Booster Reels Aren't Evil

[x635 4,066]

I know that some people will argue that having booster reels will make people lazy when attacking a fire. That's a departmental issue.

Personally, I feel booster reels are a tremendous asset. In fact, in most of the country, they are still popular. They can be used for decon'ing firefighters and equipment after a structure fire, a wash-down,, rinsing the rig off, rehab, mass decon, etc. .

It's easy to deploy, easy to use, and easy to store.

What are the evils of a booster reel, BESIDES those who think it is a suppression line?

[FF1 172]

Booster lines are good for what you mentioned, but other than that, not much else.

even your trash can or rubbish fire doesn't justify the use of a booster line. You still need to put the rig in pump so why not stretch an attack line?

If a can cant knock it down you are better off stretching an 1 and 3/4 line. You are better having more line and water than less.

I have been an member of my fd for almost 6 years and I have never have used or have heard of a booster line being used for much of anything at all.

[FF1 172]

Booster lines are good for what you mentioned, but other than that, not much else.

even your trash can or rubbish fire doesn't justify the use of a booster line. You still need to put the rig in pump so why not stretch an attack line?

If a can cant knock it down you are better off stretching an 1 and 3/4 line. You are better having more line and water than less.

I have been an member of my fd for almost 6 years and I have never have used or have heard of a booster line being used for much of anything at all.

knock it down with a water can that is

[SageVigiles 1,194]

With bumper trash lines being spec'ed on so many apparatus nowadays, why spec a booster line for the roof when you can put a deck gun, light tower or casket compartment up top?

[RES24CUE 168]

I find booster reels useful for small brush fires and exterior trash can fires just to save the time of re-packing the hose. In the department that I ran with, engines did not have bumper lines due to the steep grade of a number of hills in town that eliminate the possibility of having an extended bumper. Generally, the booster line was put into use on any exterior fire where the saftety of civilians and firefighters alike would not be compromised if we all just sat there and let the fire burn itself out. Just makes it look good and saves a little time to hit it with the booster line.

[IzzyEng4 427]

A 3/4" or 1" booster line is still a viable hose line on a pumper. The problem is it is not used properly now a days. Back in the day yes it was utlizied as an initial attack line, a hold over from the days of using chemical tanks for small fires for a quick knockdown. As years progressed, booster lines had either a smooth bore, Navy (SG-60) or Coast guard (CG-15) attached to them, then later adjustibles and even FMC hiogh-pressure nozzles (if you had a three-stage pump on your rig). As fire loads became greater, the booster line isn't usefull as an main fire attack line because you can't get the proper GPM to defeat the BTUs genreated at strucutre / room-and-content fires.

A booster line, though you don't get a lot of gpm out of it due to the size of the hose, it is still good for a lot of applications if used properly;

1 - Nussiance fires

2 - Brush fires

3 - Small trash can fires

4 - Chimney Fires (attach that good old under used chimney nozzle to it and send it down the pipe)

5 - Use as a secondary line for a car / truck / container fire by attaching a SG or CG nozzle using either a piercing attachment or a "pinapple wand" to get into those hard to reach areas (before a hood or an opening can be created). Again, doesn't take the place of the main attack lines, it an added resource.

6 - For drafting operations, the return recycle line to keep water moving back into a porta-tank so you don't waste a discharge and don't loose your prime

7 - DECON and REHAB for your firefighters, nothing like having a small line to cool you off on a hot day or to wash down your dirty gear. Again, freeing up another larger line or main discharge.

8 - small propane tank leakes - less than 20 lbs tanks (adjust the nozzle to a good fog patter and disipate that LPG)

9 - Use as an invesitgation line - The FM is trying to find the cause of a fire, got a few very small hot-spots or needs to wash down a small are without having the great pressure from a 1 3/4" line, the booster is your line. GRANTED it should not be the only line present, you should still have a main attack line present just in case! You have the poewer of both.

Those are just a few as there are many more uses still.

I rather pull a booster line for a nussince fire rather than having to pull 50 feet of pre-connect in a crossy lay or front bumper line for a little fire at 3 am.

Also too, a lot of fire comapnies are utilizing the "hose reel" concept with 1 3/4" lines as well. The Mortlake Fire Comapny in Brooklyn, CT has a pumper with two pre-charged attack lines on reels. Granted this is a differnet concept and can be disccused in a different thread, hose reels are still viable.

Mortlake FC's website: http://mortlakefire.com/mainsite/index.htm

Booster lines are still viable, its just departments get it in their head that it is old technology and no room for it any more. I say hogwash! You may not be able to use it as a main attack line for larger fires, but in the end, its a quick line thaty should be utilized if you have it. Just like the debate of fog nozzels vs. smooth bores, the booster line has it place in the fire service.

Edited June 26, 2013 by IzzyEng4

[JetPhoto 626]

My department utilizes dry reels with 1 3/4 on it. It's great for BS fires with limited manpower

[wraftery 1,275]

I find it hard to believe the booster vs.1 3/4 argument is still alive and well. Try a timed race between a booster line and a 1 3/......AAAH, never mind. If you haven't figured it out by now, I probably can't convince you.

[x635 4,066]

So, why is it easier to deploy a trash line to wash down gear and equipment on a scene, do mass decon or rehab, wash down a sidewalk or street, etc and then have to repack it instead of just reeling it back up, taking one person a few seconds? I'm not talking as a fire suppression line.

[SECTMB 612]

For all the reasons IzzyEng4 mentions and more, I always found a hard booster line a convenience as much as an asset. Then I left for a few years and when I came back the new engine no longer had a hard booster reel, it had a reel with 600 feet of forestry hose that snags on every twig it meets. I miss the hard booster reel.

[markmets415 524]

We have two booster reels on out BRAT, of course this is a brush truck not a pumper, one reel is a dead lay for 1000' of forestry hose which can be pulled off and hooked into one of the 1 1/2" discharges at pump (the hose is not charged on the reel as it is capped and yes it was designed that way for the storage of the hose), the other is reel with 200' of hard line, all discharges on the BRAT are class A foam capable. The BRAT also carries 3 - hose bags containing 300' each of 1" forestry hose and 400' of 1 3/4 and 300' of 2 1/2", at a fire in Lakeville CT. last fall every piece of hose was used in the woods by various departments. We have had great success with the reels, again yes this is a different type of vehicle and mostly used for grass/brush type fires but repacking over 1000' of forestry hose if not on a reel would not be fun. The line has been used in ways IZZY mentioned above as well.

Our new engine being constructed has a reel spec'd under the cab steps that will hold 200' of hard 1" line that will be CAFS capable for those road side grass fires, smaller nusinance fires, the new engine has "pump and roll" capabilities. We have used foam for years and will continue to do so.

[helicopper 1,050]

Is anyone really using a booster line for mass decon? Every set-up I've ever seen called for a whole lot more water than that. Generally BIG water.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

So, why is it easier to deploy a trash line to wash down gear and equipment on a scene, do mass decon or rehab, wash down a sidewalk or street, etc and then have to repack it instead of just reeling it back up, taking one person a few seconds? I'm not talking as a fire suppression line.

I don't think its necessarily easier, just a better use of the limited space on most apparatus. There's nothing else I'm going to mount to the front bumper but a trash line or a hydraulic reel. There's a litany of things I can mount on the roof (or in a compartment) instead of a booster reel.

[JetPhoto 626]

repacking over 1000' of forestry hose if not on a reel would not be fun.

That has got to be one tired finger after it's all on.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I see the booster reel as a convenience line, and as such the costs outweigh the benefits. Washdowns, trash cans, grass fires and like like can easily be handled with 1" single jacket hose that stores in a fraction the space and can be fitted nearly anywhere on a new truck, often in the bumper. A booster line requires space (some of the US's the most expensive real estate per square foot), piping and of course money. For what? Convenience? Not in this day, at least not here.

Now, banning their use? Silliness from those who refuse to maintain any kind of tactical discipline. If your guys are pulling a red-line into a commercial structure or any for that matter, it's not the equipment's fault, just like guns, they're inanimate and merely waiting for a human to misuse them.

[FireMedic049 597]

I find the booster reel to be a very useful tool. It's certainly not adequate for a significant volume of fire, but it's a great option for other situations.

In addition to and in support of the things Izzy listed as uses, ours has been used for the following:

• Cleaning of tools, equipment, hose and personnel on the scene.
• Final extinguishment of a smoldering engine compartment fire.
• Hitting some hot spots found during the investigation phase.
• Extinguishing nuisance fires.
• As a protection line for the engine for a short period of time while pumping a fire.
• We've used it in several situations where we previously would've used a can. A lot easier to put a little water back in the tank back at the station than servicing the can.
• It's a great option when you think you might need more than one can to fully extinguish a small fire.
• It's a lot quicker to clean up and put away than a trashline.
• We get called upon to "wash down" some public areas at times. Using regular handlines, we'd often have to refill at least once to complete the job. Just the other week my engine washed down the stage area of an outdoor "bandshell" style venue with less than 200 gallons of water.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Is anyone really using a booster line for mass decon? Every set-up I've ever seen called for a whole lot more water than that. Generally BIG water.

No.

For gross decon it is not used as it does not flow enough

for technical decon & mass decon it has the wrong size couplings to match the equipment

[Bnechis 3,961]

• Final extinguishment of a smoldering engine compartment fire.
• Hitting some hot spots found during the investigation phase.
• As a protection line for the engine for a short period of time while pumping a fire.
• We've used it in several situations where we previously would've used a can. A lot easier to put a little water back in the tank back at the station than servicing the can.
• We get called upon to "wash down" some public areas at times. Using regular handlines, we'd often have to refill at least once to complete the job. Just the other week my engine washed down the stage area of an outdoor "bandshell" style venue with less than 200 gallons of water.

• "Final extinguishment of a smoldering engine compartment fire."

So you pack up the 1 3/4" line that you used to get to that point and then pull the booster to finish the job?

• "Hitting some hot spots found during the investigation phase."

Same as above

• "As a protection line for the engine for a short period of time while pumping a fire."

If you need to protect your $500,000+ engine because you parked it too close, you need a real line

• "We've used it in several situations where we previously would've used a can. A lot easier to put a little water back in the tank back at the station than servicing the can."

Saves a whole minute

• "We get called upon to "wash down" some public areas at times. Using regular handlines, we'd often have to refill at least once to complete the job. Just the other week my engine washed down the stage area of an outdoor "bandshell" style venue with less than 200 gallons of water."

How is it that you use an extra 300 gallons with the regular line? If you put out more water you complete the washdown in less time and the amount should be the same.

[Bnechis 3,961]

A booster line, though you don't get a lot of gpm out of it due to the size of the hose, it is still good for a lot of applications if used properly;

5 - Use as a secondary line for a car / truck / container fire by attaching a SG or CG nozzle using either a piercing attachment or a "pinapple wand" to get into those hard to reach areas (before a hood or an opening can be created). Again, doesn't take the place of the main attack lines, it an added resource.

7 - DECON and REHAB for your firefighters, nothing like having a small line to cool you off on a hot day or to wash down your dirty gear. Again, freeing up another larger line or main discharge.

8 - small propane tank leakes - less than 20 lbs tanks (adjust the nozzle to a good fog patter and disipate that LPG)

9 - Use as an invesitgation line - The FM is trying to find the cause of a fire, got a few very small hot-spots or needs to wash down a small are without having the great pressure from a 1 3/4" line, the booster is your line. GRANTED it should not be the only line present, you should still have a main attack line present just in case! You have the poewer of both.

Much of what you wrote is valid, but some of these items are not:

"5 - Use as a secondary line for a car / truck / container fire by attaching a SG or CG nozzle using either a piercing attachment or a "pinapple wand" to get into those hard to reach areas (before a hood or an opening can be created). Again, doesn't take the place of the main attack lines, it an added resource."

While nice to have the special nozzle, why not have that 2nd line with enough power to back up the primary if something goes wrong (like the gas tank drops)

"7 - DECON and REHAB for your firefighters, nothing like having a small line to cool you off on a hot day or to wash down your dirty gear. Again, freeing up another larger line or main discharge."

Not for decon and "freeing up a line or discharge" I have never seen an engine run out of discharges, most today have 7-9 (4-6 main ones)

"8 - small propane tank leakes - less than 20 lbs tanks (adjust the nozzle to a good fog patter and disipate that LPG)"

Maybe you should calculate the potential btu output from oneof these before you go in with way too small of a flow

"9 - Use as an invesitgation line - The FM is trying to find the cause of a fire, got a few very small hot-spots or needs to wash down a small are without having the great pressure from a 1 3/4" line, the booster is your line. GRANTED it should not be the only line present, you should still have a main attack line present just in case! You have the poewer of both."

If the pressure is too much in the 1 3/4" line - Gate down. because of the reduced FL you can use less pressure (thus less volume) and get the jop done. If the booster is being justified for conviniance most of the time, how come here you are adding an extra line to do the job? thats more work not less.

Even when we had boosters, we did not do this, because we already had a line in the building. why clean and pack 2 lines.

[markmets415 524]

I see the booster reel as a convenience line, and as such the costs outweigh the benefits. Washdowns, trash cans, grass fires and like like can easily be handled with 1" single jacket hose that stores in a fraction the space and can be fitted nearly anywhere on a new truck, often in the bumper. A booster line requires space (some of the US's the most expensive real estate per square foot), piping and of course money. For what? Convenience? Not in this day, at least not here.

Storage is always a consideration when specs are being drawn up and the configuration of such space is also dictated by what type of vehicle you are building that best suits your districts needs, back to our new Engine being built, it has a front mount pump, rather than placing a trash line within the front bumper we chose to use that area to hold the various different adaptors that may be needed at the pump rather than having to go to a compartment in the body to locate one and used the "dead space" under the cab steps to place the reel with the 200' of hard line on it and also added a 3rd area above our speed lays that wasn't originally spec'd but was again "dead space" that we found during the build, this area will hold a poly tray with a dead lay of 1" forestry hose.

Costs should always been a huge consideration on adding things, Look at the rigs that get posted here or you see at a show, hell don't forget to add the Q2 (yes we have one but not by my choice) or the three rotating thing that spins around on the front of the Engine or $1000's of dollars in gold leaf, we can go on and on about the costs of some the "items" that are added to a fire apparatus that may or may not be needed but I balk at the argument that the cost of such a reel like the one we have is a waste of space or money, we planned and used every possible space that we could use to hold equipment on our new engine as our fire district is taking two engines out of service when the new one arrives.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Much of what you wrote is valid, but some of these items are not:

"5 - Use as a secondary line for a car / truck / container fire by attaching a SG or CG nozzle using either a piercing attachment or a "pinapple wand" to get into those hard to reach areas (before a hood or an opening can be created). Again, doesn't take the place of the main attack lines, it an added resource."

While nice to have the special nozzle, why not have that 2nd line with enough power to back up the primary if something goes wrong (like the gas tank drops)

"7 - DECON and REHAB for your firefighters, nothing like having a small line to cool you off on a hot day or to wash down your dirty gear. Again, freeing up another larger line or main discharge."

Not for decon and "freeing up a line or discharge" I have never seen an engine run out of discharges, most today have 7-9 (4-6 main ones)

"8 - small propane tank leakes - less than 20 lbs tanks (adjust the nozzle to a good fog patter and disipate that LPG)"

Maybe you should calculate the potential btu output from oneof these before you go in with way too small of a flow

"9 - Use as an invesitgation line - The FM is trying to find the cause of a fire, got a few very small hot-spots or needs to wash down a small are without having the great pressure from a 1 3/4" line, the booster is your line. GRANTED it should not be the only line present, you should still have a main attack line present just in case! You have the poewer of both."

If the pressure is too much in the 1 3/4" line - Gate down. because of the reduced FL you can use less pressure (thus less volume) and get the jop done. If the booster is being justified for conviniance most of the time, how come here you are adding an extra line to do the job? thats more work not less.

Even when we had boosters, we did not do this, because we already had a line in the building. why clean and pack 2 lines.

Barry, I do respect you opinion and yes these can be argued in several different ways. Obviously your points and questiosn are correct from a different view point. My point is this with my suggestions as you pointed out are options. Its another oprion in the "tool bag of tricks". As you well know, you have to decide what is best for the situation. It seems the way I worded somethings are not clear with my intentions.

Would I use a booster for mass decon during a HazMat situation? Probably not, however depening on the situation where you may need to deploy a quick line to get into place for rinse down purposes if there are no proper decon "garden hoses" are in place, then I would pull the booster to fill the void until you can get the proper equipment in place. On a fireground, I would most definately utilize the line to rinse down and clean up. (Any yes, I have seen a pumper run out of usuable discharges a few times - again depends on the year, make, model and how the truck is set up.)

My car fire scenerio, again another option with using an attachment to a SG-60 or CG-15 to aid in getting into those "hard to reach" areas. If you have a 1 3/4" with the same attachments set up on that line, well then its a no brainer, you go with the bigger line for a secondary. Again depends on the scenerio when you do your size up, pulling a booster with attachment may not be the best scenerio for a secondary line.

The small propane tank, I should have been more clear. Granted you should not use it on a continue operation, a larger line should be put into place for continual operations like you described. For an intial attack to get some sort of dispiation going, it can be done but a larger line should be set in place definately. Its a stop gap measure for a short time.

And for the investigation line, we have done it for years where I originally came from, the pumpers at work do not have booster lines on them. We still would have a 1 3/4" attack line (or two depending on the extent) in place but at the same time. You can back down any line all you want but with the smaller line you do have a lot more control and manuverablity to rinse down items in the area without fighting a larger line.

As for cleaning the booster line, well its not that hard doing it. The easiest way is to wrap a wet towel loosely around the hose and let it slide through your hand as its being rolled up on the reel getting the heavier dirt off. Obviously you will have to spend more time like any other hose cleaning operations to get all of it off.

And if anyone is complaining about cleaning and packing hose regardles show many lines are out, well you shouldn't be a firefighter, its your job. The booster line or any reel line is the quickest one to put away.

But also think of this about a booster line compared to the old PW can. 2 1/2" gallons of water from a PW can help keep a room and content fire in check when properly utilized, can't the same be applied in certain situations for a booster line? Think about it.

Edited June 27, 2013 by IzzyEng4

[SmokeyJoe 161]

Lets get this strait: we are actually discussing booster lines. Really? Cmon people, when will you learn?

[wraftery 1,275]

Here's some logic that is similar to the pro-booster reel logic that I've been seeing in this thread.

We should also buy a few steamers and horse teams. You never know if there will be another gasoline shortage.

Of course we would have to add a chemical engine to our arsenal because it takes a while to build up a head of steam.

[dc2t 80]

Don't forget the leather buckets. Also we could use the carbon tet grenades as a addtional tool. But the use of a booster line has been a fond memory, many small career depts used high pressure booster to allow the operator to multi task, put truck on pump, advance line and attempt to put out the fire. Other than brush units there is no need for same.

[SmokeyJoe 161]

^{Geez, were full of good ideas. Why don't we get the department to buy us beer, go to parades, and get drunk in uniform. Hey wait a minute: am I in the wrong thread (or maybe advocating booster reels is just as dumb an idea)}

[Remember585 815]

^{Geez, were full of good ideas. Why don't we get the department to buy us beer, go to parades, and get drunk in uniform. Hey wait a minute: am I in the wrong thread (or maybe advocating booster reels is just as dumb an idea)}

I think 9 out of 10 people here wear their uniform more than they'll ever need a booster line.

With that said, we only have one Engine with a booster on it still, as it was built in 1993. I'm fairly confident it's replacement won't have one. As others said, if you can't handle it with the can, stretch a line. If nothing else, it's good practice for the guys to flank out a line and use it - and it's good to take it out of it's bed and get the kinks out of it.

Another thing I don't like is that it usually only flows 30 GPM. Give me a 1 3/4" flowing 150 GPM and I'm done five times faster.

[SteveOFD 176]

I've always thought that unless it is a Brush Rig, Booster Reels are not worth the investment. To me repacking a fifty foot length of 1 3/4" is easier than having to simultaneously push the rewind button and guide the hose at the same time. The 1 3/4" can easily be repacked with one FF, where as stated above the Reel is at least a two person job.

The members of the first Apparatus Committee I was on (as Chairman) insisted that the new apparatus had to have at least 200' of Booster Line. When I showed them that with a 3/4" line (which the previous rig had) at 200' (with a calculator similar to this one http://frictionlosscalculator.com/ ) you would get slightly more GPM than a fifty foot Garden Hose. The Committee settled for 150" of 1" Booster Line.

[dwcfireman 656]

We have a booster line on each truck at the airport (HPN). They work great for small fires, wash downs (i.e. washing the blue juice off the ramp and into the sewer), and all the random, incidental things we respond to. Never would the booster line be operationally acceptable at a major incident, but it's agreat resource for the little things where mapower is limited.

[helicopper 1,050]

Would I use a booster for mass decon during a HazMat situation? Probably not, however depening on the situation where you may need to deploy a quick line to get into place for rinse down purposes if there are no proper decon "garden hoses" are in place, then I would pull the booster to fill the void until you can get the proper equipment in place. On a fireground, I would most definately utilize the line to rinse down and clean up. (Any yes, I have seen a pumper run out of usuable discharges a few times - again depends on the year, make, model and how the truck is set up.)

If you need to deploy quickly for mass decon, how about the deck gun/ladder pipe or initial attack hand-line? Mass decon wouldn't rely on garden hoses; you need copious/voluminous amounts of water for lots of people and you can't possibly get that from a booster line.

All the training I've ever been through was large bore, large volume, low pressure water to cover a large area for many people as quickly as possible. I just can't see a booster line being able to accomplish that effectively.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I find that the booster reel argument is pushed mainly by the older generation. The same guys who still think pull up boots are just as effective as bunker gear. (Disclaimer: I'm an old guy, and have deviant thoughts like this from time to time, but I'm also a realist in embracing the future of the fire service and supporting the new younger line officers as they come up the line.)

That said....my department bought 2 new Engines in 2010 and 2 in 2011. NONE came with a booster reels. First time in our history that the Engines did not come with them. During the planning and layout for the Engines the argument came up. The older guys said most of the reasons people came up with having them as some did in this thread. But at the end of the day we realized that bumper mounted 1 3/4 trash lines can accomplish all the things that booster hose can and better. Plus the mistake of ever using the "red" line for anything more then washing off tools could never be made. (think it wont happen, your not living in the real world)

Yeah it may be easier to push a button then "pack" hose, but that's what the "new" guys are for heheheh.