Garbage Truck Flipover - Can Anyone Fill Us In?

[huzzie59 75]

I hear the rescue of the driver was complicated and that doctors were preparing to amputate the mans legs to get him out. But that's heresay.

Is there anyone that can fill us in on the rescue?

[peterose313 345]

They extricated him and OVAC transported to the med ctr. Lohud has a story/video/photos about it. They said it took 2 hours on the nose to extricate.

[SteveOFD 176]

I was on scene, but not directly involved with the extrication. From my vantage point the key to the extrication was when the wrecker was used (it had already been used to stablize the rig) to roll the cab, thereby providing the point to extricate the driver.

[wedgeclose 59]

The info I got was that it was a prolonged extrication .. 2 hours.. He was pinned in there pretty good. Medevac was requested due to the time for extrication but was down for weather. From the info I got a trauma surgical team was requested from WMC in case the victim took a turn for the worse and they had to RAPIDLY EXTRICATE HIM which may have resulted in an amputation of a leg. OFD and A and P towing did an amazing job together to get the guy out. The performance of Westchester County PD was terrible. They set up detours that went around in a circle and led people back to the same place. They remained in their cars and watched the people circle with no direction what so ever. One would think that after the last incident they would have devised a plan to get traffic through to Route 9 north but no such luck. It took them until 6 at night to figure out that they should close 9A North in Briarcliff with direction to RT 100 to the Taconic North. Once again OFD and OVAC worked as a team with good results.

[peterose313 345]

I have to agree on the traffic issues. I got caught in the traffic coming off 134 onto 9a north at about Stormytown Road. It took me about a half hour or so to get to Cedar Lane where they were detouring traffic. They had a vehicle (with nobody in it and no lights on) and a construction cone blocking the road. There was no officer directing anyone. Once you made the round about there was nobody to give directions as to which way to go so everyone followed one another. Me being from the area thought I could avoid the traffic by turning onto Ogden Road, only to find out that a wire was down across the road about halfway up. Granted Con Ed had a supervisor on scene there but there was nobody at the stop sign at the beginning of the road to prevent cars from going up. I was fortunate enough to know my way around the back roads to get back home. Eventually they decided to shut down 9a at the 134 intersection.

[helicopper 1,050]

Is it really the cops fault that the alternate roads are all windy one lane roads and people have no freakin' idea where they are? Not for anything but I found out about the accident while still in NYC and avoided the area from miles away. It's not like the media didn't warn people and it's really not rocket science.

And, after a while of hearing "is the road closed" and "but that's the way I know" you have to go back and sit in the car or you're gonna say something that gets you jammed up!

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Sounds like a hurt feelings report !

[BBBMF 158]

No, Thats Truth!

It's amazing when people don't have a contingency to get home because they've traveled the same road for 20 years...Or even better, you're cutting someone out of a car in a revene and someone asks you to move the fire apparatus because they want to get home. I've said it once and i'll say it again...I Love helping people, but I Hate People Sometimes!

[firebuff860 54]

Is it really the cops fault that the alternate roads are all windy one lane roads and people have no freakin' idea where they are? Not for anything but I found out about the accident while still in NYC and avoided the area from miles away. It's not like the media didn't warn people and it's really not rocket science.

And, after a while of hearing "is the road closed" and "but that's the way I know" you have to go back and sit in the car or you're gonna say something that gets you jammed up!

Helicopper,

While I understand serving the public can be a little frustrating, isnt that part of the job? I was nowhere near the accident, do not know the area that well, but...

If roads are closed down, and it is the PD closing those roads or at the point where the road is closed to keep the public out, is it too much to expect them to be at least a little bit courteous or helpful? I doubt everyone who got caught in the traffic knew a back way around it or had GPS to help them.

I know you and many othe LEO's feel there is an anti cop bias here (maybe there is), but to dismiss the complaint of the member above as the public are morons and poor drivers is a little disingenuous. You are not shy about jumping in on fire topics, so here is my first jumping in to an LEO topic: If you are at a barricade of a closed road, at least be outside of your car and try to be helpful to the public. If at such time you feel the need to draw your revolver, ask for another car to relieve you.

[x635 4,066]

What's really disgusting is these contractors, hired and D/B/A Westchester County hauling trash via tractor trailers from transfer stations to Charles Point, basically think they own the road and drive at very high speeds and without a ca.

Add on top of the fact is that 9A is just yet another severely outdated and obsolete roadway, especially for the trucks.

[PEMO3 523]

Is it really the cops fault that the alternate roads are all windy one lane roads and people have no freakin' idea where they are? Not for anything but I found out about the accident while still in NYC and avoided the area from miles away. It's not like the media didn't warn people and it's really not rocket science.

And, after a while of hearing "is the road closed" and "but that's the way I know" you have to go back and sit in the car or you're gonna say something that gets you jammed up!

Helicopper, to answer your question, no PD should not should the full blame. There is plenty of blame to go around on this one. Various news agencies reported that "9A was closed at Cedar" - usual spot for the famous "can't keep the shiny side up drivers". No news agency that I heard ever stated that route 9 north was also closed. The traffic was allowed to go through the route 134 intersection for hours and forced off at Cedar - again no issue, been done before except that Route 9 north was closed. In turn traffic then went south to make its way back north to 9A south to get to Rt 134 where they were met with hot tempers and traffic running the red light as they tried to navigate RT 134 toward the Taconic. Compound this with CBS 880 reporting the Taconic north closed at Underhill for a fatal MVA investigation causing more drivers that normal heading toward 9A north to opt for a detour as opposed to a closed highway. Put this together and you have a perfect storm so to speak. So did some proactive or reactive planning need to be done - yes. Remember, I said plenty to go around - we have blamed PD, DOT, and the news media, lets not leave the county without a piece of the pie. Remember CENS - the Community Emergency Notification System, that they wanted everyone to sign up for so they could communicate information to the general public. The system that comes alive and sends a message about every leap year. Use of such a system would have gotten timely accurate information to the public about roads that were open and closed and suggested detours. Remember with the Taconic closed just south of the Am-Vet Bridge and 9a and 9 both closed at the merge and traffic refusing to allow people to turn or merge left or right in some cases people were placed in what felt like a never ending loop. This could have become a public health or safety issue rapidly as buses were stuck with children on board, let alone in cars with parents and emergency vehicle would have been hampered responding through this gridlock.

Edited April 25, 2013 by PEMO3

[helicopper 1,050]

Helicopper,

While I understand serving the public can be a little frustrating, isnt that part of the job? I was nowhere near the accident, do not know the area that well, but...

If roads are closed down, and it is the PD closing those roads or at the point where the road is closed to keep the public out, is it too much to expect them to be at least a little bit courteous or helpful? I doubt everyone who got caught in the traffic knew a back way around it or had GPS to help them.

I know you and many othe LEO's feel there is an anti cop bias here (maybe there is), but to dismiss the complaint of the member above as the public are morons and poor drivers is a little disingenuous. You are not shy about jumping in on fire topics, so here is my first jumping in to an LEO topic: If you are at a barricade of a closed road, at least be outside of your car and try to be helpful to the public. If at such time you feel the need to draw your revolver, ask for another car to relieve you.

Yes, it is part of the job. Unfortunately the reality is that we are all still human and can get frustrated, too. I don't know if that's the case here but it contributes. As it does in other services where I've heard "screw 'em, let 'em wait in traffic" and "I can close the road so I'm gonna close the road F@(*$% 'em". But that's a discussion for another thread.

Traffic direction and control does not equal information booth and the traffic would be worse if every car stopped to ask for their own personal set of directions. Follow everyone else and you can probably figure it out. Almost everyone has a cell phone/smart phone/GPS/map and can obtain their own directions. Laziness and stupidity are not excuses. An unoccupied police car blocking the road probably indicated that the officer was needed elsewhere on the scene for something else. Not much you can do about that when you have limited resources available to you. Any officer sitting in his car may be writing a report or performing some other duties that you're not aware of.

I often ask questions and post comments in fire or EMS topics. That's very different than specifically bashing an agency here (which IS a violation of the forum rules by the way) for their conduct at a job. When I comment in a topic, I seldom tell people how to do their job whereas many here think that it is perfectly fine to do so about law enforcement. There IS an anti-law enforcement sentiment on this site and many have complained about it in the past.

I'm not dismissing any members "complaint". I made a comment equally obnoxious though not directed at any one agency. Mind you that I'm not the complaint department for any agency. If the member has a "complaint" there are official channels to lodge it and EMTBravo ain't it. Now, if you don't think that drivers education is virtually non-existent today and that people drive like morons (that is different than calling everyone a moron) I don't know where you drive.

[wedgeclose 59]

All it takes is getting the correct information out to the public. Someone HAS to take the responsbility of doing that. They knew as soon as they got on the scene that is was going to be HOURS before traffic was allowed through there. Right then and there a detour should have been set up that made sense not a merry go round. Common sense should ring in somebody's head.

[Remember585 815]

1. With the TSP northbound closed during this incident due to a serious MVA, that doesn't help things.

2. People should know alternate routes and/or how to use a map/GPS.

3. There's a plethora of those nifty message boards out there. In instances like this, coordination of agencies (PD, OEM, etc.) should get them out there to help assist people. It's 2013, there's no reason why we can't get these now and not keep everyone in the blind.

4. The main alternative route was through Crotonville, down Quaker Bridge Road out to Route 129. This road isn't the best for the trucks that were detoured and I am amazed none of them got into any accidents.

5. Can you all imagine what things will be like should we ever need to evacuate... that s*** ain't happening!

[huzzie59 75]

When I started this topic, I was looking to hear about the rescue. "The man's legs were stuck under 50 tons of truck, caught between the blah, blah, blah....and we did this and did that and sent for the surgical team,etc. etc. etc."

BUT,

Instead I got to read a pissing match between "adults" about whether the police handled the traffic duties correctly.

Sorry I asked a question and got everybody upset!

[PEMO3 523]

Sorry I asked a question and got everybody upset!

No need to appologize. I hindsight this should have been a topic for a separate thread and if anything you are the one owed an apology for having your topic detailed and I appologize for being part of it.

[helicopper 1,050]

Agreed. No need to apologize. This thread, like so many others, went off on a little bit of a tangent. But because of the kind of response about the PD most members are reluctant (or under orders) to post details about strategies and tactics here because of the criticism. Instead of treating it like an opportunity to learn how someone else handled a serious job, it almost always devolves into antagonistic banter.

[helicopper 1,050]

All it takes is getting the correct information out to the public. Someone HAS to take the responsbility of doing that. They knew as soon as they got on the scene that is was going to be HOURS before traffic was allowed through there. Right then and there a detour should have been set up that made sense not a merry go round. Common sense should ring in somebody's head.

Information WAS pushed out to the public. It was on the radio, NY-Alert, the internet, etc.

Unfortunately you can't MAKE people listen to the radio, read the VMS, or take responsibility for their own driving.

[Piranha174 37]

The info I got was that it was a prolonged extrication .. 2 hours.. He was pinned in there pretty good. Medevac was requested due to the time for extrication but was down for weather. From the info I got a trauma surgical team was requested from WMC in case the victim took a turn for the worse and they had to RAPIDLY EXTRICATE HIM which may have resulted in an amputation of a leg. OFD and A and P towing did an amazing job together to get the guy out. The performance of Westchester County PD was terrible. They set up detours that went around in a circle and led people back to the same place. They remained in their cars and watched the people circle with no direction what so ever. One would think that after the last incident they would have devised a plan to get traffic through to Route 9 north but no such luck. It took them until 6 at night to figure out that they should close 9A North in Briarcliff with direction to RT 100 to the Taconic North. Once again OFD and OVAC worked as a team with good results.

Nice job at being critical of the police. You want us to be supportive of volunteers and a statement like that?

[Remember585 815]

Some info and pics of the incident at our website HERE.

[helicopper 1,050]

Another distinction... The PD didn't establish "detours". They closed a road. There IS a difference. A detour implies a designated route to avoid a trouble spot (like the traffic plan devised when the gas tanker blew up under I-87 in Yonkers years ago). In that case, the route was identified, posted, and communicated to travelers.

This was a simple road closure. Motorists could choose whatever route they wanted to circumvent the accident scene.

It took me about a half hour or so to get to Cedar Lane where they were detouring traffic.

They set up detours that went around in a circle and led people back to the same place.

[helicopper 1,050]

Some info and pics of the incident at our website HERE.

Going by the pictures, it was E119 blocking the road. Not the PD!!!

(before anyone loses their mind and takes me seriously this was a JOKE!)

[Bnechis 3,961]

This was a simple road closure. Motorists could choose whatever route they wanted to circumvent the accident scene.

1) You are ASSuming that motorists are smart enough to choose another route

2) Those that were complaining the most apparently did not choose another route

[helicopper 1,050]

1) You are ASSuming that motorists are smart enough to choose another route

2) Those that were complaining the most apparently did not choose another route

Now now, I never said anyone is not smart. I said they drive like morons!!!

[PEMO3 523]

Helicopper does not the mere closing of a road create a "detour". The difference here is that the closure created a detour sending many drivers onto unfamiliar roads and areas. The statement "just follow the car in front" - really. So if I am going to Rockland and your going to Danbury the solution is if lost just follow the car in front?

[wedgeclose 59]

OK the answer is......The police closed the road....so it's everyman for himself? Forget that we know we are sending them onto roads that will return them to the most clogged intersection we have. Had there been any kind of emergency anywhere around the intersection of RT 9A and RT 134 there was NO CHANCE to get emergency vehicles to the scene because ALL the roads are single lane and they were in GRIDLOCK! i DO SUPPORT THE POLICE....know many of them personally...that does not cloud my opinion of the job they did on that particular day in that particular incident. It was been two days since and I have not seen any enforcement in the area checking these oversize trucks. It'll be about a week and we'll go through it again. You do know that had that truck gone through that merge like an hour later there would have been a parade of school busses heading up Rt.9 IN THAT VERY SPOT...safe to say there would have been numerous fatalities had they collided. So relax..if the shoe fits wear it.

[helicopper 1,050]

Helicopper does not the mere closing of a road create a "detour". The difference here is that the closure created a detour sending many drivers onto unfamiliar roads and areas. The statement "just follow the car in front" - really. So if I am going to Rockland and your going to Danbury the solution is if lost just follow the car in front?

My point is that if you look at the detours on I-78 or I-80 or even the TSP up in Putnam County, there are posted detour signs providing alternate route guidance. THAT's a detour.

All that was done here was a road closure. If you want to make it a detour because all these truck drivers take that hill too damn fast and this happens too often, petition DOT to post signs and map out the alternate routes.

I'm not suggesting someone going to Rockland follow someone going to Danbury. All I would suggest is that people know where they're going and how to get there. That isn't too much to ask, is it?

[x635 4,066]

Just out of curiousity, were the HELP trucks there or NYS*DOT? They should be helping with traffic control, like they do in other major situations.

And one of the biggest challenges....you can't route commericial vehicles to the Taconic, and when one person thinks they know a better detour, everyone else follows that one person, throws everything off. And there is no real north-south detour nearby.

As for County PD not being out of their cars, they should be directing traffic, which I'm sure they were at some places. HOWEVER, WCPD Officers get struck by vehicles on an almost routine basis. Why put themselves in harms way with frantic rush hour drivers who aren't paying attention?

[huzzie59 75]

AGAIN........Are you guys still pissing at each other over the traffic situation.

If, there was nothing wrong with the truck, because we are all blaming the driver;

If, the truck driver wasn't driving so fast;

If, the truck wasn't overweight;

If, the driver didn't get trapped;

If, the fire department worked faster and extricated the driver faster;

If, the EMS personnel could have gotten the surgical team there faster to cut off the drivers legs;

Maybe, just maybe, the world would be perfect!

But answer this.................

If a dalmation had a square ass, would he poop dice?

[PEMO3 523]

We can go back and forth all day that diverted traffic for a road closure is or is not a detour. Fact is simple someone, PD,FD,EMS,DOT, whoever needed to be proactive and send a DOT truck out with a few barrels and orange & black arrow signs and blaze a trail out and around and back to 9 past the incident. DOT was not doing anything until the extrication was done. Those arrow signs and a road closed sign would have freed up PD resources. You are correct that there should be some permanent alternative route signs but we allow know that changes like this in NY let alone Westchester almost require an act of congress.