60 Control's Policy on No Responses

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) Each volunteer FD manning has it's ups and downs in cycles. Automatic Mutual aid helps to smooth out the bumps when one Fd is having a "bump in the road time" but is not intended to be permanent. Temporary fixes may last years as it takes that long to train and re-build the forces.

2) However, I know two things I can speak of as a volunteer. The first paid person walks through the door, is my last day volunteering at that FD and many of my comrades have said the same thing. So we won't hire period.

3) The second is my FD runs on a little more than $600k. That wouldn't pay for 4 paid positions with all of the extras that come with paying someone and a union. And my districts tax ratables could not cover a large increase without forcng people to reconsider living in my town.

4) By consolidating you lose your identiy, and identity creates pride. Pride is your paycheck in the volunteer service.

5) I don't see a problem with having 5 pieces of apparatus in my little volunteer FD plus 3chiefs cars

6) No way can you go career without rapidly transitioning to mostly or totally career.

7) Not worth it to volunteer once paid are brought on, as it changes most everything.

8) And it usually is the paid chief/paid members looks down at volunteers as not worthy.

9) consolidating several FDs can be done easier with automatic MA. Rather than combine and create a faceless mega FD, you work at smaller chunks and levels to fix problems, such as you send one piece of apparatus, say and engine with 2 guys and I will send an engine with 2 guys and we have one engine company manning. And so on and so forth filling out the entire assignment.

10) Many lightly manned career FD sdo it that way. is it the best, no absolutely not.

11) I also notice many paid commenters on here already don't like the county. they (commenters) want a larger FD but want control and not give it to the county. Don't you usuallly say in the larger combined FDs such as in Maryland arn't they usually county??

12) Sorry, but volunteer FD's work. All fires are put out, no one isn't rescued or attempted to rescued. Maybe at times it isn't pretty, but it works.

1) While for some depts it might be a "bump in the road" almost everyone I know of has had a steady decline since the 1970's or 80's. Many depts had long waiting lists to get on. Now many will take anyone who walks thru the door. Temporary? Perminent? I have seen depts that have been dealing with this for 25 years. At what point is this a temporary problem? If you have had trouble for years getting out, what will change this?

2) How sad. Did you swear an oath when you joined? I did.

3) You are correct and no one is suggesting you hire. What is suggested is we do not need 59 depts with each trying to cover a few square miles

4) You can loss your identity, but most do not. Go to MD and see how some of the volunteer units have more pride than the career units in the county combo depts. They actually have more identity than most small depts in Westchester.

5) BINGO! That is the problem

6) I know a lot of depts that took over 100 years to do it and even more that will never become fully or mostly career.

7) Wow, lots of big combo depts in MD & VA do not know this. Are you saying volunteering is all about the volunteer and not about the community served?

8) Only if they fail to prove they are worthy.

9) automatic MA is not consolidating, its a band-aid. Much of this country and many other countries have already learned that this whole line is completely untrue. In 2010 NIST studied this and found that on the fire ground 2 + 2 does not = 4. if you do not arrive together and work together you are already at a loss and it takes more time for 2 two man teams working as a company than even one 3 man company.

10) you are correct and they should be consolidated.

11) Is it that we do not want the "county" or in the past we have had concerns with how Westchester County operates?

12) Some do and some do not, same is true in some career depts. The problem is more and more depts dont work and no one wants to fix them.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

A couple last thoughts. We all do this because we love it. Love it by doing the job and RESPONDING to alarms. The biggest thing that promotes pride, from what I see, is RESPONDING to alarms.

How many runs did you have? How many runs did they have? We beat you!! We beat last years total!!!! We broke 500 for the first time, 1000 for the first time, 2000 for the first time!!!!!!!

How many workers did you have? That Dept just signed on with a house fire "ACROSS FROM", we are the FAST lets start heading to the firehouse!!!

Haven't we all heard this stuff before? I know the younger guys who are new to this and still have an unmolested, virgin, untarnished view of things hate it when there is no Chauffeur for the rig and they have to stand around. Thinking to themselves while responding to the fire house "I hope we get out for this one" You know the guys who still bust a$$ to get to the firehouse for the regularly scheduled automatic alarm at McDonalds. There are a lot of older guys who still have this fire burning in them and still love responding to the alarms.

With this in mind for the love of me I don't see how guys like this, the future of your fire companies, would not want to be a part of a larger organization. Would you rather do 200 calls a year or 1500 or more? Pride is in the numbers. Hell you like to play with the siren when your in the front seat, instead of 3 minute rides in your 2 square mile area, now you get to play with them longer responding in your new 20 mile district!!!!

The last time I said something about the "older" guys in certain organizations I got hammered with negative responses. However I still think in this case it is the older guys in certain departments who are holding back progress in this direction. Pride is not in t-shirts and jackets, but in numbers and activity. Training and workers. RESPONDING and getting the job done the right way.

Keep em' rolling and stay safe boys.

[pjm1733 22]

I have to give it up to the dispatchers at 60 & 40 Control,I don't see how you do it .... If my Ambulances, Cars, Units, whatever don't answer the first time I call them. I am on them. Make me call you twice or 3 times , its on . My Uncle died as a result lousy ambulance service . My poison pen set into motion revamping of a county wide als/bls system that still has many flaws but is better now then ever .....

[antiquefirelt 994]

The first paid person walks through the door, is my last day volunteering at that FD and many of my comrades have said the same thing. So we won't hire period.

So it appears that for some people it really is about THEM, not the work. I suspect the public doesn't hear that sentiment as it certainly sends the message that putting their needs ahead of your own is not in the cards? Sad. I used to be a volunteer and I'm sure I will be again at some point, and currently have a division under me that is all call personnel. Are there issues? Sure. Are there issue between the career guys, shift to shift, individuals? Sure. But, we make it work. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes not so much, but guys go to calls together, work gets done, call men work to their training level next to their career brothers and no one has come to blows since I've been here (since '95).

[dave0820 50]

So it appears that for some people it really is about THEM, not the work. I suspect the public doesn't hear that sentiment as it certainly sends the message that putting their needs ahead of your own is not in the cards? Sad. I used to be a volunteer and I'm sure I will be again at some point, and currently have a division under me that is all call personnel. Are there issues? Sure. Are there issue between the career guys, shift to shift, individuals? Sure. But, we make it work. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes not so much, but guys go to calls together, work gets done, call men work to their training level next to their career brothers and no one has come to blows since I've been here (since '95).

Very well said brother, and I say "Brother" because in my eyes, all fire fighters are brothers. Unfortunately I'm not active in the fire service now due mostly to an injury, but I was a volunteer in Peekskill. There is a combined department that has been that way for years and it works. Like you said, are there problems?, sure, but that doesn't stop ALL the firefighters from working together to get the job done. When I left Peekskill I worked for a department in NH. that had 10 career firefighter/EMTs and 24 paid on call firefighter. We trained together as a department, worked together and socialized together, it worked just fine. My point is, don't be so closed minded, Career and volunteers can get along and work together, it is possible.