Brotherhood in the Fire Service

[dave0820 50]

My kids are all grown now, but when they were younger and before cell phones, I always told them that if for any reason they were in trouble and needed help, go the nearest fire station and tell them that their dad is a fireman and they would help them. I would hope that fire fighters today with young kids still have that feeling.

[roofsopen19 34]

I respect your opinion and agree with it for the most part. But I will respectfully ask you this; please do not group all of us in this 80% group that you have experienced until you have actually worked with all of us.

I may not be at the firehouse as much as I want to be, or I may not have fought as many fires as you have fought, but I have fought fires, I have done searches for victims many times and have found them, but not the way I wanted to find them and its multiple images I will never get rid of and a source of pain for my pride that I could not help these people. I train hard, harder than any other volunteer in my department, and currently hold many titles that i will not waste time posting. I take pride in what I do and was brought up the right way with that sense of brotherhood, and I learned that brotherhood from those three career FDNY guys I had the priviledge of working with my first 4 years in the fire service on Long Island and will never forget them.

Im not your typical volunteer, and there are others here on this site that are not the typical volunteer either. Dont get me wrong, there are the wackers here that "Play" volunteer fireman, and dress up and think its cool to play with sirens and deck their cars out with all sorts of strobes and flashers and blinky things...not me. I take it seriously. Im one of the volunteers that strongly agree we should have the same training standards and physical fitness requirements that career firefighters have and am actively fighting that with letters to my government reps and FASNY. I blog about it in another firefighters web site I go to frequently as well and try to get others to agree.

I enter the same burning buildings with the same turnout gear and the same set of irons and the same hose line and I agressively attack the seat of the fire just like I am trained to do.

I think the brotherhood has been killed by situations like these (the above mentioned experiences between volunteer and career members). If you look at my experience with the 4 career staff at the large main street fire, should he realy have acted that way towords me? Especially since most would think a young guy like me should be the one picking up the hose instead of the more experienced member? I was doing what my father and other senior guys taught me all my life; respect the senior men and officers, always jump in and help any firefighter no matter what the job, and always be first to volunteer for any assignment.

I am thankfull for all of the replies on this topic as well as all of the messages I received from members regarding brotherhood and sharing your stories with me too. I respect all of your opinions and I am thankfull no major wars have been started yet. Keep the discussion going and share more brotherhood experiences and stay safe. Have a great weekend too!

I'm not comparing you to an "80 percent guy" nor am I comparing anyone on this website to anyone I described. Clearly you are a very active member of your department.

[FFPCogs 863]

You know this is quite simple when you come right down to it. Brotherhood is really just remembering to follow a few core tenets:

Treat others as you want to be treated.

Remember we're here to serve so put others above yourself

The wants and needs of the many outweigh the wants and needs of the few...or the one.

Everyone has a place to serve and all service is valuable and important even if only in small amounts.

I am who and what I am in the fire service because of those who came before me and those who serve with me.

WE are the fire service, I am only one very small part of it.

Edited August 30, 2013 by FFPCogs

[wraftery 1,275]

Brotherhood Test:

Here's how you test a firehouse to see if they are Brothers or not.

Send your daughter to a firehouse at 0200 with a flat tire and explaining that her father is a firefighter and he is working tonight.

If they point to a 24hr towing service down the street or give her the number for AAA, they are not Brothers.

If they tell her to pull around back, change the flat, change the oil, rotate the tires, wash the windshield, and give her a cup of coffee and a piece of cake. Then they are Brothers.

[Bnechis 3,961]

 

Brotherhood Test:

Here's how you test a firehouse to see if they are Brothers or not.

Send your daughter to a firehouse at 0200 with a flat tire and explaining that her father is a firefighter and he is working tonight.

If they point to a 24hr towing service down the street or give her the number for AAA, they are not Brothers.

If they tell her to pull around back, change the flat, change the oil, rotate the tires, wash the windshield, and give her a cup of coffee and a piece of cake. Then they are Brothers.

 

If you need to test them, I do not think you should be sending your daughter there. you either know it or you do not

[FirNaTine 370]

Brotherhood Test:

Here's how you test a firehouse to see if they are Brothers or not.

Send your daughter to a firehouse at 0200 with a flat tire and explaining that her father is a firefighter and he is working tonight.

If they point to a 24hr towing service down the street or give her the number for AAA, they are not Brothers.

If they tell her to pull around back, change the flat, change the oil, rotate the tires, wash the windshield, and give her a cup of coffee and a piece of cake. Then they are Brothers.

How about if they ask her for her number?

[nfd2004 750]

In a comparison of Brotherhood today vs the 70s or 80s here's a story. Maybe this gives an idea of how things have changed.

Last year or so I was invited to visit a firehouse, which actually is one of the busiest in Connecticut. My brother was a career firefighter there during the late 70s and into the 80s. In the kitchen was this very large table. Everybody ate there. Once in awhile he would invite me down to visit. The jokes, laughter, and entertainment was priceless. Everybody joined in except maybe the "probie" who was told to keep his mouth shut until he proves himself.

When I went down to that same firehouse, the guy that invited me showed me the kitchen where I used to join the members. Then he just left me. It was quite different from what I remembered back in those days. Nobody was talking. Either they were on their cell phones texting or talking, or watching a TV. Also, I noticed gone was that big kitchen table that everybody used to share the meal on. Now every individual was sitting by themselves with their own little table in front of them. The only guy that talked to me was the Captain who I had known for years and was good friends with his brother.

I walked in as a retired firefighter from another city in Connecticut. Yeah, I'm an old guy now. No more fires for me and I remember when we didn't go to medical calls. What little hair I have left is all white now and my belly isn't as tight as it should be. I walk a little slower too, but you would think I was some bum off the street. If it wasn't for thaty captain that I knew, I would have left after ten minutes because I felt very uncorfortable there. Nobody even asked about my brother who spent maybe 15 years there and retired as a B/C. (and he did have a good reputation).

A little different story to compare. About two years ago the New London, Ct Fire Dept transported me to the hospital in New London for a medical condition. During the two weeks I was there, guys from the job, who I didn't even know stopped by. Everyday, somebody was there. They would bring me coffees etc. They were concerned for my car where I had to leave it and "they" brought it to the firehouse parking lot where it was much safer. Those guys from New London F.D. treated me great. In this case, I saw that Brotherhood is Alive and Well. And every once in awhile, they invite me to the firehouse, as a Retired Brother, and they are not concerned that maybe my belly isn't as tight as it used to be.

And I have to say, my Brothers always welcome me to the firehouse where I spent a few years on the job there. Most I of them I never worked with, but they treat me good.

I was a volunteer firefighter in a combo dept back in the early 70s. We all got along great, volunteer and paid. When I moved to another part of Connecticut in those 70s, I entered a War Zone. People I didn't even know hated me for the job I did. It still really hasn't changed. Brotherhood doesn't exist. Same today as it was then.

My brother who retired from that very busy dept I mentioned earlier as a Battalion Chief, wanted to join the local volunteer dept when he moved up to this area. He lived about a block away from the firehouse, was able to go to calls 24/7, and always had a mop in his hand to clean up after any event. I thought that this small dept had won the lottery when they got him. He had been a driver and officer on the exact same type of Ladder truck during his career that they had. "His orders were; "Don't you touch that Ladder Truck".

One time at a mutual aid fire they couldn't get the ladder down. Guess who figured out what was wrong and was able to get it down ? On another night that Ladder truck was requested to respond mutual aid to another fire. He was at the firehouse with three other younger members who couldn't operate that truck. The chief had been out plowing snow and told him face to face, "Don't you touch that ladder truck". As a result, that ladder truck NEVER responded to that fire. He was also never allowed to drive any of the other trucks. He stuck it out for about two years. I would have lasted two weeks, maybe !

There are many more stories both good and bad. The term Brotherhood should not even be questioned. It should just be there. When you work together and you survive together, Brotherhood takes on a thing of its own. You work together through good and bad times. If you talk about each other, it was in a joking manner. Today because of society, that's not always possible. In my opinion as a result instead of uniting it has created dividing.

For the younger people out there whether career or volunteer, it may be hard to understand how different and how great it once was. I can only say, just take my word for it.

[wraftery 1,275]

How about if they ask her for her number?

After the tire change is done,she would say "My father's a Chief" and somehow they don't want her number anymore.

[FirNaTine 370]

After the tire change is done,she would say "My father's a Chief" and somehow they don't want her number anymore.

Not if they wanted to get back at you for something.

[everybodygoes 331]

Its not the same outside of NYC. Guy I was carpooling with stopped at firehouse I believe in greenburgh, it was off 119 about a block in on the right side of the street. We asked if it would be ok to leave a car there as we both were driving to work together. What were we told? Ask the chief?! Ask the Chief? We were parking a hyundai or an infiniti not a motorhome 24/7. Ironically, went to Greenburgh PD, were told by a sgt there, NO PROBLEM, if you have any issues come inside. We had a guy who was on his Harley stop at firehouse who rode in from Cali for 9/11. He wanted to obviously go downtown, we insisted he leave bike in quarters as we couldn't guarantee parking or safety of the bike downtown, smaller firehouses etc. He was extremely grateful. I was taught you always treat anyone who isn't assigned to your firehouse as a guest, the mechanic, the radio repairman, even the exterminator all given the offer of coffee something to eat, some heat or ac, anything so when he remembers YOUR firehouse he says those guys are great!

[Remember585 815]

The brotherhood is still there. However social media outlets where guys can go and cry about mundane immature stuff that should be kept in house and worked out has ruined a lot of it.

And - no disrespect to this website - places like this where everyone climbs on to their high horses and points fingers PUBLICLY instead of manning up and shooting a brother a private message, calling them or dropping in to their firehouse to talk to them man to man has ruined a lot of what we all used to know.

I appreciate the things I have learned here and on other websites. I have made great friends and taken what I picked up here and put it to good use. However, there has been more drama for me and my department because of sites like this, Facebook and Myspace when it was still around. I have been accused of doing things I didn't. My department and members of it have been falsely or inaccurately implicated in things they didn't do. Friendships and professional relationships with neighboring departments have been tested, strained or ruined when someone sees/hears something and reacts to it before knowing the facts.

We live in the information age. Everyone can hide behind a keyboard and be an expert on everything. They can call someone out for something with little to no facts, denouncing them to their easily impressionable audience.

Let this be a lesson to all of you up and coming members of the fire service - WORK YOUR PROBLEMS OUT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF YOUR FIREHOUSE! If you can't say something to someone face to face, DON'T SAY IT!

And to be "politically correct," we're not a brotherhood anymore. Many females have joined our ranks and proven to be exceptional parts of our department families. I like to say that the fire department is a family, and like the families we've been born into, we don't always agree, we don't even always like each other, but at the end of the day - we are (or should be) there for one another when the chips are down.

I'm done. Thanks for listening.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I am not always liked, and often say things that offend people. It comes with a deep sense of pride in what I do and the department I am proud to be a part of. But, at the end of the day, I can sleep knowing I do what is best for my people and what's in the best interest of keeping our department going strong for years to come.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Remember585

[nfd2004 750]

As a very young guy several years ago, NYC was actually the first place I learned about Brotherhood.

I didn't read about it in a book or by sitting in a classroom. I learned it from a tight group of guys who respected me as much as I respected them.

[FFPCogs 863]

Pretty fitting here I think......

Do you recognize this man? Do you know his name?

Lots of people know he’s an actor, and that his name is Steve Buscemi.

What very few people realize is that he was once one of New York’s Bravest.

In 1976 Steve Buscemi took the FDNY civil service test when he was just 18 years old. In 1980 Steve Buscemi became a New York City Firefighter.

For four years, Buscemi served on one of FDNY's busiest, Engine Co. 55 in Manhattan's Little Italy. He later left the fire service to become a successful actor, writer and director.

After 9/11/2001... Brother Buscemi returned to FDNY Engine 55.

On September 12, 2001 and for several days following Brother Steve worked 12-hour shifts alongside other firefighters digging and sifting through the rubble from the World Trade Center looking for survivors.

Very few photographs and no interviews exist because he declined them. He wasn't there for the publicity.

In 2003 he also gave a speech at a union rally supporting higher wages for firefighters and to stop fire houses from closing. He got arrested along with other firefighters.

Also not very well known is that in 2012 Brother Buscemi showed up in Breezy Point, NY and quietly assisted in the clean-up efforts of the damage and mass destruction left by Super Storm Sandy.

Once a brother, always a brother!

Just so we're clear… this guy is a Badass !!!

Tip of the helmet Brother Steve!

Jonathan Lusk
Publisher ~ Brotherhood of Fire
Captain ~ Fresno Fire, CA ~ E18C

“Brotherhood Strong”

[firemoose827 324]

Pretty fitting here I think......

1186095_624804580886536_1335029643_n.jpg

Do you recognize this man? Do you know his name?

Lots of people know he’s an actor, and that his name is Steve Buscemi.

What very few people realize is that he was once one of New York’s Bravest.

In 1976 Steve Buscemi took the FDNY civil service test when he was just 18 years old. In 1980 Steve Buscemi became a New York City Firefighter.

For four years, Buscemi served on one of FDNY's busiest, Engine Co. 55 in Manhattan's Little Italy. He later left the fire service to become a successful actor, writer and director.

After 9/11/2001... Brother Buscemi returned to FDNY Engine 55.

On September 12, 2001 and for several days following Brother Steve worked 12-hour shifts alongside other firefighters digging and sifting through the rubble from the World Trade Center looking for survivors.

Very few photographs and no interviews exist because he declined them. He wasn't there for the publicity.

In 2003 he also gave a speech at a union rally supporting higher wages for firefighters and to stop fire houses from closing. He got arrested along with other firefighters.

Also not very well known is that in 2012 Brother Buscemi showed up in Breezy Point, NY and quietly assisted in the clean-up efforts of the damage and mass destruction left by Super Storm Sandy.

Once a brother, always a brother!

Just so we're clear… this guy is a Badass !!!

Tip of the helmet Brother Steve!

Jonathan Lusk

Publisher ~ Brotherhood of Fire

Captain ~ Fresno Fire, CA ~ E18C

“Brotherhood Strong”

Thank you cogs, you beat me to it.

I never knew that about him, but I will watch all of his movies now and respect him a lot more. That to me is a true test of brotherhood...here you have a famous actor, successfull, he could have very easily made a big spectacle out of it with video cameras and taking pictures of him in his gear shaking babies and kissing hands and "helping" his former work buddies dig through the pile. But he didnt. He kept his identity secret and did what he knew was right and went to look for the guys that were lost and never made it public. THATS brotherhood.

[AFS1970 504]

More than a few years ago, talking with someone from a different department than I was in, he told me of a plan to renovate part of their meeting hall into a new day room. I asked why as the building had recently had an extension put on that added a new day room as well as other rooms. His answer was so that the volunteers would have somewhere to hang out. I had been to that station and sat in the day room with both volunteer and paid firefighters, so this was kind of confusing. However the clear sentiment was one of building a wall of separation.

This is not brotherhood.

The idea that you might have two groups in the same firehouse hanging out in two different rooms then meeting in the dark of night on the apparatus floor and expecting to work as a cohesive crew makes no sense to me. I suppose this is a slightly more dramatic form of everyone off on their own with cellphones or laptops.

However the guy who told me of the two day rooms plan plan is a brother. We have been to training together and later at fires and other calls together. I would work side by side with him again any time. He is now a career firefighter.

[everybodygoes 331]

You can not compare it with a combination dept. One guy is doing for free what you are doing to feed your family. I would not want to sit with a guy who would be the one stealing the fork out of my mouth, or worse my wife's! Outside of the work place setting is where you see it. But at work you are at work, where you get paid to do your job. And to be honest, the 'brotherhood' is about what happens when you are not at work, not being paid to do something, that is what makes it so special. I have helped at guys houses I hated, why? Cause its not about personalities, it is about the bond that if I need help they would be there too.

[firemoose827 324]

You can not compare it with a combination dept. One guy is doing for free what you are doing to feed your family. I would not want to sit with a guy who would be the one stealing the fork out of my mouth, or worse my wife's! Outside of the work place setting is where you see it. But at work you are at work, where you get paid to do your job. And to be honest, the 'brotherhood' is about what happens when you are not at work, not being paid to do something, that is what makes it so special. I have helped at guys houses I hated, why? Cause its not about personalities, it is about the bond that if I need help they would be there too.

Here is where I do not agree with some of you guys...this is a bit wrong on all levels. If you are career in a combination department and you feel "threatened" by the volunteers that might "take your job away" there is more issues there then you know. If I was a volunteer in a career combination department I would not be trying to take anyones job. I would have my resume in for when there are openings from retirement or someone moving out of the area, but I would never try to back-stab a brother who is already being paid for the job. I am still going to be volunteer and have tremendous pride in being able to respond to calls and help where I can, but would never step on the toes of the career crew, or back-stab them in any way. If this is happening; SHAME on those members.

But on the other hand; SHAME on those career guys simply for thinking that just because a volunteer shows up, they are taking the "fork" out of your mouths. They are showing up to help you, back you up and make sure you all go home at the end of the shift so you CAN pick up that fork with your family. We should alll WORK TOGETHER, dont you think??? This thinking is all wrong and I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here either, but those of us volunteers that take pride in our training and pride in our ability to help others only want to help; both the people we serve and our career brothers/sisters who are severely under-staffed and under-funded. I for one dont want to see any ONE career firefighter have to do EVERYTHING alone, I want to help, I want to make sure they dont get hurt, not back-stab them.

Maybe I am wrong in this line of thinking and i know there are those scum out there trying to take your job from you, everyone wants to be career firefighter and support their families doing a job they LOVE, but it shouldnt divide us...shouldnt it?

[everybodygoes 331]

Bottom line, if the volunteers don't show up, they HAVE to hire more members. It is cut and dry. Now if you volunteer somewhere and are professional fireman somewhere else, it doesnt apply. Look at the IAFF magazine, what do they add like 5 locals nationwide each issue, and those are already paid members without representation. If they said tomorrow they were adding paid staff where I volunteer I would quit as of 2359 tonight, and if you are in a union somewhere else and volunteer in the same place you are a scab.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Bottom line, if the volunteers don't show up, they HAVE to hire more members. It is cut and dry.

It's rarely quite that simple. In many cases, the municipality just goes on using mutual aid to a greater extent. Too few of the public understand the system that covers there homes and businesses. They do understand their paycheck and taxes. I agree that I'd not volunteer where anyone is paid or where it might effect a paid job, but working in a combination department for 18+ years I can tell you reality is far from cut and dry. Our Union whispered about squeezing the call firefighters out as they didn't trust their level of training and commitment. The question posed to them was would they rather trust volunteers from mutual aid departments that they had very little exposure to and had not trained with or the 'volunteers" with who they routinely trained, and worked under the same SOG's? Our FD is sooo far from having enough personnel to handle a decent job with on duty staff that the budget would have to triple to remote come close, a dose of reality. So, sometimes breaking bread with guys who are willing to make sure you get home to your wife in kids but go home after drill makes sense. Not everyone's reality is the same.

[AFS1970 504]

Another perspective on the paid-volunteer aspects of a combination department came from a career FF I was taking an EMT refresher with several years ago. He is a unique individual but in his own way is dedicated to his department both as a volunteer member and a career member, he served briefly as Chief while working there. He was adamantly against rules that limited the roles career FF's could have, as he said it did more to drive wedges and create different classes of FF than anything else. In my dept (as I said earlier) we limited how many career FF's could be officers. This guy bought up the point that if the best qualified guy was a career FF why force a less qualified officer. In a station where the officers are elected, why limit who the membership can vote for simply because they get paid? Especially when at the time the majority of career FF's were long time volunteers in those stations.

[FirNaTine 370]

I always like the Career guys who are anti Vollie but Volunteer in their home towns. Why? Because deep down inside they're buffs but won't ever admit it especially once they go "Paid"! Or the other reason is they want to keep their taxes down to which I say "HYPOCRATE!" As I always say nowadays anybody can put an IAFF sticker on their car and call themselves a so called "Professional". "Professional" my balls!

[everybodygoes 331]

I've been volunteering about 20 years and been getting paid for it for 12. I am not a hypocrite. Serving my community was something I believed in, people with your attitude just leach from the community and complain about their taxes going up from the gross appathy of people just like them! No way ever the town I live in will sustain a paid fire dept, ever, ambulance service yes, but no way they will double it up, not even a possibility.

[FirNaTine 370]

I've been volunteering about 20 years and been getting paid for it for 12. I am not a hypocrite. Serving my community was something I believed in, people with your attitude just leach from the community and complain about their taxes going up from the gross appathy of people just like them! No way ever the town I live in will sustain a paid fire dept, ever, ambulance service yes, but no way they will double it up, not even a possibility.

"QTIP"! Nobody said I was even talking about you. I get tired of the argument of "your taking food out of my family's mouth. Don't like guys Volunteering next to you switch Depts. and don't work for a Combo Dept. Guys I know who Volunteer do so cause their heart is into it and don't want to see their taxes go up to fund a Career Dept. that catches only a handful of Jobs a year anyway. yet these same individuals will run home after their tour and head straight for their neighborhood Firehouse where they Volunteer and then use the lame ass excuse "Well there's no Career guys in my Dept.. Gee I wonder why?

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) Bottom line, if the volunteers don't show up, they HAVE to hire more members. It is cut and dry.

2) Now if you volunteer somewhere and are professional fireman somewhere else, it doesnt apply.

3) Look at the IAFF magazine, what do they add like 5 locals nationwide each issue, and those are already paid members without representation.

4) and if you are in a union somewhere else and volunteer in the same place you are a scab.

1) There are approximatly 14 combo depts in Westchester that the number of volunteers has either drimaticly declined or has stopped responding alltogether ans no additional career members have been added, they just make the few career members do it all and violate 2in 2out and other standards and just hope they never get caught.

2) So if you are a career FF in dept #A and volunteer in Dept. #Z that does not potentially hurt the career brother? I think many of the statements here talk about how Brothers are not just in your dept.

3) Ok so 12 issues x 5 locals equals 60 new locals/ year. with over 34,000 fire depts in America, It will take over 566 years to convert all of them....Dont hold your breath waiting. Also I know a couiple of locals that have left and have come back (more than once) but they still get listed. And these are depts that were paid for 100 years. it just they were not IAFF locals.

4) The dept is also in violation of the Federal FLSA. And if they get caught they will have to pay OT wages for all the volunteer hours that that member and others volunteered once they were hired. This has come to millions and the member does not have to report it or even "want it". He still will get paid.

[FFPCogs 863]

Well I guess it's time for pitchforks and torches again...

I never could get the argument that volunteers are "taking food out of" a paid members mouth. If you're a career member in a combo dept, you show up, do your job for X number of hours and you go home. You get paid for the hours you work (the hours your contract states your entitled to at the salary you agreed to) no matter how many volunteers show up, or don't. How then are volunteers taking food out of anyone's mouth? And let's be clear overtime is NOT an entitlement, that's why it's called overtime.

Now a paid member volunteering in a combo dept. is quite another story if his volunteer service directly impacts a career members ability to earn his base salary.

As I stated earlier on, the most obvious (and detrimental) sign of the decline of brotherhood is the relationship between career and volunteer members. The more we accept or promote the divisive rationales like volunteers "take food" out of anyone's mouth or career members "are only in it for the money" the larger the gap and problems will grow

Fire away

[everybodygoes 331]

Sorry, if you are doing the work of two men you are a fool. Pride in workmanship means you do the one job the best you can, and that is not the work of two men.

And I am surrounded by Peekskill and Mohegan, I won't respond to either of them. Let them hire more men.

[FFPCogs 863]

Sorry, if you are doing the work of two men you are a fool. Pride in workmanship means you do the one job the best you can, and that is not the work of two men.

And I am surrounded by Peekskill and Mohegan, I won't respond to either of them. Let them hire more men.

Do what you must, as for me I will NEVER refuse a call for help no matter who it's from.

Stay Safe

[Bnechis 3,961]

Do what you must, as for me I will NEVER refuse a call for help no matter who it's from.

Stay Safe

Fair enough, But I know a number of mayors who will gladly reduce their depts. close companies, lay off, not do call back, ect. because the next community will shoulder the burdon, no matter how much "I" cut mine.

[everybodygoes 331]

And you my friend are a man who has no values. You have no clue what it means to feed your family from your trade, regardless if it is hanging sheetrock running conduit or leveling pipe. So your willingness to 'help' others is in fact NOT helping anyone but yourself and your ego, and that is a FACT!

[FirNaTine 370]

Fair enough, But I know a number of mayors who will gladly reduce their depts. close companies, lay off, not do call back, ect. because the next community will shoulder the burdon, no matter how much "I" cut mine.

Barry 100% correct, but let's not forget those Career/Combo Depts. that backfill with O.T. to replace those that went m/a to your Dept. or other Career Depts. that are making these cuts. Once again where's the "Brotherhood" and Union Solidarity? Not!!!