Westchester Fire & EMS Radio: It Hasn't Changed!

[x635 4,066]

After almost 5 years in Austin, TX, and having a couple years experience on both ends of 60 Control and agencies in Texas, I'm pretty much familiar with the way things I thought "were". I never really listened online, but I've been monitoring the past couple of days.

So I'm back monitoring, and it is basically EXACTLY the same then when I left. Everyone's still on 46.26, stepping all over each other. 60 Control will dispatch, and then the agency will dispatch. There are repeaters and cross band systems that add to the confusion.

What the heck is the new radio system for? I expected one dispatch, and a channel assignment system. Is it just for fireground, and do responders have a pre-assigned channel?

Also, what the heck happened to size up? A Chief or first due will arrive on scene....and nothing.

To top it off, they work in an obsolete, cramped, and unhealthy facilty with an every increasing workload and even more equipment being crammed in. They make a ridiculously low salary Dispatchers are just as important as Police Officers. However, most cops in Westchester make $90,000+ while Dispatchers make $40,000, and they have to hustle for that. Where's the parity? The administration fights and fights, but until something happens, the County won't care. What will it take to have bring 60 Control to where it needs to be?

And let me be clear, the staff at 60 Control is awesome! What is expected of them is above and beyond, and completly "unique".

Sorry, I guess I expected more. But that is the politics and home rule still costing lives in this county.

[everybodygoes 331]

While dispatchers do an excellent job in most cases, I do not see the relationship between someone who answers a phone and someone who gets stabbed, or punched, or hit by a car, or SHOT! They deserve a living wage that is for sure!

[Remember585 815]

After almost 5 years in Austin, TX, and having a couple years experience on both ends of 60 Control and agencies in Texas, I'm pretty much familiar with the way things I thought "were". I never really listened online, but I've been monitoring the past couple of days.

So I'm back monitoring, and it is basically EXACTLY the same then when I left. Everyone's still on 46.26, stepping all over each other. 60 Control will dispatch, and then the agency will dispatch. There are repeaters and cross band systems that add to the confusion.

What the heck is the new radio system for? I expected one dispatch, and a channel assignment system. Is it just for fireground, and do responders have a pre-assigned channel?

Also, what the heck happened to size up? A Chief or first due will arrive on scene....and nothing.

To top it off, they work in an obsolete, cramped, and unhealthy facilty with an every increasing workload and even more equipment being crammed in. They make a ridiculously low salary Dispatchers are just as important as Police Officers. However, most cops in Westchester make $90,000+ while Dispatchers make $40,000, and they have to hustle for that. Where's the parity? The administration fights and fights, but until something happens, the County won't care. What will it take to have bring 60 Control to where it needs to be?

And let me be clear, the staff at 60 Control is awesome! What is expected of them is above and beyond, and completly "unique".

Sorry, I guess I expected more. But that is the politics and home rule still costing lives in this county.

Seth,

A lot has changed. And, like you pointed out, a lot has not.

Only eight departments still get dispatched on and use 46.26 for their communications - down from a couple dozen. And for the most part, those that are still using 46.26 are using fireground channels for the stuff that doesn't need to be put out on 46.26. As far as 60 dispatching a call and then that department retones it - that only applies to about 11 departments that either get paged by 60 Control first then by their local dispatch, or some departments retone from their base due to coverage issues. Still an improvement than it was.

The Trunk System - each department is given a "primary/home" talkgroup to use, whether they use it every run or during larger incidents is their discretion. For example, we use Fire 10 for all of our command/control, rig/control communications. Along the same lines, every department has an assigned primary/home fire ground channel - and again, it's their discretion whether they use it. Again, using our FD as an example, our designated fire ground is FG 3, but our neighbors use it too so we use FG 5. (Poor planning but we adapted).

When there's Mutual Aid incidents, responding units are directed to the channels being used. For example, units responding to a Mutual Aid fire in Yorktown would be directed to Fire 17 and fireground 7, or other channels being used (Tankers on Ops 1, etc.).

Size-Up... well, that's a sore subject. Yes, the first arriving unit should always give one and along those lines, Progress Reports should be given periodically. Does it happen all the time, no. Why? I can't answer that. There's people afraid to do it, there's people that don't believe in it and let's be honest - there's guys that don't know what to do/say!

Salaries? Facilities? I don't think commenting on this is in my best interest... I need my job.

[Remember585 815]

While dispatchers do an excellent job in most cases, I do not see the relationship between someone who answers a phone and someone who gets stabbed, or punched, or hit by a car, or SHOT! They deserve a living wage that is for sure!

Not every field responder gets stabbed or shot (thank God!) but I see your point. I, for one, don't think communications folks should be equally paid with those in the field, but I do believe we deserve more than we get - as do the field units. No first responder should be paid what someone delivering mail or picking up garbage should be - that's a disgrace. But remember, if you ask many politicians, public safety folks are the devil!

[PEMO3 523]

Remember the difference between us and sanitation is their garbage doesn't talk back. :-)

Edited April 30, 2013 by PEMO3

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I always say emergency service dispatchers should be paid like air traffic controllers. "Hold on now Spin how do you figure?" Well it's just as stressful, maybe more so and just as demanding with little error for someone to have a "bad day" as air traffic contollers.

Air traffic controllers always say.."well we get paid for what MIGHT happen..when the S&^( hits the fan so to speak."

This is true. Moving 1000's of people around the sky each day is no easy task and when something goes wrong they have to perform with no margin of error. And when things do go bad they are almost catastrophic. Thankfully this does not happen very often.

But think about it...almost EVERY time the phone rings at the 911 center or local comm room the S&^( HAS hit the fan for SOMEONE. Maybe not 300 people on a 767, but for someone, some family or some large group (Boston, West Tx can you imagine the phone calls that these centers must have recieved.) somewhere is having the worst day of their lives. They are having their own catastrophic event if you will. Mini catastrophes day in and day out. It never ends.

Dispatchers also work under the stress of a race against a clock to accurately expidite all emergencies day in and day out. No room for error. Air traffic controllers are not racing against a clock. Anyone who has sat on a runway for an extended time knows this!!!

Couple of other things, its a fact that in the 80's when Regan laid off the air traffic controllers many sort jobs and were hired in emergency dispatcher jobs. MOST could not handle it and left the job.

Also a friend of mine who is in the air traffic control Bizz, said its really very hard for a controller to collide 2 planes in the sky despite what everyone may think.

[everybodygoes 331]

I don't think your analogy for the safe travels of an aircraft in most cases traveling faster than 400mph with anywhere from 10 to 500 lives on board compares to a guy inputing information from someone who is at a minimum excited. ATC has numerous layers it is not just landing planes and getting clearance to take off.

Dispatchers need the right attitude. Attitude means demeanor, and capability to collect and disseminate information as rapidly as possible. The people who hire said dispatchers should continually evaluate these members for skill level and competency. But if you think someone answering a phone deserves a 100k you are headed to the land of Apu answering your 911 call.

[x635 4,066]

Without dispatchers, the rest of the response would be useless. They have a tremendous responsiblity to get the information to prevent field responders to prevent them from getting injured, and to make sure that the right resources get to the right places at the right time. They also give instructions to callers like instructions on CPR, when response times in parts of the counties could be over 10 minutes.

A 60 Control Dispatcher made about $40,000 last year. Career firefighters and police officers who "worked the desk" either on a regular or overtime basis made $100,000+. Heck, some public sanitation workers made $70,000 as their base salary. Yet our 911 Dispatchers are the least valuable?

Here's a great article on Dispatchers written by Chief William Goldfeder over 10 years ago, and I like to post every now and again:

http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/news/fullstory/newsid/79849

Remember585, thanks for the info. It just still seems like it could be a very confusing system.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Remember the difference between us and sanitation is their garbage doesn't talk back. :-)

1) Yes but when the contract for sanitation ends in summer and they walk out in July. 3-5 weeks of garbage pilling up and the politicians cave on negotiations.

2) Seeing as your retired EMS.....I remember friends leaving NYC*EMS for NYC Sanitation and at the time we joked that both wore green uniforms, both drove white trucks with flashing lights, both had to pick up garbage, but sanitation limited the weight and it was already out on the curb.

[ex-commish 490]

Remember the difference between us and sanitation is their garbage doesn't talk back. :-)

We used to say that at the corrections department

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I don't think your analogy for the safe travels of an aircraft in most cases traveling faster than 400mph with anywhere from 10 to 500 lives on board compares to a guy inputing information from someone who is at a minimum excited. ATC has numerous layers it is not just landing planes and getting clearance to take off.

Dispatchers need the right attitude. Attitude means demeanor, and capability to collect and disseminate information as rapidly as possible. The people who hire said dispatchers should continually evaluate these members for skill level and competency. But if you think someone answering a phone deserves a 100k you are headed to the land of Apu answering your 911 call.

Emergency service dispatchers jobs have multiple layers to it as well. It's not just answering a phone as you put it. Maybe not 100k but more then $40,000. We will agree to disagree.

[PEMO3 523]

2) Seeing as your retired EMS.....I remember friends leaving NYC*EMS for NYC Sanitation and at the time we joked that both wore green uniforms, both drove white trucks with flashing lights, both had to pick up garbage, but sanitation limited the weight and it was already out on the curb.

You hit the nail on the head. Ever notice the the weight of the patient increases directly proportionally to the number of flights of stairs they need to be carried down e.g. the 90 lb frail old ladys live on the ground floor and the 400 lbs patients are usually on the top floor of the five story walk up.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

You hit the nail on the head. Ever notice the the weight of the patient increases directly proportionally to the number of flights of stairs they need to be carried down e.g. the 90 lb frail old ladys live on the ground floor and the 400 lbs patients are usually on the top floor of the five story walk up.

Better down then up!

[MPG1 48]

Seth, You left us a long time ago. Please do your homework! A grade 7 (dispatcher) Westchester County when they top out after 6 years makes 55k base. We get an emd stipend, differential around the clock, holiday pay (12 hrs time and a half plus equal time off) work (or are scheduled to work) twelve 12 hour shifts per 28 day cycle. There is also longevity, 35 hour work week, AND LOT'S OF OVERTIME if you want it. Of course you must work nights, weekends and holidays. With a very minimum of overtime (1 hour built in every week), storm coverage and BEING FORCED for that 18 hr. shift you are going to make seventy thousand dollars a year! Many of our chubby (I could use other words) dispatchers will make 80k to 100k this year. There is healthcare for you and your family (no charge @ this time??), a 457b plan (max it out), and decent NYS retirement if your a tier 4 or earlier hire. It's not great, we have been without a contract for over a year, and do deserve at least a cost of living raise (CPI 2.5 % yearly). But when you think about the amount of hours emt's and medics have to work just to survive we do alright! I will be working nights next week and will go in @ 1900 and get off @ 0700...so yeah there are some drawbacks. But with this economy I am happy to be working. And I know a lot of people signed up for the next test. Did you???

[x635 4,066]

MPG1, I completely agree with you that the pay and benefits can be excellent, especially the ones the county offers. I was basing my figures off of SeeThroughNY, and now see that I'm off quite a bit.

However, the holdovers, the facilities, and the workload all take a serious toll on your health. What is the turnover rate? Is the morale kept up on, and employee reconition, kept up on? Are their open positions, or ones that need to be added? And even $70,000 is not enough to live comfortably around here.

It's a great place to work, but it has potential to be a world class place to work, if the County would just fund it better. And 60 Control dispatchers are some of the best in the Country, and they deserve every tool....including a properly disciplined radio system countywide. Small steps, I guess.

[Remember585 815]

AND LOT'S OF OVERTIME if you want it.

For the Dispatchers... up here in "gray shirt land" I don't get any and it sucks.

[hudson144 150]

I can remember 1 communications operator, one phone to answer, can't remember the pay- a lot of changes since I was there back in 1983-86. #609. :-)

[Bnechis 3,961]

You hit the nail on the head. Ever notice the the weight of the patient increases directly proportionally to the number of flights of stairs they need to be carried down e.g. the 90 lb frail old ladys live on the ground floor and the 400 lbs patients are usually on the top floor of the five story walk up.

Just remember the rule of 3's:

After 3am

Above the 3rd floor or

Over 300 pounds and you are walking or I pronounce you where you stand.