Gun Control in America

[dwcfireman 656]

In response to a friend's Facebook comment, in which he stated that the United States should 'take ALL guns away from everyone,' I posted this in his comments:

"Friend, as much as I agree with gun control, taking ALL guns away is a bit extreme. There are many reasons to own guns, like for hunting, target shooting, or home/self protection.

Example: I live in a bad neighborhood. Cars get broken into, assaults happen all the time, and the law is only enforced if the police are actively cruising the street. I have a loaded weapon, legally registered and owned, next to my bed for my safety. If someone breaks into my apartment with the intent to harm me, it will be their last mistake.

The NJ cops that were shot at f***** up and didn't properly secure the weapon, and generally weapons are not allowed in the holding areas of police stations for this reason.

Also, even if you did take away every gun from every 'law abiding citizen,' you still have not corrected the true issue, which is illegal guns being sold on the Black Market to criminals whose sole intent is to harm others for their own gain. You can take my gun away, but it still won't stop anyone from breaking into my apartment with a Gat in their hand.

My personal opinion is that the media is to blame. Every time there is a major incident involving guns the media portrays the shooter as this monster, and he becomes the main focus of the story (instead of the victims). The shooter gets s***-tons of air time, thus making him famous...so all the other nut jobs out there start to think, "If I can one-up the previous guy, then I'll also be a celebrity." Hence, another massacre.

Further, every time these shootings happen, no one ever stops to think about why the shooter committed the crime. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon to get rid of guns, get rid of violent video games, delete violence from tv and movies, and put God back in schools. Why are we not lobbying for the research into psychosis and all the other illnesses that the media claims and relates to these violent attacks? There is no proven evidence that anything causes this behavior.

My personal opinion: If you want to blame murder on guns, then I blame obesity and childhood diabetes on spoons. We should take away ALL the spoons."

I bring this topic up in light of the recent event in West Webster, NY where four firefighters were shot at, killing two and injuring the others. And again in Alabama, where firefighters were fired upon...And New Jersey, where a prisoner got hold of a weapon and fire upon police officers. I have always been a firm believer in the Second Amendment, and I exercise that right as a law abiding citizen, and want to know others' opinions on the subject.

Are people on this site un owners? What is your take on gun control? What do you think is causing these massacres? What do you think should be done to make not only our job, but Americans in general, safer?

[foreman1923 22]

You hit the nail on the head, very well said I couldn't agree with you more brother

[antiquefirelt 994]

Pretty spot on, though getting rid of violent video games, media and putting God back in schools is likely less realistic than disarming all of America. Statistically violent crime is down, but at the same time we are so overstimulated with media that those tens of thousands of crimes we never heard about outside our own localities just a few years ago are now literally in everyone's face, via personal electronic devices, scrolling TV banners, 24/7/365 news channels, etc ad nauseum. It appears we as a whole cannot handle the truth. There are no single silver bullets to the problem, millions of tiny strands that can enhance the safety of everyone, most of which starts right in our own homes.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I've held off on commenting on the gun issue for awhile as it is a sensitive subject.

I am a proud, legal gun owner. I obtained my NYS pistol permit in 2008 and own several handguns, as well as long guns.

I am in no way, shape or form a gun nut, but i certainly believe in a persons right to carry.

As a legal gun owner, i will say that the gun laws are very flawed, especially in here in New York. The laws seem to vary County to County and Judge to Judge.

Personally, i think that the gun laws need to be re-vamped and updated, instead of putting new laws on the books.

Finger printing, background checks and references are great, but wheres the Psychological exam? As a gun owner, i would gladly adhere to such testing (god i hope i'd pass). In my opinion, this would be a good start.

Add a psychological exam to the process for EVERY applicant. Even better, make ALL Permit holders under-go a psych exam every 1-2 years. This would A) ensure the permit holder is of sound mind and 2) make the State some revenue as you could charge for such exams (i would gladly pay such a fee).

I feel that the basic pistol safety course could use some updating, but its certainly a good start.

If you are granted an unrestricted permit (full carry), you should be held to a much higher standard (IMO). On top of the existing process, you should have to qualify (such as LEOs do) on the range to be granted the unrestricted. You should also then have to re-qualify each year.

Many of my gun owning brethren may not agree with me or think this is overkill, but i firmly believe it would be a good start and would benefit us all.

I will give a quick example of how the law is skewed here in NY;

I work part time as a Court Officer and have been for several years now. I received my NYS pistol permit through Westchester in 2008 and changed to Orange when i moved here.

After living in Orange for about 2 years, i applied to amend my permit to an "unrestricted." I had to take the day off of work and go before a judge on a Friday morning. I was well dressed and nothing but courteous and professional. I spoke of my background, as well as my training in regards to firearms. After each pause in my speaking, the judge would say things such as "so" or "ok and?" By Monday afternoon i had a letter from the County denying me of an unrestricted permit. The judges "reasoning;" there would be one more gun on the streets.

I know of civilians with little to no training in firearms who have been granted unrestricted permits. Is this an issue? I certainly believe so.

Do i believe that a gun is the end-all, say-all for self defense and protection? Absolutely not. This is where maturity, common sense and experience come into play.

There will be times when and where a gun just isn't the answer. Your best line of defense will always be your brain. If you can walk away or talk yourself out of an incident, then you should do so. If and when an incident arises that warrants the use of a firearm, you better damn well be ready to not only use it, but deal with the consequences. There will be times when you are caught off guard and will not be able to draw your weapon in a safe and timely manner. Again, this is where your brain, common sense and training come into play.

All this said, i would much rather have the (legal) option to carry a firearm if i so desired than to be unarmed and defenseless.

Not to sound cliche, but i'd also rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

In the words of Kenny Rogers, "you got to know when to hold em' know when to fold em."

[ex-commish 490]

Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking. The war on drugs hasn't stopped people from getting drugs. Tell me how stricter gun laws will stop the violence. Look at Chicago and thier murder rate yet they have tough gun laws. If a law abiding citizen wants to carry he/she should be able to. As far as the massacres? Tough one. Better mental health awareness, tougher jail sentences ( the perp that shot the brothers in Webster was a convicted murderer and should of still been in prison) to start. Maybe curtailing some of the violence on TV? Video games? Internet? And i mean in the home. Do kids need Grand Theft Auto? With all the sports games out there why the need for such a violent game?

[MoFire390 118]

The video games have ratings. No parent should be buying any game with a M (Mature) rating. Its insane. The amount of children on XBOX live is crazy all playing games with M ratings. 8-13 yo playing games like this. Crazy parents need to get their heads examined. When my wife and I met I told her I would never buy a game for my childern with an M-T rating because the game is simply not made for them for a reason. Granted Video game ratings is pretty new. Enough of the video game rant.

To the gun control. I am a firm beliver in making assualt rifles legal and that it might be the only way to get them off the streets. Make them legal and have the owners register them. If I'm not mistaken the ATF has a data base with pistol bullistics markings.

[antiquefirelt 994]

The video games have ratings. No parent should be buying any game with a M (Mature) rating. Its insane. The amount of children on XBOX live is crazy all playing games with M ratings. 8-13 yo playing games like this. Crazy parents need to get their heads examined. When my wife and I met I told her I would never buy a game for my childern with an M-T rating because the game is simply not made for them for a reason. Granted Video game ratings is pretty new. Enough of the video game rant.

To the gun control. I am a firm beliver in making assualt rifles legal and that it might be the only way to get them off the streets. Make them legal and have the owners register them. If I'm not mistaken the ATF has a data base with pistol bullistics markings.

Making "assault weapons" legal? First, perhaps you could define this term? Many or most of the firearms that most banners are looking for are currently legal to own. In the most accurate means, a true assualt weapon is a selctive fire firearm, that is legal for some to own, with proper background checks, registration and a $200 stamp, the rest are merely semi-automatic firearms that look like many full auto military weapons, but are in fact the action system as many common hunting rifles. The true assault weapons are rarely the ones used in crimes, and the legally owned ones ha ve a nearly perfect record of not being involved in crimes, proof that some registration rules do work, likley requiring the extensive paperwork and an extra $200 per firearm limits the buyers considerably, not to mention the actual fiream itself is far more expensive.

As for an ATF database of all pistols ballistics markings? I doubt that very much, I think you may be confusing this with the UK's system? I can fairly easily agree with registering all firerms, I and anyone else who legally owns and have no ill intentions should have no reason to feear the US government. This would limit the sale between private parties where the seller can easily be duped if they even carea at all. As for bans of any type? I see that as yet again punishing law abiding citizens while failing to recognize that those intent on murder will not adhere to other lesser laws. In the end, those who want another or others dead can, will and do find many other ways.

I live a few miles from the town proper and police response to a shooting on my road (self-inficted) just today was over 10 minutes. I for one like the odds my firearms provide my GF while I'm on my 24 hour shift. She could probably take out a many adult males with her hands and sheer determination, but an alert Black Lab and a magazine full of 5.56mm makes it a nearly sure thing.

[okcomputer 12]

I normally shy away from posting anything regarding topics such as these but it seems to me that there has been a lot of fingerpointing going on within this topic.

Here's my proposal:

Get rid of the illegal guns being sold in America and being brought in illegally.

Punish those with substantial jail times and fines (both purchaser and seller. - Ship them off to max security with either solitary confinement or mingling with the other criminals in max security prisons.

Get all the guns out of the inner cities.

Get rid off all gangs, and all illegal training camps in the USA.

Now regarding the first person shooter video games that people say create violent criminals. I find that funny because last time I checked a weapon doesn't come with a keyboard and mouse and if it were true then I should be in the NFL by now with the amount of Madden football I've played in my day. Same goes for the NHL, I was awesome at NHL '94 on genesis. Best hockey game ever created.

Do I think owning an AK should be prohibited, yeah, but those thst I know who have one or other rifles I trust and ill be going to their homes as we make our trek to Texas when the proverbial hits the fan.

I also find the term "assault weapon" extremely funny. Because it is a made up liberal term to provoke fear, and it doesn't mean anything. You can use anything as a weapon so why are kitchen utensils not included or chairs or cars. - Get my drift?

In a few months this will go away from being the hot topic just as those still reeling from Sandy has. The media will focus on something else, and around Memorial Day you will here some news reports about the jersey shore and Long Beach regarding how business will be for the summer.

Right now felons cannot obtain weapons legally. That's gun control at work. No need to do what westchester did and post every gun owner on a map as if they were as dangerous as pedophiles. I think that move was pathetic and it was another way for democrats to strum up fear and nonsense.

Shootings happen everyday, but unless they make the news no one cares.

* The above is my personal opinion.

[1911 34]

Read a NY Times Bestselling book called "On Killing" by Col. Dave Grossman. I believe its required reading now for West Point, Annapolis, and the USMC, etc...This guy Grossman nails it ...Its about why we kill, and the cause & effect of it on the human psyche...Its all about desensitization....Violent video games in the hands & minds of 13, 14 & 15 year old kids is a surefire cause of desensitization & moral disconnect in those young & impressionable brains. No offense, but you cant compare Madden Football with Grand Theft Auto where you get a big point bonus for running over multiple Uniformed Police Officers, and killing innocent people with your bare hands (& with guns & knives). Not talking about casually playing it once or twice...some kids LIVE on this stuff...Add in games like Medal of Honor and Call of Duty where you get weapons training.....You're kidding me, right?

Add to this an over-prescripition of drugs like Zoloft, Prozac, etc. causing a further disconnect.. There are few common threads in these mass shootings, but one that can't be overlooked is these shooters almost all were heavily medicated, had a history of playing violent video games, and were social outcasts. Another interesting common thread , observed with these shooters is the desire to hit "soft targets" i.e.. "gun-free zones" These guys dont want ANY confrontation....This trait is right out of the terrorist's playbook. Where do they hit? Churces, Mosques, buses, planes, schools? Thank God there was an armed guard at Columbine to take on the shooter with the homemade bomb...The guards actions negated the kid from deploying it....

Getting back on topic, gun control DOESNT WORK...We had a comprehensive "Assault Weapons Ban from 1994 to 2004, with a 10-year sunset clause wisely built in it. The liberals were screaming how America was soon to be a Utopia, free from gun crime...The "after action" report done in 2005 or 2006 showed NO REAL impact on violent crime. The only thing it did was affect LEGAL GUN OWNERS. Funny how Hollywood stars have all "joined hands" to fight for more gun control and "stop the gun culture of violence".....If you admire any of these Hollywood types, or take heed to any shred of what they ever preach, or think "hey, they're pretty cool..."please do me a favor and watch this...

[okcomputer 12]

Guess what GTA and COD are sold under the mature ratings title of the ESRB. So a 13 or 14 year old isn't allowed to buy it, yes like everything else it happens but for the most part parents must buy their kids the game.

You can also get weapons training by reading books and going on YouTube. Heck, moby dick is basically a whaling manual.

Back on topic.

In Austria in the 1930's they elected a man named Adolf who besides socializing healthcare and jobs required that all gun owners register their weapons and were known by the public and police.

I think we all know what started to happen next...

[antiquefirelt 994]

Guess what GTA and COD are sold under the mature ratings title of the ESRB. So a 13 or 14 year old isn't allowed to buy it, yes like everything else it happens but for the most part parents must buy their kids the game.

You can also get weapons training by reading books and going on YouTube. Heck, moby dick is basically a whaling manual.

Back on topic.

In Austria in the 1930's they elected a man named Adolf who besides socializing healthcare and jobs required that all gun owners register their weapons and were known by the public and police.

I think we all know what started to happen next...

The issue is little to do with "training" and nearly everythingto do with densensitization of feelings regarding the lives of other humans, especially during the most formative years of those minds. The fact that kids are allowed by anyone (we know there are tons of crappy parents out there) to play games (top of the market no less) that reward the player for killing or injuring innocent people is a true issue. Kids grow up with a greater acceptance of death outside their immediate family, as they see it everyday. Seeing innocent people die and the aftermath is so routine in our daily lives that I fear that most of us likley take it all in stride unless it somehow strikes a personal chord or is just so heinous (Newtown, Columbine, etc) that we cannot help but stop and reflect. But the other 14 times we'll hear about someone dying in a day we feel nothing. The more often the more heinous things are in our face, the more likley we're going to to acclimate to them as well. Like so many things in life, they get easier with each passing incidence, there's no reasont o think that feeelings regarding the death of those not close to us are any different.

[1911 34]

Right on, Antiquefirelt...... Google Dave Grossman's " On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs "- Makes you wonder what you're made of.....

By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."

Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

Edited January 2, 2013 by 1911
source copyright

[JM15 386]

Just bought his book on my new Ipad thanks for sharing!!

[GSBEng10 0]

A common aspect reocurring in these terrible incidents is the mental state of the prepetrators at the time of their crimes . A high number come across as being socially awkward and withdrawn with issues. So how do you stop the mentally ill from obtaining high powered weapons ...well the truth is you cannot Lanza was apparently intelligent very internet aware and so could have obtained guns even if his mother had twigged that he was a 'wrong un' and started to get some mental health treatment for her son.

There has been a history of mass killings in the US and the world prior to violent video games but at the same time a reduction in the number of people incarcerated for serious mental health issues society deeming it necessary and acceptable to have people treated in the community using modern drugs . This has not worked ....in the end over a couple of generations the threat will melt away guns in all their forms will cease to have the allure and attraction that they currently have for many folk . People will realise that for most the the threat of violentt crime is a myth and that as the crime rate falls it simply wont be necesscary to arm youself to the teeth with military grade weapons . I remember many year ago a retired Chief privately showing me his modest 9mm semi for personal protection normal ammo kept under lock and key ....he wanted no accidental home shootings on his property, forward 25 yrs and his son was keen to show off his high powered collection of assault rifles kept in a rack in his den his own young son only feet away being imprinted by all this weaponary . Guns will become uncool and lose their appeal the assocationion with them being considered extreme and excessive due to events such as the tragedy in Newton ....but not for many a long year in the meantime you just have to hope and pray that some one close to you is not caught up in one of these life changing incidents.... BFD summed up a number of points very well but what about Gun clubs and the like I'll bet they could point out a few people who really should not be going near a gun but do and already have them . When I lived in the country a local farmer had an arsenal of weapons he should not have been trusted with a pen knife let alone a rifle such was his ragged temper ( and yes he did get into trouble ) . Guns are a huge part of US society that any change will be slow and really will only happen when times and attidudes change.....its a cultural thing ...it has started fashions come and go but I would not underestimate the power of celerbrity , I sense that many people are reevaluating their asssocation with guns and are starting to see the down side to gun ownership ...

[antiquefirelt 994]

A common aspect reocurring in these terrible incidents is the mental state of the prepetrators at the time of their crimes . A high number come across as being socially awkward and withdrawn with issues. So how do you stop the mentally ill from obtaining high powered weapons ...well the truth is you cannot Lanza was apparently intelligent very internet aware and so could have obtained guns even if his mother had twigged that he was a 'wrong un' and started to get some mental health treatment for her son.

There has been a history of mass killings in the US and the world prior to violent video games but at the same time a reduction in the number of people incarcerated for serious mental health issues society deeming it necessary and acceptable to have people treated in the community using modern drugs . This has not worked ....in the end over a couple of generations the threat will melt away guns in all their forms will cease to have the allure and attraction that they currently have for many folk . People will realise that for most the the threat of violentt crime is a myth and that as the crime rate falls it simply wont be necesscary to arm youself to the teeth with military grade weapons . I remember many year ago a retired Chief privately showing me his modest 9mm semi for personal protection normal ammo kept under lock and key ....he wanted no accidental home shootings on his property, forward 25 yrs and his son was keen to show off his high powered collection of assault rifles kept in a rack in his den his own young son only feet away being imprinted by all this weaponary . Guns will become uncool and lose their appeal the assocationion with them being considered extreme and excessive due to events such as the tragedy in Newton ....but not for many a long year in the meantime you just have to hope and pray that some one close to you is not caught up in one of these life changing incidents.... BFD summed up a number of points very well but what about Gun clubs and the like I'll bet they could point out a few people who really should not be going near a gun but do and already have them . When I lived in the country a local farmer had an arsenal of weapons he should not have been trusted with a pen knife let alone a rifle such was his ragged temper ( and yes he did get into trouble ) . Guns are a huge part of US society that any change will be slow and really will only happen when times and attidudes change.....its a cultural thing ...it has started fashions come and go but I would not underestimate the power of celerbrity , I sense that many people are reevaluating their asssocation with guns and are starting to see the down side to gun ownership ...

I understand your sentiment and respect your feelings, but until those who seek to eliminate firearms or restrict certain type or magazines can speak with some knowledge on the subject, it's hard not to be frustrated. The Bushmaster rifle used in Newtown is by no means a high power firearm, this and the term "military grade" are merely buzz words used to illicit a fearful response. There is nothing more deadly about a military grade firearms (one built to mil-spec?) or the caliber common to these firearms. In fact most hunting rifles are far more powerful in terms of "knockdown power" and range. The anti-gun pro-ban media, politicians and celebrities have latched onto a "look" and have whipped it up into a frenzy of fear amongst those who do not understand firearms and/or ballistics. Once all the embellishments and grandstanding is stripped away, we may be able to have a rational discussion on making the US safer, which likely should include forms of tighter gun control along with many other things.

Edited January 2, 2013 by antiquefirelt

[GSBEng10 0]

Antique I think the issue is more about how things can change I accept you can have all the gun laws in the world but if some one wants to obtain a weapon they generally can regardles of legislation frankly I think its academic about how miltary a gun looks or is ....the gastly truth is that many of the victims were disgfigured by the rounds used and the media/ celerbrities may have latched onto a make but this is more about the long term outcome rather than the semantics regarding ballistics ....I dont think anyone is doubting the Bushmasters effectiveness and I detect that maybe this time the overall feeling on this topic is heading towards seriously looking at that issue rather than sweeping it under the carpet as per usual .

I think it would help if the NRA was a little more rounded and symapathetic to the situation rather than just stick rigidly and literally to their guns...... I wonder why no one at the gun club picked up on Lanza as it was commonly known that he had problems certainly not good for some one like that to be playing around with weapons to the extent that he did .

Fortunately in my case a neighbour called in the local farmer and his weapons were removed we all breathed a sigh of relief .... this was a good example of local control.... . where I am coming from is the side of public opinion once the majority see its time to change then it will... you can have all the legislation in the world and I am no fan of yet more codes and rules being costly to implement and falling mainly on the already law abiding - it will be the popular vote in the end that will bring about change ...this is way off at present but what is emerging is the association this in the end is what will bring about change for the next generation

[antiquefirelt 994]

Antique I think the issue is more about how things can change I accept you can have all the gun laws in the world but if some one wants to obtain a weapon they generally can regardles of legislation frankly I think its academic about how miltary a gun looks or is ....the gastly truth is that many of the victims were disgfigured by the rounds used and the media/ celerbrities may have latched onto a make but this is more about the long term outcome rather than the semantics regarding ballistics ....I dont think anyone is doubting the Bushmasters effectiveness and I detect that maybe this time the overall feeling on this topic is heading towards seriously looking at that issue rather than sweeping it under the carpet as per usual .

My point (and possibly what you're saying too) is that selecting type of firearms to ban is not really going to fix anything. Using adjectives that illicit and elevated response is basically grandstanding, the same people wouldn't get the same response if they said all semi-automatic firearms or all guns, so they pick away at it. The actual bills being sponsored by some are much further reaching than military looking firearms. One need not understand ballistics or firearms in general to work on solutions or even gun control measures, but if you are going to attack specific types you'd better have your facts straight. The Bushmaster's effectiveness over any other similar firearms would be indiscernible in a single event. Nearly the exact rifle is produced by hundreds of manufacturers to the same exacting specifications, the choice to buy a Bushmaster may be in the final retail cost, but certainly hasn't anything to do with effectiveness (maybe it's named in GTA?)

I think it would help if the NRA was a little more rounded and symapathetic to the situation rather than just stick rigidly and literally to their guns...... I wonder why no one at the gun club picked up on Lanza as it was commonly known that he had problems certainly not good for some one like that to be playing around with weapons to the extent that he did .

I cannot speak on behalf of the NRA in any fashion as I've never been a member, on purpose. I've never agreed with their stances regarding gun control. They've tried (and succeeded in many cases) to convince their membership that at some point if our guns are registered it will make it easy for the government (the one we elect) to send agents to take them away. This silly conspiracy theory is almost laughable and is detrimental as a whole as it casts a dim view of gun owners given their notoriety as the largest gun owner membership organization. The suggestion that all schools have armed guards is just more knee jerk reaction to a knee jerk reaction. I thought more of them in the few days after Newtown that they kept quiet than ever before, only to be hit with the reality stick when they came up with that suggestion.

I have to say, the video above is spot on with regard to our culture of violence. Time will tell if any of those celebrities have any spine and will turn down work based on the amount of gratuitous violence in the script or if they'll continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths. My guess is Jamie Foxx will be in the next sequel of the Expendables.

[GSBEng10 0]

Antique It goes with the territory that certain folk get on the media band wagon and attach themselves to the topic ....a very good point about how many celebrities will now turn down violent film work ??....but again I feel this all comes from the general outpouring of grief over Newton and its totally right that there should be an outcry it was truly horrific what occured and people are rightly asking themselves how can we stop this from happening again.....which for my money comes back to how do you seperate the mentally ill from obtaining guns in the first place as the vast majority of these mass murder crimes are committed by people with mental health issues ....that is one massive subject that I am not qualified to offer much insight on.Suffice to say that usually any legislation falls on the law abiding and normally costs them money as well ....you can envisage laws that require psychological testing for certain weapons with annual compliance thrown in for good measure but how to test those that might have access to these weapons but are not registered ...perhaps the money raised from such measures could go towards mental health treatment ...but would it ? hard pressed jurisdictions might be tempted to dip into this new pot of funding for other much needed projects .Perhaps in the end local control will be the most effective NYC has witnessed a significant drop in gun related crime - maybe now other authorities will be tempted to go down this route

Like you I was aghast at the 'arms race suggestion' for protecting schools where would it end ? guards for shopping areas - bus stops - gas stations - anywhere that large numbers of people are gathered together ..... you would be moving the problem down the line better to look at the root causes of these incidents and build from there ....I understand that case studies have shown that certain types of individual have been affected by violent video games and films ....but the internet is stuffed full of these types of violent clips I really dont know how you could stop a determined individual from exposing themselves to these images....although mass shootings occured way before the advent of violent video games and the internet

[IzzyEng4 427]

You all need to read this. This is why you don't publish certain things!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/04/law-enforcement-latest-critics-on-public-display-gun-owner-data-officers/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/04/ex-burglars-say-newspapers-gun-map-wouldve-made-job-easier-safer/

[grumpyff 1,159]

.Perhaps in the end local control will be the most effective NYC has witnessed a significant drop in gun related crime - maybe now other authorities will be tempted to go down this route.

Not sure where you have gotten your numbers from, but I have seen more guns, and heard more shots fired in the last 4 years than in the first 10 years I had on the job(February will be 14 and half year with the NYPD). Prime example is Plaxico Buress shooting himself in a club. Prior to Bloomberg personally getting involved, almost no one got 2 years in jail. One gun collar I was took part in the the court motions lasted nearly 2 and half years, and in the end a plea was give for 8 months. After 5 months the defendant was out on the street. Also look at Washington DC, their guns laws were so restrictive the Supreme Court found them to be unconstitutional has/had some of the highest crime and murder rates in the country.