicker is that to level the ceilings with sheetrock (which used to be thick lathe and plaster) they put a layer of furring strips over the warped lumber. This left a 3/4" void on every ceiling in the building. Sometime in the future, my fire may be known as the little job.

Enjoying retirement. Just finished planning a 9/11 Memorial here in Chesapeake. along with a ceremony. It contains a 21'beam from the World Trade Center atop two mounds of rubble. A bigger memorial is planned. I used Chesapeake's FD to get it done: 2-Trucks, 1-Tech Rescue, 1- Collapse unit. They used it as a drill.

Check Facebook: Chesapeake 9/11 Memorial,(scroll down, lots of pictures)

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I found out many years later, when speaking with the gent, that one of the Port Chester vollies that fought the above mentioned Chatsworth Avenue fire was the celebrated ABC News Washington correspondent and often Presidential debate moderator Hal Bruno. Hal was until his passing one of the great champions of the Fire Service and officiated at many Fire related events.His DC influence was of great help with pro fire legislation.

If I recall, he related a story about being injured at this fire or overcome, as this wouldn't be a surprise, as this was still a time when Scotts were kept in suitcases.

Now just over the bridge from the Chatsworth fire was the Larchmont business district that burned very frequently during the 1970's and into the 1980's with some huge taxpayer and multiple dwelling fires, again before LDH so lots of 2.5 supply lines stretched for blocks, plenty of fire for a generation of Sound Shore firefighters during this period in just a few blocks.

Hal was a member Rescue 40 great guy and a great friend of mine. He brought along a US senator for a ride along before he died and they rode Rescue 40 Port Chester Fire Dept for the day and caught a busy day with my son at the wheel.

[dave0820 50]

When I was a call fire fighter in the lakes region of NH. we used a water supply system called the "rural hitch" Most pumpers up there carried 1000 gallons of water or more. The first due attack pumper dropped a 5" supply line at the top of the driveway with a gated siamese on it and a short length of 5". the second due truck hooks up to the siamese with the short length of 5" and lays a long length off the other side running back behind his truck with another siamese and short length, the third due does the same thing. This system repeats several times. The pump operators have to communicate with each other and as one truck empties the next in line starts to pump up. Because of the gated siamese the empty trucks can disconnect and go to the water supply, fill up, return and hook into the water supply wherever there is an opening. If done properly you can keep water flowing very well, but on a narrow road you can run into problems.

I know this post is about large volumes of water, this system won't supply huge amounts of water obviously, but for a house fire it works pretty well.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

When I was a call fire fighter in the lakes region of NH. we used a water supply system called the "rural hitch" Most pumpers up there carried 1000 gallons of water or more. The first due attack pumper dropped a 5" supply line at the top of the driveway with a gated siamese on it and a short length of 5". the second due truck hooks up to the siamese with the short length of 5" and lays a long length off the other side running back behind his truck with another siamese and short length, the third due does the same thing. This system repeats several times. The pump operators have to communicate with each other and as one truck empties the next in line starts to pump up. Because of the gated siamese the empty trucks can disconnect and go to the water supply, fill up, return and hook into the water supply wherever there is an opening. If done properly you can keep water flowing very well, but on a narrow road you can run into problems.

I know this post is about large volumes of water, this system won't supply huge amounts of water obviously, but for a house fire it works pretty well.

Where were you in the lakes region, both of my engines are Port Chester fire then Alexandra NH in the lakes region

Where were you in the lakes region, both of my engines are Port Chester New York [new] then Alexandra NH in the lakes region and have that decal on the Ward Lafrance.

Edited September 21, 2013 by PCFD ENG58

[kinkchaser 352]

Chief Raftery, really has a "salty" look since he moved. .Looks like one of those Chiefs we use to be afraid of,

[wraftery 1,275]

Chief Raftery, really has a "salty" look since he moved. .Looks like one of those Chiefs we use to be afraid of,

I was just wondering if they have bottle jacks on that rig.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I was just wondering if they have bottle jacks on that rig.

Just knowing what a bottle jack on a rig is makes one a little salty. Having ever swung one down and spun it....well thats SALTY.

[wraftery 1,275]

Wrong kind of jacks, Barry, inside joke.

However, yes, I have swung down, pinned and spinned outriggers. So I guess I am salty.

REALLY salty: The ladder pipe was mounted on the running board. To mount it on the ladder, you had to lift that sucka over your head on the count of three, and the man at the ladder tip had to grab it and mount it on the rungs.

[dave0820 50]

Where were you in the lakes region, both of my engines are Port Chester New York [new] then Alexandra NH in the lakes region and have that decal on the Ward Lafrance.

I was in Gilford next town over from Laconia. Gilford Fire Rescue is a very well trained, well prepared fire department. I learned so much there.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

I was in Gilford next town over from Laconia. Gilford Fire Rescue is a very well trained, well prepared fire department. I learned so much there.

I'm live in Wakefield. Big job in Laconia last night.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Why can't we all just work together??

Barry you can give all the examples and explanation as to why there is a problem. Why don't you spend more time fixing the problem then just exposing it. And yes I know it's not your job.....But someone has to start and you know more about what's broke and how to fix it.

This county could have the Nations premiere fire service IF more time is spent working towards a UNIFIED fire service then finding all the flaws in it.

We can't work together because of egos and attitudes. Budgets, call volume, and everything else notwithstanding, it all boils down to the fact that big egos won't let consolidation happen and lousy attitudes exist on both sides of the equation, including yours! Insulting Barry, one of the few people who has consistently lobbied for improvements in both fire and EMS in Westchester County is not only uncalled for (and a forum no-no), it's flat-out WRONG. For as long as I've been involved in Westchester, Barry has been more involved, teaching, consulting, mentoring, training, and stating the facts. He states the facts even when it wasn't in his department's best interest.

Barry is a great source of accurate information and has been used by many departments in the county to make improvements. He doesn't deserve your stupid snipe and his contributions to the emergency services in Westchester prove you wrong.

[lad12derff 283]

Chief Raftery, really has a "salty" look since he moved. .Looks like one of those Chiefs we use to be afraid of,

He does look a little salty but could never give an interview on TV as well as Snotty could.

[61MACKBR1 222]

I, too agree, that there is no need to bash anyone on this forum, especally Barry from NRFD. He has been a proponent for improving the Fire Service in Westchester County. However, I will agree with the original poster that "County Consolidation" of Fire Services throughout Westchester County would put the county on the National Map as being one of the best. Sadly, in order for this to ever get off the ground, egos (both within the Paid and Volunteer Departmenets) and Political Red-Tape (Government and Unions) would have to put aside, for the sake of "John and Jane Doe Taxpayer" who would be the ones who would beneft the most from a Combined Countywide Department.

One still can wish !!!

We can't work together because of egos and attitudes. Budgets, call volume, and everything else notwithstanding, it all boils down to the fact that big egos won't let consolidation happen and lousy attitudes exist on both sides of the equation, including yours! Insulting Barry, one of the few people who has consistently lobbied for improvements in both fire and EMS in Westchester County is not only uncalled for (and a forum no-no), it's flat-out WRONG. For as long as I've been involved in Westchester, Barry has been more involved, teaching, consulting, mentoring, training, and stating the facts. He states the facts even when it wasn't in his department's best interest.

Barry is a great source of accurate information and has been used by many departments in the county to make improvements. He doesn't deserve your stupid snipe and his contributions to the emergency services in Westchester prove you wrong.

Edited September 23, 2013 by 61MACKBR1

[wraftery 1,275]

He does look a little salty but could never give an interview on TV as well as Snotty could.

True. It is because Snotty had a proclivity for uncommon words or phrases that no one could equal.

[wraftery 1,275]

Look at Virginia Beach, a premier Fire Department. VB was Princess Anne County with many volunteer departments, The city of Norfolk was attempting to acquire surrounding communities which did not sit well with those people. In 1963, Virginia Beach incorporated into a City/County and created the VBFD, taking all those smaller departments into one single department.

I think Westchester could be the same but it would take a major consolidation of Cities, towns, villages prior to it happening it the 56 FD's.

The Departments that consolidate would not lose officers or firefighters. There would be one Chief but other Chiefs of departments just would be re-titled and put in charge of districts or admin duties. A larger department needs a bigger staff. Just think...no duplication of services like Tech Rescue, Hazmat, etc.

Sorry...just dreamin'

[kinkchaser 352]

The Chief of any Combined Regional or Countywide Fire Department hasn't been born yet

[lad12derff 283]

True. It is because Snotty had a proclivity for uncommon words or phrases that no one could equal.

I once heard him ask a person at a major incident if he had won his company in a card game. I almost pi$$ed my bunkers laughing!!