Single Training Standard for Firefighter in NYS

[SageVigiles 1,194]

If what 38ff is saying is happening in Ulster County (and I don't doubt him,) that's unacceptable. And if that's going on all over the state, then I think there are some drastic, immediate changes that need to be made.

Why can't a local department with state certified Fire Instructors run their own Firefighter 1 class, and have the state/county (whoever is the authorized certification authority by ProBoard or IFSAC) send proctors in to administer the final practical skills and written exam as an impartial third-party, just like any other place in the world can?

Unless there's a shortage of Instructors or something, there is literally no excuse why we as fire officers should have to tell our members "Sorry, but you can't take the mandatory course required to become certified for interior firefighting because we're only allowed to train 2 responders at a time." No wonder there's such a big problem with recruitment and retention.

AND, if the issue is that there is a shortage of Instructors, why aren't they having classes to certify more???

The issue becomes, how can we have ANY minimum training standard if there's nobody teaching to it?

Edited July 24, 2013 by SageVigiles

[38ff 250]

I'll put it this way. We need a 2.5 hose worth of training dollars to flow so instructors can get paid to teach MORE classes, but we are getting a booster line's worth. The state runs the pump panel......

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Right, but if you as the Fire District can't hire Instructors yourself to teach a class independent of the State/County, then there isn't even away to go around the state funding.

[helicopper 1,050]

Right, but if you as the Fire District can't hire Instructors yourself to teach a class independent of the State/County, then there isn't even away to go around the state funding.

I believe that this IS an option if the county chooses to run additional courses. The departments could work at the county level to accomplish that according to the DHSES OFPC report.

[grumpyff 1,159]

What is to stop a department from approaching a county to sponsor a class using the county resources (if they are available and willing to teach another class) and give priority admission to that department's members. If other departments wanted to piggy back members into the class they could help defray the cost involved and also petition the county to allow this.

[JM15 386]

I believe that this IS an option if the county chooses to run additional courses. The departments could work at the county level to accomplish that according to the DHSES OFPC report.

I have never heard of this but I am now very curious. So lets say my department called our county Coordinator and said "hey we want to have a Firefighter 2 class for our members" they would arrange and pay for a state instructor to come and teach it exclusively for us? Or am I missing something?

[Bnechis 3,961]

If each department has a budget of $100K, which is not a lot and probably captures a reasonable average between larger downstate departments and smaller, underfunded departments, the total cost of fire service in NYS is 183 MILLION dollars. And we still can't get a full response on every initial call. Wow!

If this sentence started without career, it would be a great line. Career FF have statutory minimum training despite all the AHJ and home rule comments made previously. It is definitely a double standard and should be fixed.

And your costs dont take into account the State (OFPC) and county funds towards the total cost of fire service.

If you also consider the cost of fire "protection" you also need to include the cost of construction (build your house of straw vs. brick, sprinklers vs. none) and insurance premiums. since both contribute to fire protection.

The statutory minimum was fought for by the NYSPFFA and was opposed by FASNY. the state seatled it by only including the career depts.

Side bar: Chris I use to be able to split the quotes and add comments after specific lines, as you did in your post. I can no longer do that...how can I?

[Bnechis 3,961]

I have never heard of this but I am now very curious. So lets say my department called our county Coordinator and said "hey we want to have a Firefighter 2 class for our members" they would arrange and pay for a state instructor to come and teach it exclusively for us? Or am I missing something?

Not exactly. The county would need County Fire Instructors (CFI) who are certified by OFPC and the county would pay them. CFI do not need to be full timers (and generally are not). And in theory if the county will not budget for it, the dept could arraing to pay the county for it.

[firecapt32 282]

all firefighter one classes whether given by the State or the County must have OFPC approval no matter who is paying. That is not happening to a local department OFPC will be hard pressed to authorize a "special" FF1 class for any department. Then every department will want a "special" class just for them--can you see the nightmare happening. Even if you hire an outside company to teach FF1 to get the state to approve it is almost impossible--I say almost because you can never say never in this world.

Westchester has I believe 10-13 state fire instructors and state Hours have been increased for the year plus a cadre of County fire Instructors all capable of teaching FF1 and many more courses.

Lets not forget that a FF1 is like 90 hours and most instructors tack on safety and survival so its over 100 hours--that's a lot of commitment. I know one state fire instructor that did a FF! one night a week!!! took 1/2 a year to complete. don't hang me on the hours they are approximate

when I talk about commitment --- firefighter one classes start out with between 20- 25 students and end up with between 15-20 some do not even bring a book do not read the assignments or just cant do the work(physically). Fire instructors teach to the standard of the State--when a student cant make that standard-- they get dropped. their local department can keep them as firefighters (AHJ) but no certificate of completion is given.

again just my thoughts make the standard--keep to the standard we are sworn to protect the citizens of our community. We can no longer " just get by" we need to improve and move forward. The past is nice to look at and reminisce about but lets not make it our future.

[okcomputer 12]

Lets be honest here. No one under the age of 18 should be in a burning structure or on the highway assisting an mva, mva w entrapment etc.

18 is the legal age, lets keep it that way.

Fire 1 and all it's components should be the basic for to be an interior ff in NYS.

Bailout training and bailout gear is also a required and necessary requirement.

Many feel having a CFR with the rise in EMS calls should also be added.

If a department chooses to not adhere to any of the above they are solely responsible, especially if a ff is injured or dies and is also a minor.

NY OFPC should be installing a standard, I don't need cuomo or some politician saying what needs to be required etc.

These discussions are always the same, someone brings up fdny or something similar and it goes off course.

Keep it simple. It's a very simple discussion topic.

[JM15 386]

NY OFPC should be installing a standard, I don't need cuomo or some politician saying what needs to be required etc.

OFPC has no enforcement authority in New York State. The only way I think this could be achieved is through New York State passing a labor law say 800.8 for example that details minimum training in the fire service similar to what we have for the bailout systems and workplace violence laws. Enforcement would be done by PESH (who inspects fire departments in NYS already). The only way for this to happen would be for the fire service to as a whole fight for it. But unfortunately I see a major association in NYS who would fight hard against this.