New Westchester County Airport Vehicle Designation

[dwcfireman 656]

Hello, All! To start this topic off, the Westchester County Airport will be aquiring a new suburban/tahoe type vehicle as an on-duty chief vehicle. It seems that we are making a move to take the duty chief out of Airport 7 and put him/her into a command vehicle, and the 2 on-duty firefighters will independently operate Airport 7 & 11. In my mind, this is a good move, but we'll stay with originial concern of what to call this new command vehicle.

From what I understand, we cannot use a designamtion like "Airport 1" because the vehicle will not have a direct aircraft rescue firefighting capability, and at the suggestion of the county to instead use the four digit chief designation (i.e. 2411, Purchase FD chief). The designation for the airport is 259X.

So, here's the question I want to ask the experts: What designation should we use?

In my thinking, my manager/airport fire chief would be 2591, since he's the highest ranking officer in our brigade. However, he doesn't respond to aircraft emergencies unless it's an actual crash (which hasn't happend on the field in a LONG time (*knock on wood)). My initial though is to designate our new command vehicle as 2592, much like New Rochelle uses 2302, and White Plains uses 2512, etc. for their on-duty chief/DC.

On the other hand, we also want a radio handle that we can use with the air traffic control tower (ATCT), as well. Because the duty chief/supervisor will be using this vehicle for both FAA safety inspections and emergency response, we want to have a callsign that can describe the vehicle in both emergency and non-emergency situations. For example, when I take Airport 11 out for a pump test I still use "Airport 11" as my call sign for the ATCT, and I use the same callsign when talking to 60 Control. Now, here's the kicker, we can't just identify a vehicle to ATC with just a number; it must have a identifying word with it (i.e. OPS 24, jetBlue914, Airport 7, etc.).

I want to hear what you guys think, so we can figure out what to call our new car.

[hatr1k 6]

Could he use "Car 2592" instead of just "2592"? That should satisfy the requirements you listed.

[SteveOFD 176]

Looking at this web page http://arffwg.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ARFF-Professional-Designation-Program.pdf, Airport Fire Officer seems to be a new designation for ARFF operations.

"Airport Fire Officer 259x", "AFO 259x", "Fire 259x", "Duty Officer 259x" could be some suggestions.

[Arbrow06 5]

Looking at this web page http://arffwg.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ARFF-Professional-Designation-Program.pdf, Airport Fire Officer seems to be a new designation for ARFF operations.

"Airport Fire Officer 259x", "AFO 259x", "Fire 259x", "Duty Officer 259x" could be some suggestions.

Agreed. Fire 259X is great for airport ops and then use a separate designation when dealing with 60 Control if need be. Isn't so hard to remember to use two different designators.

[thebreeze 194]

Agreed. Fire 259X is great for airport ops and then use a separate designation when dealing with 60 Control if need be. Isn't so hard to remember to use two different designators.

Yeah, not so hard, until an aircraft crashes and the sky pretty much falls on your head. Why not just keep it simple so when the world turns upside down you don't have to think about it, it's one thing, you're used to it, and you don't have to worry about messing it up.

[Arbrow06 5]

Yeah, not so hard, until an aircraft crashes and the sky pretty much falls on your head. Why not just keep it simple so when the world turns upside down you don't have to think about it, it's one thing, you're used to it, and you don't have to worry about messing it up.

I have done air traffic control at one point in my life albeit virtually and it is highly likely that saying 2592 you are clear for a pump test will cause chaos at a small airport. I would recommend a communication convention similar to service trucks for the sake of ATC keeping track of things and use the 2592 or whatever county designation for use with 60-control. If you are a chief and you only ever respond in the vehicle when the plane crashes I don't see this as a huge issue.

In conclusion,

Fire 2592 for ATC

2592 for 60 Control

[thebreeze 194]

Virtually? I don't even want to pay attention after that. Did you also stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? I've virtually shot down a plane, I don't try giving fighter pilots advice, I've virtually won the Super Bowl, I'm not offering coaching tips to Tom Coughlan. I've actually spoken on the radio at large scale incidents as well as run of the mill incidents, I've been on both ends of the radio, command and front line, and the simpler and easier it is, the more second nature it is to you, the better it works out when everything is going wrong.

Edited September 4, 2013 by thebreeze

[Jybehofd 85]

Use a 60 control ID And then have an airport radio ID/handle/call sign. Alot of agencies have different radio IDs when they are not using any 60 control radio.

[E106MKFD 56]

Looking at this web page http://arffwg.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ARFF-Professional-Designation-Program.pdf, Airport Fire Officer seems to be a new designation for ARFF operations.

"Airport Fire Officer 259x", "AFO 259x", "Fire 259x", "Duty Officer 259x" could be some suggestions.

I like Steve's idea. What’s the issue with having one designation for both even if it may have Airport Fire Officer or AFO in front of a four digit number? It is simple to have just one identifier that satisfies each requirement. Occasionally you will hear nontraditional units on 60 Control Channels give agency and identifier (Ex. WCPD Marine 3). I don't see the issue with transmitting with 60 Control as example Airport Fire Officer 2591.

In addition I think for a four digit number you should go for the 2591. If he is considered the chief of the brigade why not go for 2591?

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

When I go the the airport I just want someone to answer !

[dwcfireman 656]

Looking at this web page http://arffwg.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ARFF-Professional-Designation-Program.pdf, Airport Fire Officer seems to be a new designation for ARFF operations.

The AFO program is through a certification through a private organization that actually has no bearing to whether a person is a fire officer or not. It's another one of those weird things you find in the aviation industry, but I do like where you headed with the idea.

Fire 2592 for ATC

2592 for 60 Control

I'm liking this idea...but, I want to refrain from using the word FIRE on the ATC radio. That word panics a lot of people who are not anywhere near involved in airfield emergencies.

When I go the the airport I just want someone to answer !

I would answer, but I'm not the duty chief.

[wraftery 1,275]

How does Airport Command sound?

(or does it sound too much like we are using the ICS)

[INIT915 1,119]

I'm not sure if I should be comforted or frightened that these are the kinds of things keeping airport managers up at night?

[mlcougar2001 8]

In my opinion as a current employee of 60 control... Call yourself whatever you want just tell us in advance so we know who u are.... as far as management is concerned you have to ask them i'm just a little guy (well in payscale)...

[Dinosaur 844]

Hello, All! To start this topic off, the Westchester County Airport will be aquiring a new suburban/tahoe type vehicle as an on-duty chief vehicle. It seems that we are making a move to take the duty chief out of Airport 7 and put him/her into a command vehicle, and the 2 on-duty firefighters will independently operate Airport 7 & 11. In my mind, this is a good move, but we'll stay with originial concern of what to call this new command vehicle.

From what I understand, we cannot use a designamtion like "Airport 1" because the vehicle will not have a direct aircraft rescue firefighting capability, and at the suggestion of the county to instead use the four digit chief designation (i.e. 2411, Purchase FD chief). The designation for the airport is 259X.

So, here's the question I want to ask the experts: What designation should we use?

In my thinking, my manager/airport fire chief would be 2591, since he's the highest ranking officer in our brigade. However, he doesn't respond to aircraft emergencies unless it's an actual crash (which hasn't happend on the field in a LONG time (*knock on wood)). My initial though is to designate our new command vehicle as 2592, much like New Rochelle uses 2302, and White Plains uses 2512, etc. for their on-duty chief/DC.

On the other hand, we also want a radio handle that we can use with the air traffic control tower (ATCT), as well. Because the duty chief/supervisor will be using this vehicle for both FAA safety inspections and emergency response, we want to have a callsign that can describe the vehicle in both emergency and non-emergency situations. For example, when I take Airport 11 out for a pump test I still use "Airport 11" as my call sign for the ATCT, and I use the same callsign when talking to 60 Control. Now, here's the kicker, we can't just identify a vehicle to ATC with just a number; it must have a identifying word with it (i.e. OPS 24, jetBlue914, Airport 7, etc.).

I want to hear what you guys think, so we can figure out what to call our new car.

Personally I don't think the airport manager should be depicted as a fire chief because his airport fire brigade training is dwarfed by the amount of training a fire chief gets. Look at the Port Authority, they just got told the PD can't be an FD at the airport so they need to hire a real fire chief. Saying that the airport manager, a bureaucrat, administrator, politician (at times) and manager is a fire chief goes right along with the statement about staying at a Holiday Inn Express last night. This is not a shot at the guy personally, but he's not a fire chief. That's a secondary duty and one that has been given only superficial attention for years.

I am glad to see the airport has finally realized that the IC needs to be the IC and not the initial attack guy at the end of a snozzle. That's a step forward. Now if they could trade in his truck for a desk in the ICP, you'd really be on the right track.

If there's a crash inside the airport perimeter, does the ATC handle really matter? They're going to be closing the place anyway. Call it FIRE 1 - that will get everyone's attention - when there is a crash. The rest of the time call it OPS 1 or IHOP 1 (breakfast time) or Whopper 1 (lunchtime). Once the you know what hits the fan, his title should be AIRPORT COMMAND!

Geez....

[dwcfireman 656]

How does Airport Command sound?

(or does it sound too much like we are using the ICS)

Unfortunately this will create confusion once the ICP is activated (once mutual aid companies arrive). We thought about that and many other variations of it.

[dwcfireman 656]

If there's a crash inside the airport perimeter, does the ATC handle really matter? They're going to be closing the place anyway. Call it FIRE 1 - that will get everyone's attention - when there is a crash. The rest of the time call it OPS 1 or IHOP 1 (breakfast time) or Whopper 1 (lunchtime). Once the you know what hits the fan, his title should be AIRPORT COMMAND!

Geez....

The car won't be staffed by the Airport manager or the Operations manager, but by the duty chief/supervisor on shift. And it will be considered AIRPORT COMMAND only until the ICP is activated in the dilapidated trailer that we keep fixing. Once the ICP is activated that unit has to go back to whatever designation we decide upon.

As far as the ATC handle, it's extremely important because we don't have crashes all the time, let alone many alerts. We have to have an identifying handle so ATC, aircraft, and other vehicles are aware of our movements. Yes, when a crash does happen our policy is to close the airport, but that's going to be a once in a career event (aviation is so over regulated that it's safer than ever!). And as stated earlier, we're straying away from the FIRE handle because it will cause too much chaos when we have a small emergency.

As for the Port Authority issue, that's completely different from the situation of having an operation manager as a fire chief. Their issue fell back on a lack of documentation for training. Plus, your mention of how a fire chief shouldn't be a politician, in my opinion, is false. A fire chief IS a politician.

[dwcfireman 656]

For everyone out there, thank you for your responses. The leading response for us right now is to use Car 2592, but there's always the chance that my boss will make up his own anyway. Thank you again, and continue doing what you do best!

[Biggins415 6]

heres what they do in dutchess county and see what you think- ALL the vehicles on the airport field have an airport designated number to talk to the tower-ex. ground truck 53- and in emergency's they have a county designated number-the crash truck is 9211 when talking to county dispatch and when there out on the field its just plain airport rescue 1 when talking to the tower - if the chief is out on the field in a non emergency mode and not in contact with county dispatch he used the airport designated ground truck number

[wraftery 1,275]

Unfortunately this will create confusion once the ICP is activated (once mutual aid companies arrive). We thought about that and many other variations of it.

No confusion if you are using ICS properly. The airport on-duty person is Airport Command until Command is assumed by another person. The original airport boss is assigned another duty such as Operations.

Since airports are under the federal rulebook, you are supposed to go by ICS as a command system.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Since airports are under the federal rulebook, you are supposed to go by ICS as a command system.

Westchester County superceeds the federal rulebook. as we consider the home rulebook a more important document.

[wraftery 1,275]

Westchester County superceeds the federal rulebook. as we consider the home rulebook a more important document.

You may be right. In reading this thread, it looks like Westchester has their own command system unlike any other, Instead of people running things at the airport, a small truck is in charge until a big tent shows up and makes the little truck disappear.