Should The Way Parades Are Judged Be Changed?

[x635 4,066]

Recently, I found out that the Westchester Parade Judges Association has me in target, lol. I'd just like to say I have nothing against them, and respect what they do and the decisions they make. I stand by the fact I think TL-57 looked GREAT, and it should have won. Just like a referee/umpire or Olympic Judges, or other public judging associations there are going to be people who don't agree with or like the decisions made!! Since they are a public orgiinization, that is part of the deal with making judements. I do respect their decision of E-199, it looked great as well. But that's a whole different story. This post has nothing to do with them, and is just my opinion regarding parades in general, NOT them. I AM NOT forming a parade judging association to compete with them by any means, but I am going to judge a couple of parades using my standards for FUN and unofficially, and post the results on the site. (See This Thread:The EMTBravo.com Parade Judges Association Despite what I have been told by someone, I'm pretty sure I am allowed to do this!

Anyways,

I'm pretty sure that this is the year 2005. I think that judging Parades by shiny trucks, how many guys in march and in step, etc etc is antiquated and really serves no purpose for enhancing our main goal, serving the public.

Apparatus should be judged on other things such as layout, maintainence,tools carried, innovative hose pack, progressiveness and innovations, NFPA compiance and safety features, pride taken in the apparatus, etc etc. Manpower should be judged on certifications/classes, turnout gear, physical fitness, etc

We should be proud of winning trophys at parades for firematic reasons, not because we can detail a truck and march in step. Everybody likes a shiny firetruck, and many people enjoy the competion of who can do it the best. But we are here to serve the public. Why can't we be more competive and more focused when it comes to that? Why can't we be more proud of our ability to be better firematically at a parade then at a traditional parade? Who knows what great ideas that a "new style" parade could breed, and where it could lead us...

Just my 0.02 cents. What's yours?

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

I think the point about parades is being missed. Formal drills such as parades/inspections are to promote the Esprit De Corp. of an agency. This team effort builds many various things while they clean, practice and execute. This all ads to the cohesiveness of the agency that I would hope carries on to the fire ground. I understand where you are coming from as far as your ideas of alternate point building etc, But most of the things listed would be argumentative in most cases. When would a departments credentials be submitted? Who would be the authority on inovations? And we have to remember. Not all departments have the same needs as others. This would lead to varied pack loads and equipment. Should that be held against them because it dons't meet the "standards" of the judge?

Many things to consider when revamping but you have to start somewhere.

[EJS1810 7]

Unfortunatly every year when parade season starts we get into a debate about parades vs firefighting. It is a battle that no one wins and in my opinion only creates more contraversy.

There is no way to judge firefighting. I believe thay call that Monday Morning Quarterbacking and that is not allowed here. I have never heard tones for the WCFJA (westchester County Firefighting Judges Association) and I hope I never do. If you want tojudge how a fire department operates look at thier ISO rating.

Parades are a chance to show our departments off to the public. They want to see shiny trucks and crisp marching. They couldn't tell a Mattydale Lay from a Minuteman Load.

Parades are a chance to see other departments and learn how thier vehicles are set up. There is no way to say my engine is set up batter then yours. It is up to each indiviual department to set the vehicle up as they feel they need.

We cant march down the street holding our certificates to show what training we have. We could look really Buffy with a NYS Firefighter patch on our sleeves with rockers for all the classes we have taken (Last I knew you could buy them from FSA at Montour Falls) but I can show you pleanty of people who have taken every class available in NYS and surrounding states that still dont know which end of the nozzle to point to the fire.

Lets not try to compare the two. Parades and inspections are like car shows to show off our best. They are meant to honor special people like Katonah is doing this year with Jimmy Boy. Parades are also a way to honor the host department's deceased members.

We should always work on our main mission and strive to be the best. But there is no judging involved. Enjoy the parade season, meet your friends have fun.

EJS

[Remember585 815]

Also targeted, someone from my Company/Department.

:cry: Boo-Hoo. :cry:

If you're going to judge something, be prepared to be second-guessed! It's only natural, just like a sports ref / ump! People put a lot of time and effort into looking their best, so OBVIOUSLY they will be offended when they lose!!!

I'm now taking bets that we don't win ANYTHING in the near future. Apparently, freedom of speech is dead. Any takers on this gamble?

And, for the record, I can't believe the hot-button issue at a recent "association" meeting was this topic?! What about something of substance and actual importance?!!!!

[x635 4,066]

I'm sorry. I absolutely disagree with the statements that parades are for, or good for, department spirit. If that is what builds spirit, then that department is in serious trouble.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but it really builds my spirit by being able to use my training and equipment to help somebody. It builds my spirit to be able to learn and grow as a professional. Although I do agree Parades are great for "community relations", It really doesn't build my spirit at all to march down the street with shiny firetrucks with half the people marching there for one liquid reason.

Parades are fun for me, because I am an apparatus enthusiast. But professionally, are we here to "have fun" or do a job? I guess what I'm trying to say is that we could be better focusing our time on enhancing fire and ems things, rather then marching in a parade. Maybe we should be having firematic competions, instead of parades. Such as who can get water on the fire the fastest, extrication competion, etc in addition to the more traditional aspects.

It seems people take who wins what award at a parade more seriously then firematic things sometimes, and spend time on parades that could be spent doing other things. All I am saying is maybe "ehnanced" parade judging could be a tool or incentive to improve or encourage improvment on some issues.

[Guest]

You are not allowed to judge parades if you are not invited by the department, even if you say it is for fun or unofficial. In fact, you can be removed from the route if you try to judge or interefere with regular parade judging, and the real parade judges even if you are just watching.

Parades are judged the way they are judged for a reason. Deal with it. Who do you think you are trying to change things? Keep your opinions to yourself [-X

[mstrang1 213]

x635-

BRAVO!!! (no pun intended...) I totally agree with your statements. A day where all Depts get together and have firematic competitions would be great! THAT would promote "esprit de Corps", in my opinion.

And who would know if you are "judging" a parade from the sidelines anyway? as long as you do not approach the apparatus during the route, you will be ok. And do a little closeup inspection before and after the parade.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I can solve the problem. Stop strict judging and use common sense. Trophy or no trophy I took pride if we looked good in march to the crowd and the kids.

Trophy parades take away a portion of public interaction. They want you to march like your in the military, when we should be smiling and waving to the crowds for their support.

The only thing trophies are good for are collecting dust and taking up room which most of us don't have anymore. Besides, can you honestly say its fair when you have show piece trucks vs. trucks that catch a lot of jobs?

Give the parades back to the people.

[PVFD113 6]

I must vent a bit here--both sides have their point on this matter. Even though apparatus is very impressive and should be well kept--they are still a functional piece of firefighting apparatus. Yes a big RED fire truck LOOKS great--all for it--but when it starts to effect your response order etc--it becomes a problem--and this does happen-Ya know what--trucks get dirty driving to a parade too. To go and clean every piece of the chassis is just plain out insane--IT IS A FIRE TRUCK--A WORKING MACHINE!!! Lets spend more money on chrome and diamond plate or stainless--because it looks better?!? Functionality before appearance it a must--not to mention the additional expense to the taxpayers--TO LOOK NICE.

On the other side of things--cleaning a rig takes alot of time--lots--time that we could all be spending on training etc--not to mention time with your family.

A "dirty" rig is not the image you want either. Wash it, tidy it up, and go. ALS is right--trophies are good for--collecting dust--got a storage room full of them--without sacrificing an arm or leg to clean our trucks. I am proud however of our trucks and how they have served us(for the most part).

Enough rambling--simply stated--some dept's take the whole parade thing way to serious. Have fun--it is our time to show off a bit!!!

And besides--there are times when things do seem to be kinda pre determined--not always and not proven--just seems like it at times.

[x635 4,066]

You are not allowed to judge parades if you are not invited by the department, even if you say it is for fun or unofficial.  In fact, you can be removed from the route if you try to judge or interefere with regular parade judging, and the real parade judges even if you are just watching.

Parades are judged the way they are judged for a reason. Deal with it. Who do you think you are trying to change things? Keep your opinions to yourself  [-X

What is this, Attack The Seth Week?????

I don't do this often, but you are now the recipient of an official x635 brand NO!!!

What you are saying just sounds absurd to me! Just because I have Darth Tater as my avatar does not make me crazy!!

First off, I have EVERY right to state my opinion, when it's done positvely and constructively, thats part of the purpose of this forum. And who DO YOU think you are to try and censor me? Why are you so seemingly afraid of change? Why can't I make a topic for d-i-s-c-u-s-s-i-o-n ?????? What is wrong with that? What is this "reason" you speak of?

Since I'm going to be viewing and photographing the parade, I will be standing to the side watching with the rest of the crowd. We are going to create several modern and fun categories while doing this and award points via a worksheet, nothing that involves touching or approaching the rigs by any means, and post the results on this site. I'm HIGHLY doubtful that you can have me removed from viewing a public parade just for doing that. In case you weren't listening before, I AM NOT TRYING TO COMPETE WITH WCPJA!!!! I am just trying to do something fun for the site, and a select couple of people are taking this way, way out of context and way too seriously. I do not understand what the problem is???? I also find it highly agitating that you would imply that I would be removed from a parade for watching the parade, picking our favorites, and posting it here??? There is something seriously wrong there....

ALS and PVFD, great posts and excellent insight, I agree completly with both.

[WAS967 97]

Parades are judged the way they are judged for a reason. Deal with it. Who do you think you are trying to change things? Keep your opinions to yourself Shame on you

I was gonna recommend you follow your own advice but seth did it much better than I could have. I would have just told you to shove it.

[firemn23 8]

Who doesnt go to a parade and pick out their favoirites. My personal favorite is a tanker from Conneticut that is always at the Pville parade. Oh did I say that out loud I hope I am allowed to go to the memorial day parade. Everyone make a donation to emtbravo for bail money.

[PVFD113 6]

Forgot 1 thing in my last post

Chrome and Wax don't put the fire out or rescue the trapped victim. We do--the firefighters--with our functional (yet not always pretty) apparatus.

I think we should ALL agree on this.

[Guest]

x635 nobody cares what you think is the best. What a joke. Its gonna be hard for you to do that you dont know anything. That's why the judges are the judges and you are not. Parades are not going to change, everybody likes them the way they are. We are not only here for firefighting. If you cant even keep your truck clean and in shape you cant fight a fire. I'm also sure that the owners of this site don't want you using their name for your little project. I've even spoken with them about my concerns and they even say you will have no authorization to do this. Nobody wants you and your stupid list, so go cry elsewhere

ALSFirefighter nobody would want to come to a parade if they were not judged. It is a competition. What are you a beauty queen with your smiling and waving to the crowd

You people have no idea

[x635 4,066]

OK, "ExCheifPJ", I'm starting to get a little suscpicous that you are just someone messing around with me. The stuff you are saying and implying is just ridculous and absurd. There is NO way you can be serious! And did you read my above reply to you?

I'm also really fascinated that EMTBravo said I had no authorization to do that. Those who know me will understand completly what I mean by that.

And, WATCH YOUR NEGATIVE, NASTY comments! They are against the rules and purpose of this forum (I'm temporarily granting myself a waiver here...) Do this again, and they will be deleted and continue to do so and you will be removed. These posts are only still up so I can rebut your idiotic posts! Do you even know what you are talking about? Or are you just making stuff up?

Oh, and we WILL be at Pleasantville, and we WILL be picking our favorites, and we WILL be taking photos, and letting the members of this site choose a members choice! So deal with that, Mr. Bitter and Miserable!!

[Plectron 1]

The WCPJA must be invited by the hosting depatment to judge the parade. The Host's can choose whoever they want to judge and set up any rules they want for the judging.

[JM15 386]

EXchiefPJ is a moron just ignore him he obviously has no idea what he is talking about

[EJS1810 7]

I rest my case.

[Guest]

The WCPJA must be invited by the hosting depatment to judge the parade. The Host's can choose whoever they want to judge and set up any rules they want for the judging.

Thank you Plectron! See, even he says you have no right to be there and do this!!!

Call me what you want, idiots. I'm sure none of you will ever make chief of your department.

[Guest]

Bro, you don't want to mess with x635!!

[Guest DADAY]

Wow, feel the anger. Sorry that you take you job as a judge to serious. No need to make harsh comments. So your were chief? when and for how long? No way are you gonna say that when you didn't win a throphy you weren't upset. And I would bet that many times a phrase like "those judges suck, or are crazy" came out. Right or wrong?

So if a few people want to go and look so be it. What do you think all the other guys from other depts do when the watch with thier families, they judge the trucks in their own opinions.

But more over what are you affraid of? That people won't like your trucks and dept?

See you at Pleasentville EMTBRAVO PARADE JUDGES!!!!

[x635 4,066]

The WCPJA must be invited by the hosting depatment to judge the parade. The Host's can choose whoever they want to judge and set up any rules they want for the judging.

Thank you Plectron! See, even he says you have no right to be there and do this!!!

Call me what you want, idiots. I'm sure none of you will ever make chief of your department.

I AM NOT JUDGING THE PARADE! IN THAT SENSE!!!!!! What are you people not understanding? Clean out your ears! I am going to make a list of our favorites, and post it on this site! There is NOTHING wrong with that at all! This type of political and egotistical nonsense is what gives a certain sector of the fire service a bad name, and what drives people away! You are not god of the parades!!! I hope you are this passionate about response and delivery of service!!! Why is this such a big deal that I want to do this?

Ugh, Serenity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now, Serentity Now...........

Nice post, DADAY

[Guest alsfirefighter]

OK. Seth you might want to turn away for a bit on this one. Its time I open things up like I've wanted to. Everyone on here that knows me...knows I would say to anyone in person what I said...not the case for some that I can see on here so let me start now. (I know a few of you have been waiting.)

First, am I a beauty queen. Queen no, but my nickname is pretty boy. Maybe if you took your meds you could meet a girl to rid you of your frustration. You have the nerve to call others a joke. Hate to tell you bud but the joke is on you. You say it all in your post to show what time of small minded, petty person you are. Maybe mommy didn't shower you with enough attention, or you were picked on a lot in high school, maybe your overweight or have no @ss, I don't know, personally I don't care. But you are the only one that looks moronic here pal and I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have the b@lls to run your mouth in person the way you are on here. You are exactly the disease on the fire service that holds all back in it. Don't get involved in a real issue, argue about an insignifcant one. One word for you WHACKER, WOOD CHUCK. Sounds like to me you might need a wake up call.

"If you can't keep your truck clean and neat you can't fight a fire." Apparantly you don't know what your talking about. Which looking at your banter doesn't surprise me. There is a difference of being clean and neat compared to spit and polish (aka never used). I've seen some parade best trucks with @ss backwards firefighters (more like fireman) coming off of it and operating and I'm willing to bet your one of them. I'm willing to bet X635 could judge a parade better then half of them out there because he will use common sense. Like not opening a cab or compartment door while a vehicle is in motion. How's that for a safety issue, then tell you to keep driving. Not when I'm at the wheel pal.

"Noone would come to a parade if it weren't judged." Yeah ok champ, maybe in your small, closed minded world. The parades are suppose to promote the fire service, hence interacting with the spectators. Not pretending to be something your not. Here's a news flash for you...take a look around, crowds are becoming less and less at parades. Departments are showing up with less and less but the band prices continually increase. Nothing has changed....your right. Tradition gets you all bound up like a lot of other mindless robotic fire service members. Its a competition. What a joke. You want competition, have a friendly competition about who is gonna have a better drill attendance average, who is gonna attend the most training courses. So keep worrying about winning trophies to collect dust and I'll keep training to make me better, my rear safe and to teach others to stay alive.

I remember when I was younger, there was a department in the northwest corner of Westchester a rather small one that had patches made up with skunks that said one particular judging association stinks. I can't remember which association it was but I loved it. And everyone knows some hold grudges like when you choose someone other then them to do it.

[Plectron 1]

The WCPJA must be invited by the hosting depatment to judge the parade. The Host's can choose whoever they want to judge and set up any rules they want for the judging.

Thank you Plectron! See, even he says you have no right to be there and do this!!!

Call me what you want, idiots. I'm sure none of you will ever make chief of your department.

I NEVER SAID THAT THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO DO THIS, I WAS JUST STATING A FACT. MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL BOYCOTT THE WCPJA AND JUDGE THE PARADE'S IN-HOUSE!

YOU ARE A MORON PJ

[Guest dball]

dear ALSFirefighter,

Yo Bro, well said!

[Remember585 815]

PJ - You're oblivious to what most of us call "reality."

In "Reality" 90-95% of us FIREFIGHTERS attend parades to take pride in ourselves, and to perhaps make some kid's day when we march by his smiling, flag-waving face. I, for one, don't care about trophies, and think all this "judging" ruins why we do what we do.

Making the highly educated comment that "none of you will be Chiefs" is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Anyone you talk to can confirm that some Chiefs are just plain DUMB and having that title doesn't make them more superior then a regular firefighter. How a Chief does their job and how they treat their peers is what makes a good leader - not a title. And, on the same path, a f-ing trophy doesn't make a fire truck or a group of firefighters more superior then the others we march with. We're all the same!

You, my friend, are a thick-headed, narrow-minded moron. Good luck in life, with your shiny fire trucks and dumb trophies. Let me know how well they put out your next fire.

[WAS967 97]

I'll let the others do the ranting. I'll keep mine simple.

ExChiefPJ: SHOVE IT

[jml582 3]

I think we all just need a group hug!

[TRUCK6018 50]

Call me what you want, idiots. I'm sure none of you will ever make chief of your department.

As a matter of fact, there are many here that are current chiefs and many that are past chiefs! I'm sure most of them see things differently than you.

I agree with every one here that parade judging is a farce! Who cares who's diamond plate is shinier. A piece of fire apparatus isn't worth the dollars spent on it if it not properly equiped and the firefighters properly trained to operate it.

In seeing what the WCPJA has done at parades, I wouldn't want them to judge. Do the host departments specify which participating departments get judged? I know for a fact that mid way through parades the judges have pack there bags and left. Hows that for fair competition when only the first half of a parade gets judged.

[x635 4,066]

  I'm also sure that the owners of this site don't want you using their name for your little project. I've even spoken with them about my concerns and they even say you will have no authorization to do this.

Guys, this should prove that this guy is a liar and is making stuff up. I highly doubt he is even a parade judge or ex-chief. It's easy to hide behind an online name and keyboard and spew.