Fire Apparatus at Christmas

[Bnechis 3,961]

In the past few days I have seen at least a dozen pictures (on multiple sites) of different depts. in the area driving around town with Santa in the hose bed or in the bucket of a tower ladder (in one case, he just missed hitting a traffic light).

Most depts do not allow members to ride in these locations because of the potential for death or serious injury. How can we ignore our own policies and allow this?

And if the answer is to please the children.........consider how happy they would be if you run over santa.

Can anyone justify this?

[x4093k 654]

Good points Barry.

You are reffering to Santa almost hitting the traffic light in a rear mount, correct?

[Bnechis 3,961]

You are reffering to Santa almost hitting the traffic light in a rear mount, correct?

Was a midmount tower, Santa was in the bucket. If he had hit, the driver never would have known

[GBFD111 73]

Does anyone have the actual picture of this?

I believe that one should just use common sense. How hard is it to make sure your head is not going to hit the traffic light? I believe that it is nice PR for the community and gets everyone into the holiday spirit. Again, just do it safely.

[FIRECHIEF63 55]

This is not a issue in most cases, but as usual one bad apple could spoil the bunch. I think that in the case Santa riding on the fire truck is not the same as why the policies are in effect, they are there to warn against riding these outside positions while doing higher speeds to calls. Which one might ask, why we make a policy to prevent accidents with people riding outside positions instead of teaching how to drive safely instead.

The case with the Santa who almost had his taken off, they was stupidity on the part of the rider not watching or his spotter watching his travel path.

Leave this issue along, it is nothing to do with violations of fire department policies on riding to calls on the outside of the apparatus.

[jack10562 414]

Seeing Santa riding on a fire truck is a age old tradition in many areas, that kids of all ages can enjoy experiencing this time of year!

I will agree that it does have it's dangers, but by exercising some common sense, injuries to participants can be avoided.

The apparatus driver has a good amount of responsibility over avoiding certain potential "obstacles" to Santa riding on top. For example If there were low hanging tree branches (s)he should slow down and drift away from the branches, conditions permitting, Or in the case of a low traffic signal, instead of passing directly right under it, a minor course correction to the left or right can give sufficient overhead clearance.

Communication between the driver and riders by an obstacle spotter is extremely important.

It's simply a matter of situational awareness.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Seeing Santa riding on a fire truck is a age old tradition in many areas, that kids of all ages can enjoy experiencing this time of year!

I will agree that it does have it's dangers, but by exercising some common sense, injuries to participants can be avoided.

The apparatus driver has a good amount of responsibility over avoiding certain potential "obstacles" to Santa riding on top. For example If there were low hanging tree branches (s)he should slow down and drift away from the branches, conditions permitting, Or in the case of a low traffic signal, instead of passing directly right under it, a minor course correction to the left or right can give sufficient overhead clearance.

Communication between the driver and riders by an obstacle spotter is extremely important.

It's simply a matter of situational awareness.

Could not agree with this statement more. In our town, a spare pumper truck is used for Santa Claus to ride on top of the hose bed on. There are a least 5 people riding along side Santa (with the driver and captain riding up front). In addition, there is a Chief Car riding ahead of the truck and an Assistant Chief's car riding behind. Add to that all 3 vehicles have their sirens blasting as they ride thru neighborhoods, with "Santa's Helpers" throwing out candy to the kids who waiting along side the curbs. Is it 100% safe? No, but according to local officials, for the past 80 years that they have been doing this in our town, there hasn't been a single incident. And yes, the kids love it, year after year.

Taking the proper precautions to make sure that safety is looked at, first and foremost, makes this aged old tradition wonderful.

Letting Politics impact this, will be just like cities, towns and villages now have with people preventing their communities from putting up Religious Symbols, such as Christmas Trees and Menorahs, are just wrong.

Just my 2 cents

[antiquefirelt 994]

Really, is Santa big enough to justify violation of traffic laws? Regardless of policies originally ensuring members were not travelling outside the apparatus on runs, is there any state that does not have mandatory seatbelt laws? Let Santa ride in a sleigh and if you just can't live without the PR, escort his parade.

[firecapt32 282]

and if for some reason the driver had to hit the breaks?? santa flys off and over the cab?? who want to write that report/ kids running after the trucks chasing candy kanes and nothing can go wrong?? i dont think so chiefs car fornt and back might help but cant be 100% . sirens blasting??

believe me i dont want to be a scrooge but put santa in the chiefs car not on top of a first due appratus.

[JM15 386]

I can't believe some of you are defending this practice on here.. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that anyone riding on the outside of apparatus could get hurt.. Will the red suit protect him from the road rash? maybe the tires going over his body? Would you want to be the officer in charge after you let Santa die in front of the kids and now you have to go explain it to his wife and kids?

Why not put Santa in the officers seat and have him wave out the window.. eliminate the hazard completly. This is kind of a childish thing to be arguing about on here act like adults, it could save someones life. I know for a fact that this is an illegal practice and could result in fines and violations to your department.

80 years with out an accident huh? It just takes one second for someone to lose their life!!

Whats that saying I am thinking of... 100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress

[Bnechis 3,961]

I believe that one should just use common sense. How hard is it to make sure your head is not going to hit the traffic light? I believe that it is nice PR for the community and gets everyone into the holiday spirit. Again, just do it safely.

My common sense says we have a policy that says no one (does not say except santa) shall ride in a non seatbelted location.

If you are waving to the crowd behind you and are not looking forward it was suprisingly close.

Nice PR........ABC World News: "Santa Killed while riding on top of Mildew Hose company fire truck."

Holiday Spirit: "sorry Mrs. Smith, your husband who plays Santa every year is in the ER, they are trying to remove a traffic light from his head."

My point was, there is no way to do it safely.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I think that in the case Santa riding on the fire truck is not the same as why the policies are in effect, they are there to warn against riding these outside positions while doing higher speeds to calls. Which one might ask, why we make a policy to prevent accidents with people riding outside positions instead of teaching how to drive safely instead.

The case with the Santa who almost had his taken off, they was stupidity on the part of the rider not watching or his spotter watching his travel path.

Leave this issue along, it is nothing to do with violations of fire department policies on riding to calls on the outside of the apparatus.

Does your policy say when doing higher speed calls? We require seatbelts when driving back, doing inspections or going to the store, etc.

Are you saying you do not teach your drivers how to drive safely?

We do teach driver safety, but that does not always take into account the other driver doing something stupid.

[GBFD111 73]

This is not a issue in most cases, but as usual one bad apple could spoil the bunch. I think that in the case Santa riding on the fire truck is not the same as why the policies are in effect, they are there to warn against riding these outside positions while doing higher speeds to calls. Which one might ask, why we make a policy to prevent accidents with people riding outside positions instead of teaching how to drive safely instead.

The case with the Santa who almost had his taken off, they was stupidity on the part of the rider not watching or his spotter watching his travel path.

Leave this issue along, it is nothing to do with violations of fire department policies on riding to calls on the outside of the apparatus.

Couldn't have said it any better Chief.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Seeing Santa riding on a fire truck is a age old tradition in many areas, that kids of all ages can enjoy experiencing this time of year!

I will agree that it does have it's dangers, but by exercising some common sense, injuries to participants can be avoided.

The apparatus driver has a good amount of responsibility over avoiding certain potential "obstacles" to Santa riding on top. For example If there were low hanging tree branches (s)he should slow down and drift away from the branches, conditions permitting, Or in the case of a low traffic signal, instead of passing directly right under it, a minor course correction to the left or right can give sufficient overhead clearance.

Communication between the driver and riders by an obstacle spotter is extremely important.

It's simply a matter of situational awareness.

There are lots of age old traditions that we no longer do because we realize we should no longer be doing them.

Again we are back to "common sense"........does that not mean we should not do it?

You are correct, its the drivers responsability. We teach our drivers that its there responsability (legally and morally) to not drive until all riders are buckled up.

There is a Fire Service Attorny out of Texas who specializes in emergency vehicle accidents (he works nationally and will represent either side, based on who go to him 1st). I have heard him speak a couple of times and he talks about how he makes a lot of money from the drivers, officers and departments who do not follow national standards. He says if he is against you he will question you as to why you did not follow your dept policies, national standards and state laws and when an award comes in against you he gets all your stuff.

Lack of responsability = liability.

[SteveOFD 176]

Rules are meant to keep us (you & me) safe. If "Santa" is one of "us" and he gets injured during this stunt we all suffer the consequences, and this will be the end of this "tradition" for that Dept. Does it really take a tragedy to get us to change?

I have seen local tragedies that have not effected change in FD's in their surrounding area. What a shame we cannot learn from our mistakes.

I have heard this saying and paraphrase "Firefighters are some of the most innovative and dumbest people in the world. They can do almost anything with almost nothing, yet they are too dumb to invent new ways to injure or kill themselves. We keep injuring and killing ourselves the same way Firefighters have done in the past."

We MUST learn from ours, and others, tragedies.

[Remember585 815]

Our department did a Santa Run for many years and for whatever reason(s) it stopped at some point. We brought it back in 2010 and it has been getting a solid, positive feedback from the residents we serve (not to mention we get a solid showing from our own members).

Since I have basically been in charge of it all three years, everyone has been told that Santa either sits in a normal seat or gets out and walks off some of the holiday weight he retains. I know some people don't like it, but hey, I'm not letting someone get hurt on my watch. I know some of my own people would like to see Santa sitting on the roof of the cab or on the hosebed, but we know better and we don't do it. It's that simple.

Some traditions are worth hanging on to, they just need to keep up with the times.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Our department did a Santa Run for many years and for whatever reason(s) it stopped at some point. We brought it back in 2010 and it has been getting a solid, positive feedback from the residents we serve (not to mention we get a solid showing from our own members).

Since I have basically been in charge of it all three years, everyone has been told that Santa either sits in a normal seat or gets out and walks off some of the holiday weight he retains. I know some people don't like it, but hey, I'm not letting someone get hurt on my watch. I know some of my own people would like to see Santa sitting on the roof of the cab or on the hosebed, but we know better and we don't do it. It's that simple.

Some traditions are worth hanging on to, they just need to keep up with the times.

I would like too add a few more likes to this!!!

As the Chief of Department, you are setting the proper example and its called LEADERSHIP....Well Done.

Responsability was previously mentioned and the chiefs is safety of the members and the public, but he also has a general responsability to the community and that is the continuation of the Fire Departement. If we kill Santa, the FD may not survive the legal and financial loss. The community might not be able to accept the additional costs to pay out millions in claims or the increase in insurance.

Well done Chief. Merry Christmas

[AFS1970 504]

Nothing we do is 100% safe but then again neiother is riding on a bent and broken scap of metal that is probably less that 2 square feet on the side of a garbage truck, with no harness while tearing up the road with no lights, sirens or right of way, yet that workplace safety issue is always ignored.

Now I would wonder what safety precautions are taken during some of these Santa runs, only because I know from having to set up an antique for kids rides at a fair that adding and documenting the safety precautions were the big thing in the mind of our insurance carrier. So is Santa wearing a harness with a fall arrest system? Are his spotters? With all those sirens how are the driver & spotter communicating?

I have never been a part of a Santa run like this, but would hate to see the tradition go. However it would be nice to see what commonly used safety precautions we could enhance this, just so that we do not have to run over Santa in front of a bunch of kids.

[Ging599 13]

There was recently a similar thread to this about unsafe riding for parades which was promptly taken down. I am surprised this one has lasted.

Santa rides inside with the crew or walks.

[JM15 386]

There was recently a similar thread to this about unsafe riding for parades which was promptly taken down. I am surprised this one has lasted.

I was thinking the same thing....

[bcfireman 0]

well lets look at parades and how many people ride on Floats. I think that the fire trucks arent running code 3 at mach 3 with santa on the rig. and hope he is wearing a safety belt of some type. I the dept i am with Santa has rode the truck in the christmas parade.