Fires in Structures with Solar Panels

[SOUSGT 357]

The Dietz and Watson fire brings up a new concern:

According to the incident commander:

At first only the insulation in the roof was on fire but the energized solar panels kept firefighters from getting on the top of the building.

"If we had a flat roof with nothing on top we could have gotten up and trenched, it's common practice but with all that power and energy up there, I can't jeopardize a guy's life for that," said Chief Ron Holt, Delanco Fire Department.

With the growing popularity of solar panels, have any departments started formulating protocols for fighting fires were solar panels are present? They can present problems of their own.

• Do we know what is inside them?
• How will they react to flames?
• Many are reverse connected to the power grid as the location sells its excess output to the local power grid.

[JM15 386]

I have looked at issues with solar panels before as they keep popping up in our district. One of the biggest concerns was the weight loading, enegized electrical parts, and the lack of access for vertical ventilation.

[M' Ave 1,466]

We've seen the, popping up around the Bronx on everything from warehouses to we construction and private houses. When on Building Inspection duty, company's are adding the panels existence to CIDS and also noting the existence and location of the shutoff, battery backups and generators.

They do preclude vertical venting and we do not use them as a substantial object for roof rope evolutions. The most important thing to remember is that the panel is always producing electricity. You can disconnect it from the grid. There is a knife switch, usually by the meter. However, the panels and wires connecting them are always live.

[antiquefirelt 994]

No doubt this is a topic that's going to affect all of us at some point.

Here's a piece from FH.com today: http://www.firehouse.com/news/11138735/boulder-firefighters-builders-reach-compromise-on-solar-panels

I'm not convinced a 30" wide strip up the center of the roof or along the ridge allows for proper vent placement for every fire, but then again cutting the roof isn't our primary ventilation tactic in most PDs, unless the fire is in the "A".

[PEMO3 523]

I know we have touched on the effect of panels on roof for ventilation activity. One area that may be even more prevalent is an electrical fire in the panels themselves. How do you handle it? What special issues aside for the live electrical environment are present - toxins, hazardous chemicals, etc. What type of fire suppression is recommended by the manufactures?

[everybodygoes 331]

This chief has no clue, what saw does he posses that will cut through a metal deck roof?

[firemoose827 324]

As an assistant chief I have never worked with these or went to a fire involving them. They are in my area on PD's but have never dealt with them. This is a good wake up call for me to have something at drill about these.

All good points and good information being shared, please keep it up, anyone else have more?

Stay Safe.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

This chief has no clue, what saw does he posses that will cut through a metal deck roof?

Hand saw ?

[everybodygoes 331]

I think a good cross cut saw will get through it no problem! If you all lookup I think its NEWXalerts on facebook they have photos of this mess. We are all lucky no one was hurt!

[16fire5 693]

UL researched the subject and has both a report and online learning module on the subject specifically for firefighters.

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fire/fireservice/pvsystems/

[dwcfireman 656]

I've thought about this while looking at different houses (in the hopes that one day I can afford to buy one ). I think it would be a great idea if people could build and open structure in the back yard, and mount the solar panels on that. You'd have a nice covered area for BBQ's when it rains, and you can power your house!

But, seriously, I couldn't imagine going up to the roof in winter time, not knowing the panels are there, and accidentally cut into one.

[everybodygoes 331]

You will notice the roof. Saw one recently on a 4 on 12 pitch roof in the Bronx, that one you could barely see, but once you got up there you would notice the elevated platform.

[dwcfireman 656]

You will notice the roof. Saw one recently on a 4 on 12 pitch roof in the Bronx, that one you could barely see, but once you got up there you would notice the elevated platform.

I was thinking more like winter time when the ice cakes over everything. Some panels are actually quite thin.

[fitzjr11 17]

Talk about a timely Seminar

The Firemen’s Association of the State of New York in conjunction with Brendan Dunn of Deep Blue Training Associates, Presents

Solar Power Awareness and Operational Safety

This 2 hour class is targeted officers, public officials and persons generally interested in the fire service. This new course will cover the following topics:

•Different types of solar energy and how they operate

•Components and Hazards of Photovoltaic Solar Systems

•Operational Safety when working near these systems

•Code requirements of Photovoltaic Solar Systems that affect firedepartments

•A review of fire incidents with Photovoltaic Solar System involvement

Monday, October 7, 2013

Putnam County Training and Operations Center

112 Old Route 6

Carmel, NY 10512

How to Register:

1.Web: www.fasny.com and follow the Training and Education Link.

OR

2.Email: training@fasny.com

OR

3.Phone: 1-800-232-7692

Pre-Registration Fee: $20 for FASNY members* $30 for non-FASNY members*

Pre-registration cutoff: Sept. 30, 2013

Walk-In Fee:$30 regardless of membership status (If space is available)

*No-shows are non-refundable and cancellations are non-refundable unless received five business days prior to the event.

[JetPhoto 626]

Looking at the roof, they had just a few solar panels

[SOUSGT 357]

Looking at the roof, they had just a few solar panels

Dietz and Watson.jpg

From this picture, It looks like the IC made a good call. One would think that with the almost total obscuration, they would have installed some vents with fusible links for ventilation. But I guess no one ever thinks their place will burn.

[pjgold14 3]

UL researched the subject and has both a report and online learning module on the subject specifically for firefighters.

http://www.ul.com/gl...vice/pvsystems/

This is a great study by UL.... Very informative!! However, accurate knowledge of the operations of a commercial or residential PV systems must be present in order to create adequate protocols for your department. According to UL we can now fight fires that involve these solar modules, but proper techniques MUST BE used. DC electricity is not our friend, nor is the increased weight load!

[wdl124 0]

Have done a number of installs on the electric side. There is always a DC and AC disconnect installed some where. DC is sometimes in the inverter and only disconnects the feeds from the panels from the inverter. Depending on system the panels and wires from them may remain energized (even at night due to flood lighting). AC disconnect should by near the existing service disconnect or outside meter. Some systems will deenergize the roof panels when power is removed but not always. DC panels have up 500 Volts. Cutting thru them is not a good idea! Conuit and wire on interior of attic is required to be 10" from roof surface so you dont get hit when cutting open. Disconnect information is suppose posted at meter and service mains. As for clearence working on roof, NYC has some consideration for fire fighting but have not run it to any outside of NYC.

[wdl124 0]

1. http://www.ul.com/global/documents/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fireservice/PV-FF_SafetyFinalReport.pdf