Quinn Slams "Outrageous" 30-Minute Wait For Ambulance After Intern Collapses

[PEMO3 523]

"Quinn was speaking before cameras about the reopening of the controversial E. 91st St. marine transfer station when the 17-year-old girl suddenly dropped to the ground in front of the crowd shortly before noon, witnesses said.

The speaker ran over to the teen, who may have collapsed because of the heat, and began rubbing her arms as a member of Quinn's detail — an NYPD cop who is a trained EMT — began rendering aid to the girl.

"It's going to be okay," Quinn told the girl as another bystander called 911.

They quickly pulled the girl into the shade under a tent as Quinn's security guard grabbed an oxygen tank to help the young woman breathe.

But Quinn finally lost her patience after waiting about 30 minutes for an ambulance to arrive and dialed NYPD Commissioner Raymond Kelly for help.

"We were trying to get through to [FDNY Commissioner] Sal Cassano, and I was unable to get connected," Quinn said."

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2013/07/chris-quinn-slams-outrageous-30-minute-wait-for-ambulance-after-intern-collaps

Interesting, injured woman faints and is conscious and being treat by "trained personnel" (a police officer who is also an EMT). Triaged as it should and held for higher priority calls due to a 25% spike in call volume. But because it is the Speakers intern there is "outrage " because it should have been a "priority 1" call. Maybe they should hold the arrest, MI, stroke or true unconscious for her intern. This is the same Speaker that would have called for a City Council investigation if an MOS family's call was bumped up. I guess it is justified when you call the Police Commissioners private cell and pull strings to get your low priority call bumped up to a high priority "unconscious" even though the woman was conscious. Maybe the speaker and her intern should have followed her own instructions that she has been handing out since the heat wave started - stay hydrated, in the shade when possible and wear light colored, loose fitting clothing.

[Danger 160]

You're not wrong, but 30 minutes is a long time no matter what.

[PEMO3 523]

30 minutes for a Priority 5 call as it was first triaged with no available buses in the system and calls waiting is not long. The heat wave is taxing the system. Quinn states that there should be more units out there to handle the call volume and that the system was not prepared. This is the same woman that voted to cut the FDNY & EMS budget and reduce the unit count. I guess it was just lip service until those cuts hit home. They also could have picked this young lady up and put her in the air conditioned SUV that she had waiting and I am sure running to ensure it was kept cool instead of "dragging" her under a tent to keep her cool.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Welcome to the real world Speaker Quinn.

[JoeyMirra1021 4]

If she weren't running for mayor, she wouldn't be complaining.

[sfrd18 360]

Thirty minutes is a long wait, but unfortunately it's fairly normal in places like Detroit (even on Priority 1 calls).

Edited July 19, 2013 by sfrd18

[SECTMB 612]

Quinn is like all the other politicians. They feel they are special and therefore deserve special treatment not accorded the masses. Yea, why not put her in the SUV and drive her to the hospital yourself? How hard was that to figure out. Did they really need to tie up a paramedic ambulance for a fainting?

Though I have moved South, I still get my NY Post every day. I look forward to reading the forthcoming stories of the decline of NYC post Bloomberg and Kelly.

The inmates will be running the asylum come January and it won't be long before they undo everything accomplished by Giuliani and Bloomberg. Public Safety wise anyway. Between the criminals in Albany and the clueless in NYC, by the time they finish accommodating all their personal and special interests the tax rates necessary to pay for it all will be simply staggering.

[EMT111 149]

Not that I know a ton about the FDNY/NYC ems system other than that its busy, but was there no CFR engine avaliable or assigned? And just my two cents, if someone who you know is going to make a big issue out of a long response time, like a mayoral candidate, calls 911 for ems, send the closest available unit, whether it be an ambulance or a CFR engine or even a truck company. They may not be equipped, but at least they're trained and can provide some level of care till an ambulance can get there and you avoid this whole situation.

[SECTMB 612]

Not that I know a ton about the FDNY/NYC ems system other than that its busy, but was there no CFR engine avaliable or assigned? And just my two cents, if someone who you know is going to make a big issue out of a long response time, like a mayoral candidate, calls 911 for ems, send the closest available unit, whether it be an ambulance or a CFR engine or even a truck company. They may not be equipped, but at least they're trained and can provide some level of care till an ambulance can get there and you avoid this whole situation.

According to the story, once the call was upgraded an engine was dispatched. There are response protocols in place and just because she is the council leader you don't get to jump the line. By the time she finished calling everyone she could and throwing her inflated position around, there was a surplus or resources tied up for a fainting. Not a heart attack, stroke, seizures, etc, a fainting. She is a fine example of what is wrong with the political class today.

[PEMO3 523]

Not that I know a ton about the FDNY/NYC ems system other than that its busy, but was there no CFR engine avaliable or assigned? And just my two cents, if someone who you know is going to make a big issue out of a long response time, like a mayoral candidate, calls 911 for ems, send the closest available unit, whether it be an ambulance or a CFR engine or even a truck company. They may not be equipped, but at least they're trained and can provide some level of care till an ambulance can get there and you avoid this whole situation.

[/qute

Just a few clearifying facts. A post fainting heat related syncope us not a high priority. Also, regardless of Queen Quinn's statement the woman was immediately treated by a NYS EMT who happened to be her NYPD PO driver. The failure here is her failure to take a step back, distance herself from the incident, look at the big picture and find a solution without negatively impacting other NYC resident. The solution a SUV with official plates and ice cold a/c. First rule in heat rrelated injuries is to remove the patient from the hostile environment. The already cooled SUV could have surficed and also doubled as a transport option to an ER.

[grumpyff 1,159]

The NYC Sergeants Benevolent Association representing the NYPD Sergeants is calling out Quinn for using special courtesies that have gotten others arrested, and for wasting money with her ridiculous Inspector General for the NYPD

http://sbanyc.net/documents/quinnAd.pdf

[Goose 188]

Jesus, just imagine if Quinn was running for Westchester County Exec....30 minutes is quick!

[JackEMT 77]

30 minutes is too long to wait. Everyone knew for days the heat wave was coming and was going to be extended. Should there be extra buses on for extreme weather, probably.

But because she is running for office, she has a platform. Most lay people, probably would have waited 10 minutes then used a personal vehicle to transport.

The real question is, how long do low priority jobs wait on an average day and how long were low priority jobs waiting on that day.

They are probably not the only ones waiting 30 minutes for EMS that day and they are probably just as outraged as Quinn is.

Edited July 22, 2013 by JackEMT

[PEMO3 523]

30 minutes is too long to wait. Everyone knew for days the heat wave was coming and was going to be extended. Should there be extra buses on for extreme weather, probably.

But because she is running for office, she has a platform. Most lay people, probably would have waited 10 minutes then used a personal vehicle to transport.

The real question is, how long do low priority jobs wait on an average day and how long were low priority jobs waiting on that day.

They are probably not the only ones waiting 30 minutes for EMS that day and they are probably just as outraged as Quinn is.

Facts are simple. Most of the low priority calls are simply "taxi" runs. Some are actually for late clinic appointments, ER follow ups , etc. These people would complain if the unit arrived in 10 minutes. There are the exceptions that actually do require an ambulance either due to secondary conditions or incorrect information relayed during EMD. In a perfect world extra units could be added during extreme weather but unfortunately this politician is part of the same group that imposed budget restraints on agencies and the media is the same one that will list all of the "high overtime earners" names and address because they increased their base income to add these extra units. The politicians want it both ways. The simple solution is that these politicians should have held their press conference in a less environmentally hostile environment, ensure that their staff was safe and not created the problem in the first place.

[Westchester 49]

When I first saw this on the news I thought it was a political stunt by Quinn to use the aide as a way of showing that as Mayor she could change things and it show her caring side. I agree with eveybody on the care they shold of done on scene. But if you watch the video they applied a ice pack directly on her forehead, ok! How about her armpits or groin area? I did'nt see or hear anything. I felt that this was a stunt. And your all right, as a possible Mayor ( dear god, I hope not) elect, she or her staff know better about dehydration and should of took proper precautions.Quinn is just looking to start a fight, and it just so happens after the complaint about the new 911 system installed. "Wag the Dog"

[ladderthebuilding 2]

Its Election TIME!!!!

[Arbrow06 5]

What if the FDNY had an auxiliary component of EMTs who want to get their experience up to be able to get into a commercial service and have them go on the low priority calls while the medics, rescue medic and haz techs go on the hi priority calls. The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

[PEMO3 523]

What if the FDNY had an auxiliary component of EMTs who want to get their experience up to be able to get into a commercial service and have them go on the low priority calls while the medics, rescue medic and haz techs go on the hi priority calls. The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

To answer you question- Alot is wrong with this idea. FDNY EMS has a standard.of care. You can not water it down with EMT's that want experience but not the training. Second a low priority call can escalate to a "high priority " call easily leaving these inexperienced EMTs with their hands full and the patient short changed. Additionally how would you feel if your boss told you they were replacing your O/T slot with an unpaid, less experienced EMT but he will wear the same uniform as you. Lastly is accountability let alone FDNY EMS is a closed civil service union shop. You don't fix a problem with a leaky bandaid. But let's not overlook the fact that the only problem here was a politician in an election year.

[Arbrow06 5]

I am just applying the fact that many of the people on this forum and EMTs who started from the poop end of the stick to become the amazing knowledgeable EMS providers they are today. All EMTs right out of school should be able to handle any call. I am not saying execute it perfectly but they should be able to stabilize and transport and work with their partner to make sure there is not underlying issues.

If this is a issue of a system that can't handle the call volume why is the debate of overtime coming up. I guess lining people pockets are more important than freeing up a system to make sure people having a heart attack aren't waiting 40 minutes for a ambulance or a ambulance crew is sleeping off somewhere and had to get called multiple times before a response.

I am not saying to lower the quality. I am saying take the ready and eager volunteer EMTs. Train them to you standard because they already spent 17 weeks learning how to save lifes and at least 36 hours on the road. I don't see how your concerns make this a bad idea because the majority of EMTs know their stuff we aren't looking for ER docs on the road just people who will volunteer their time to alleviate the system.

The system is broken and this will save money and fix. All they have to do is make all those buses that they replaced road worthy again. Then sit back and (as along as the 911 center doesn't screw up) watch those response times drop like no bodies business.

Am I saying anything wrong PEMO3

[antiquefirelt 994]

What if the FDNY had an auxiliary component of EMTs who want to get their experience up to be able to get into a commercial service and have them go on the low priority calls while the medics, rescue medic and haz techs go on the hi priority calls. The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

This would just be used as another cost savings tool to cut down the number of staffed units.

[Arbrow06 5]

See thats another systematic problem. I am not saying replace I am saying add. I understand that these jobs need to be kept but I think that by bringing back the ambulances and popping a qualified EMT crew in it will alleviate the strains on the 911 system. But the key is not to take advantage of this opportunity to start reducing the paid staff but instead supplement it with unpaid.

In reality it may not work but the reason it won't work are entirely because of the who gets what not a focus on patient care. That right there is the problem in its entirety.

[PEMO3 523]

I am just applying the fact that many of the people on this forum and EMTs who started from the poop end of the stick to become the amazing knowledgeable EMS providers they are today. All EMTs right out of school should be able to handle any call. I am not saying execute it perfectly but they should be able to stabilize and transport and work with their partner to make sure there is not underlying issues.

If this is a issue of a system that can't handle the call volume why is the debate of overtime coming up. I guess lining people pockets are more important than freeing up a system to make sure people having a heart attack aren't waiting 40 minutes for a ambulance or a ambulance crew is sleeping off somewhere and had to get called multiple times before a response.

I am not saying to lower the quality. I am saying take the ready and eager volunteer EMTs. Train them to you standard because they already spent 17 weeks learning how to save lifes and at least 36 hours on the road. I don't see how your concerns make this a bad idea because the majority of EMTs know their stuff we aren't looking for ER docs on the road just people who will volunteer their time to alleviate the system.

The system is broken and this will save money and fix. All they have to do is make all those buses that they replaced road worthy again. Then sit back and (as along as the 911 center doesn't screw up) watch those response times drop like no bodies business.

Am I saying anything wrong PEMO3

There is a lot wrong with what you said. First lets make it clear that I don't want this to go down the paid vs volly road.

You are correct. EMTs fresh out of school spent 17 weeks training, but they did not spend 9 weeks, 40 hours per week training. Big difference. Second, FDNY EMS EMTs go through an extensive process before they ever step out on the street including a complete refresher regardless of when you got your card to ensure quality control. You are correct we are not looking for ER docs. Nothing against ER docs but most can not perform in the streets and conditions FDNY EMS works in.

You stated in your first post "The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid." Now you state "Train them to you standard because they already spent 17 weeks learning how to save lifes and at least 36 hours on the road." Which is it shorter, corners cut training or the full academy you can't have it both ways.

You have a brass pair calling it about "lining pockets" and stating "ambulance crews are sleeping off somewhere and had to get called multiple times before a response". If you want to get experience there are plenty of volunteer corps in NYC that will let you "get your feet wet". But to put it on the backs of the public by stating to solution is to bring in volunteers with less training standards is short sighted. Think about it, if you have the choice between a fully trained FDNY EMS crew or a wet behind the ears crew that is volunteering for experience, who would you want, honestly. If you choose the later then you are not honest.

The solution is public education about what is a 911 EMS call and letting the ER docs go back to signing the back of the call reports when it is not medically necessary so that Medicare & insurance pass the bill to the patients. Once they realize that the taxi with lights and sirens is about $400 more than the livery they will think twice about calling. It helped in the 90's.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What if the FDNY had an auxiliary component of EMTs who want to get their experience up to be able to get into a commercial service and have them go on the low priority calls while the medics, rescue medic and haz techs go on the hi priority calls. The only difference would be in the training because you wont go through the FDNY*EMS academy but a shorter modified training program but you'll wear the same uniform and you will not get paid.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

See thats another systematic problem. I am not saying replace I am saying add. I understand that these jobs need to be kept but I think that by bringing back the ambulances and popping a qualified EMT crew in it will alleviate the strains on the 911 system. But the key is not to take advantage of this opportunity to start reducing the paid staff but instead supplement it with unpaid.

In reality it may not work but the reason it won't work are entirely because of the who gets what not a focus on patient care. That right there is the problem in its entirety.

1) There are plenty of VAC's right here in Westchester that are dying for volunteers.

2) While you say "add", if this were to work, Quin and other politicians will cut the jobs, becuase you are saving them $$$ by volunteering. Since they already determined that they believe in the cuts they have already made. This will net you no additional units and when the volunteers get tired of playing 2nd string, you will actually have a loss.

[Arbrow06 5]

But in all honesty wouldn't you say that the zoo FDNY EMS is over trained because I can say that the only difference between nyc and anywhere else is volume and even everyone's emergency is heard and I rather an ambulance there that takes them tithe hospital for a fever than some kid breaking into a seizure in the back of a cab. Don't downplay people's emergencies because that cut in their finger could've been from a rusty nail and they can't afford a taxi to hospital it goes untreated and they get really sick.

If you really care about the people I am happy that I show up and check on someone with the most minor thing is on one hand it's another evaluation for me to do and being that EMTs can't diagnosis there can be endless things wrong with them.

I guarantee in systems like the FDNY the little guy gets over looked especially EDPs but everyone deserves to get checked out regardless of how subjective the injury bring that we should be objective parties. I fully support a quality component and I promise you I know it will work out. Because once it's done people will just deal with it and the public won't know the difference they will just be glad that someone came to their rescue.

[PEMO3 523]

..... I fully support a quality component and I promise you I know it will work out. Because once it's done people will just deal with it and the public won't know the difference they will just be glad that someone came to their rescue.

First calling FDNY a zoo is derogatory and unprofessional. Second, listening to a scanner does not make you an authority on the subject. Yes the cut finger could be from a rusty nail but lack of cab fare does not make it a 911 EMS call. If you believe it does then you should seek out a refresher course fast. It is this thinking that is overtaxing a system. You would be surprise how many of the I don't have cab fare public take an ambulance to the ER for a clinic appointment and leave the ER as soon as they are handed over and put in the waiting room and go upstairs for their appointment.

It is obvious that we disagree and that is fine. You may want to check if Quinn needs a running mate.

Edited July 22, 2013 by PEMO3
misspelled word

[Arbrow06 5]

the zoo was a typo I apologize about that I was typing on my phone. and I also am not a buff in which I just listen to scanners. I have done a bit of EMS research and I see things from lots of different angles.

In a medical emergency insurance pays for the ambulance is some cases and in some agencies they work with you work with the people to make payments if they don't have the money.

My biggest confusion is why does FDNY*EMS transport people who are going to clinic appointments. yes I say you must be objective but if that clinic appt taxi is the true problem, this is a direct question because you know the operational procedure more than me, why isn't there a system in place to screen this kind of thing and honestly how many of calls were that?

[PEMO3 523]

To answer your question. They don't transport the clinic appointment. The people know how to work the system. They call for a "emergency" e.g. stomach pain, nausea x 2 days, asthma, etc. They know what gets a waiting room seat and what gets inside. They get put in the waiting room, leave and go upstairs to their clinic appointment. They also know if they have public insurance (medicaid) they get a bus token or cab fare home from the social worker. Just because insurance states it pays for an ambulance does not make that ambulance ride medically necessary. I can't tell you how many times I got stuck with these "taxi rides" only to hear a true emergency like a cardiac arrest or a pedestrian struck drop and the closest unit was coming from a distance and it was our area. Just because books or studies say it is the solution does not mean it is. The people in the trenches will give you the solution before some study by a focus group. I hope that helps to give you a clearer picture of the problem-not a lack of resources but an abuse of the system.

[Arbrow06 5]

The only issue is you really cannot control people at all and I know from experience that if you keep saying to save the ambulance for real emergencies you will have so many cases go under the cracks specifically things without any presenting symptoms but the person just doesn't feel right and will brush it off till their next appt. Unless there is something we can do on the operational or personnel there won't be a solution if we leave in the public hands.

[Dinosaur 844]

I am just applying the fact that many of the people on this forum and EMTs who started from the poop end of the stick to become the amazing knowledgeable EMS providers they are today. All EMTs right out of school should be able to handle any call. I am not saying execute it perfectly but they should be able to stabilize and transport and work with their partner to make sure there is not underlying issues.

If this is a issue of a system that can't handle the call volume why is the debate of overtime coming up. I guess lining people pockets are more important than freeing up a system to make sure people having a heart attack aren't waiting 40 minutes for a ambulance or a ambulance crew is sleeping off somewhere and had to get called multiple times before a response.

I am not saying to lower the quality. I am saying take the ready and eager volunteer EMTs. Train them to you standard because they already spent 17 weeks learning how to save lifes and at least 36 hours on the road. I don't see how your concerns make this a bad idea because the majority of EMTs know their stuff we aren't looking for ER docs on the road just people who will volunteer their time to alleviate the system.

The system is broken and this will save money and fix. All they have to do is make all those buses that they replaced road worthy again. Then sit back and (as along as the 911 center doesn't screw up) watch those response times drop like no bodies business.

Am I saying anything wrong PEMO3

You have to ask yourself how you would feel if your job used unpaid, inexperienced and perhaps under-trained personnel (based on your scenario) instead of hiring and training a sufficient number of full-time personnel?

Look at the NYPD Auxiliary - they do not replace a sector car in the precinct so they can just got "high priority" jobs.

Your suggestion is union busting, demoralizing to both those who work for FDNY and those who would do all the scut work, and reduces the standard of care in the city. The taxpayers would also have a legitimate gripe since they may receive someone who's just looking to get experience at their expense.

The point about overtime will become an issue because how long will it be before the City simply says, you work with some new EMT who isn't trained? Saying that all EMT's are the same is like saying all doctors are the same. There are differences in training, expectations, documentation, system operations, and more that surpasses simply the "EMT certificate".

[Bnechis 3,961]

1) But in all honesty wouldn't you say that the FDNY EMS is over trained because I can say that the only difference between nyc and anywhere else is volume

2) Don't downplay people's emergencies because that cut in their finger could've been from a rusty nail and they can't afford a taxi to hospital it goes untreated and they get really sick.

1) They are not overtrained, the rest of the EMT's in NYS are undertrained. Most EMT classes spend less then 3 hours teaching triage,MCI ops and most never teach EMS's role at accidents and special rescue incidents.

2) Not downplaying their "emergencies" but 1st they need to be emergencies. I have responded to a number of "Chest Pains", "Diff Breathers" & "Man Down" within 500 feet of an ER. Sounds real. We get there and during the assessment we find a patient ID from the ER. When questioned they tell us how long they were waiting for a minor complaint (like I forgot to fill the Rx from last nights trip to the ER) and figured it would be faster if they called 911 so we could take them right in.

Or my favorite, General Pain. Can not find anything wrong. transport to ER. Soon as the doors open, Pt bolts and yells, thanks for the ride, my GF lives across the street and I did not have bus fare. This guy pulled it with 2 other crews before the word got out and we started transporting to a different ER. He stopped calling.