Chief's Vehicle Out Of State Shopping

[rayrider 94]

Today, I happened to see a westchester county fd chiefs vehicle parked at a mall in Connecticut. Not naming the dept. Wouldn't it serve the town better if it was left in its district with someone else taking over command rather then 30 minutes away from its district? Running errands in nearby towns seems somewhat justifiable but 30 minutes out of state seems somewhat excessive to me. Unless of course it was conducting dept business rather than Christmas shopping. And trust me they were shopping. Lol. Any thoughts?

[jack10562 414]

Maybe he had some business to tend to with a Dept. nearby, and ran in to do some shopping on the way home.

We've beaten this horse to death in the past a number of times, already. I honestly don't believe we'll cover any new ground here.

[FDVA356 23]

It's abuse and a waste of tax payer $$$. Districts/Depts. need better accountability and with that restrictions. It's issued for business and this shouldn't be mistaken with personal business.

[fac911 33]

Who care? People should just mind there business if it does not concern you.

[DaRock98 76]

While I agree this topic has been beat to death on this site I do believe departments need to have a strict set of rules and regulations about this. I will not take my car anywhere I can not respond from in a short amount of time. I do agree that having a district owned vehicle 30-40 mins out of your first due area is abuse of the system and needs to be addressed by the powers to be. It just doesn't look right to the public and especially to the taxpayers during these hard economic times. Just my 2 cents.

[nycmedic 65]

Who care? People should just mind there business if it does not concern you.

Who care? People should just mind there business if it does not concern you.

When your taxes are over $12,000 a year you care. This is waste and abuse of tax payer money. The dept vehicle should not be used for personal business

[mustang22_2002 21]

They should also not have car seats in them !!!

[TRUCK6018 50]

Those that are concerned about this beat to death issue, write the department or district that owns the vehicle. Ranting about it on this site is not going to solve anything.

This issue comes up on this site every so often and gets locked. Time goes by and it comes up again.

Edited December 22, 2012 by TRUCK6018

[helicopper 1,050]

As was already noted by Jack, there are many other threads on this topic (the search feature will lead you to them). If, after reviewing the prior exhaustive (and exhausting) discussions, you have something new and productive to add, then return and post it.

If this thread just becomes a repeat of the prior discussions and emotional tirades on both sides of the issue, the thread will be closed.

[ex-commish 490]

When your taxes are over $12,000 a year you care. This is waste and abuse of tax payer money. The dept vehicle should not be used for personal business

My taxes are quickly approaching $12,000 per year with $525.00 of it being fire district tax the majority being school tax. And for the record I do not advocate taking fire department vehicles out of state for non-fire department use.

[va360 7]

It's just not chiefs vehicle's. It should be any government vehichle's. I pass a Greenburgh DPW vehicle every am coming from orange county

Edited December 22, 2012 by va360

[INIT915 1,119]

It's just not chiefs vehicle's. It should be any government vehichle's. I pass a Greenburgh DPW vehicle every am coming from orange county

If it's every morning, it's probably a take-home vehicle for someone subject to recall. That's different from going shopping at a mall in another State.

[wedgeclose 59]

Most of the "chiefs" in Westchester are VOLUNTEERS are you saying that these men and women should stay in their district or vicininty 24/7 365? They have one or two assistants who I am sure are made aware of the fact that the chief and his vehicle will be out of district for a specific amount of time. The proximity of highways between CT. and Westchester are such that just about any chief can respond from CT. to a Westchester district in 20 min or less in emergency mode. This was not a "commuter" issue..which I don't agree with...but one of a little R and R. We all see everyday "commuters" on the highways driving all kinds of "official" vehicles back and forth to work and we all know MOST OF THEM are abusing the system...you should be attacking them..not the VOLUNTEERS that give up so much of their day to day lives to protect the communities so the real 'COMMUTERS" have a house to come home to. amen

[fire 1 asst chief 49]

Well said wedgeclose couldn't agree more.

[x129K 1,393]

Dont play the volunteer card please....NO reason these Chiefs could not take their own POV's shopping...

[Remember585 815]

Would you look past this if that Chief's vehicle was delivering donations to Newtown? What if he was buying gifts to bring to a Children's Hospital here in Westchester? This is such immature, cry baby bullshit.

For the record, I don't agree with the abuse of a take home car, but since nobody knows the facts here - let's stop speculating.

FACT: Some municipalities issue take-home vehicles for all kinds of staff members, including PD, FD, DPW and management folks.

FACT: Many of these municipalities don't have rules or regulations concerning the uses of these vehicles, and frankly don't even care.

FACT: A Westchester Fire Chief in Connecticut may be closer from point A in Westchester to point B in Connecticut then if he went to another location within Westchester County.

FACT: I see police officers, fire chiefs/commissioners, EMS officers, DPW bosses and governement officials using their take home cars for all kinds of things.

FACT: I never lose sleep over any of this. Neither should any of us. The same guys who are union firefighters that will come here asking all of us to "put aside our volunteer and paid BS" to help them keep their jobs also commonly take jabs at volunteers for dumb s*** like this. You can't play it one way all the time then flip it around and not expect people to call you out on it. Does it bother anyone else that WE are all our own worst enemies?!

Does it bother anyone else that Westchester County is literally a laughingstock to fire departments (paid and volunteer) outside of this area because of our never-ending bickering and dick-measuring contests?

Ugh!

Note: edited for grammar and layout improvement.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Remember585

[foreman1923 22]

Does it really bother you that much? The chief earned his way up the ranks to get that truck, if the department has no by laws set in place justifying how far away he can go with it then he isn't wrong. It is what it is

[snkbitn 2]

When I read this the only thing that I keep hearing is the "hypothetical" instead of going over it again and again. Why aren't we asking the "real" department ? As there have been many different answers as to why, we really don't know. For the people that are asking who cares? Well.. every single one of us should care.. Budgets are in the RED, the grant money is drying up. People are loosing there jobs !!!!! Chief's should be leading the example period. I will agree that each an every case if different but if you start bringing these items up to the "public" I am pretty sure they would not be too happy when they find out the Fire Dept funds are being used to go "shopping" especially in another state.

**These comments are mine and do not represent or reflect on any affiliations I may have.**

[signal30 22]

Yea, they're always on official business... quite frankly, I get to watch thousands spent on gold leaf for trucks...then I go to work... where I'm told "there's no money" for fixing damn near anything on the trucks, and forget hiring another guy... There is more of an issue here than just bringing the command vehicle wherever you go because you're technically in service.

True, does sound like a little childish to bring it up here...but I do get what he's getting at. I'm quite tired of seeing the constant struggle for so many departments, then watching other departments spend the money on bullshit because if you don't spend it, you lose it...so that's where the goldleaf for the command vehicle goes...or maybe an extra lightbar...

just because a set of by-laws doesn't mention it...doesn't exclude it from ethical behavior. Our trusty bylaws haven't exactly been known to be perfect by any means...

For the record, I'm not against chief cars... I'm in favor...they have a purpose, but they should only be used for that purpose and that purpose only... perhaps state contract should only allow for non-luxury cars...perhaps military grade...because some of us know how the military thought of comfort when it came to vehicles...

We are, indeed, our own worst enemies...

[helicopper 1,050]

Does it really bother you that much? The chief earned his way up the ranks to get that truck, if the department has no by laws set in place justifying how far away he can go with it then he isn't wrong. It is what it is

Hopefully he (or she) "earned their way up the ranks" to get more than a truck!

If the truck is the motivation we are all well and thoroughly screwed!

[IzzyEng4 427]

Here's the deal...... If you are that upset about a chief's or any other department vehicle being someplace where you think it shouldn't be, then go to that commission meeting and make a formal complaint.

Complaining about "XXX" department's truck was located "here" is not going to solve anything. You want answers go an ask the department, board of commissioners or the chief him / her self why the truck is there instead of here.

This has been talked about so many times once again here it's beating a dead horse.

[foreman1923 22]

Just another thing and I'm done with this thread. Is the chiefs car owned by a municipality or an incorporated department, if its owned by a municipality then yes lodge a complaint with the commissioners of said district and let them take care of it. If its an incorporated department contracted out to provide a service then the town really has no say in the day to day operation of that vehicle

[x129K 1,393]

Just another thing and I'm done with this thread. Is the chiefs car owned by a municipality or an incorporated department, if its owned by a municipality then yes lodge a complaint with the commissioners of said district and let them take care of it. If its an incorporated department contracted out to provide a service then the town really has no say in the day to day operation of that vehicle

Damn...now THAT is a pretty valid point...

[wedgeclose 59]

Okay x129k and all you naysayers about "volunteers" what would your taxes be like if we had all "professional" firefighters, EMT's and Medics? Do you really think we would be better off? I don't think so..we have many towns and villages who don't need 20 or 30 "professionals" to staff apparatus that responds 6 times a week. Just a couple of departments come to mind and I in no way am degrading any of them...they are local to me....Pocantico Hills, Archville, Buchanon, Chappaqua, Somers just to name a few. They in fact may have one or two professionals because in the event of a working fire they may not have enough volunteers available during the day to fight a fire. I have the utmost respect for professional firefighters and EMS personell but I don't think we can afford the luxury of having a fully paid Emergency Services Department in every town and village. There is far more wasteful spending by local government than a few hundred dollars of gold leaf or a couple of gallons of gas in a chiefs car.

[x129K 1,393]

I would pay twice what we pay now per year for a career firefighter/paramedic staffed department, and triple that to add in a uniformed policeman in each public school in my township. Happily.

I asked not to play the vollie card because we preach until we are blue in the face that we are no different than a career fireman,,(not true BTW), then we ask for special perks because we are "volunteer"....sorry - you cant have your cake, and eat it too..

[Remember585 815]

I don't believe that anything we signed on to do should be based on the perks we feel we are entitled to. The "I'm volunteering my time and should be rewarded" attitude is destroying volunteer FD and EMS organizations. Doing it because you want to do it and you like doing it for the right reasons should be the only reason you do it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am sure the majority in my shoes would echo this sentiment. I became Chief of my department because I wanted to opportunity to help my department better itself. I am given a car to help me do my "job" which to me means responding to calls, meetings, training, equipment pickup/delivery and other department business. When I know I will be out of town for an extended period of time (24+ hours) I always leave the car with someone else or keep it in town so it is available if needed. If we know there's a weather event happening or something else is expected that we planned for, I will even leave my car with someone during the 12 hours I am at work. The way I look at it is that the car is my department's - not mine.

The sooner all of us realize that what we do is for our organization and not for ourselves, the sooner we can make progress.

/Rant

[DDixie 12]

Okay x129k and all you naysayers about "volunteers" what would your taxes be like if we had all "professional" firefighters, EMT's and Medics? Do you really think we would be better off? I don't think so..we have many towns and villages who don't need 20 or 30 "professionals" to staff apparatus that responds 6 times a week. Just a couple of departments come to mind and I in no way am degrading any of them...they are local to me....Pocantico Hills, Archville, Buchanon, Chappaqua, Somers just to name a few. They in fact may have one or two professionals because in the event of a working fire they may not have enough volunteers available during the day to fight a fire. I have the utmost respect for professional firefighters and EMS personell but I don't think we can afford the luxury of having a fully paid Emergency Services Department in every town and village. There is far more wasteful spending by local government than a few hundred dollars of gold leaf or a couple of gallons of gas in a chiefs car.

somers does a heck more than "6" calls a week, and that's not just EMS. They have a paid EMS crew now 24/7 for the first ambulance. and seriously, look at the fire district taxes in some of those departments. Those are scary numbers for volunteer agencies. It can't cost all that money every year for electricity, building & apparatus maintenance, as well as insurance. The real question is: Why doesn't Westchester County have a career Fire/EMS department and consolidate the infrastructure and apparatus of existing volunteer departments, taking into account the their geographical locations?

[Danger 160]

There is far more wasteful spending by local government than a few hundred dollars of gold leaf

I'm just glad someone admitted gold leaf is a waste of money and for that we thank you.

[wedgeclose 59]

Well I'm not trying to start a war with anyone...I didn't mean to offend anyone. It is my opinion that's it. I can't afford anymore taxes and I am blessed that I reside in Ossining where I am protected by a 100% Volunteer fire department that responds almost immediately when called 24/7. I'm also blessed that we have such a great EMS provider in Ossining VAC who still try to respond with volunteers. The sheer volumn of calls cannot be covered by all volunteers anymore but we have a great organization and dedicated people. I apologize to anyone from Somers who may be offended. I would support a COUNTY fire department to be able to respond from a central location or two to supplement those villages and towns who don't have enough volunteers to protect their districts as long as those districts are willing to foot the bill. Consolidation may be an answer. But getting back to the original thread...Nobody said the chiefs car was a perk....but I still can't understand why all of you are so concerned with the issue of a chief being 20 minutes away from his district using it to go to a mall. As to the question of "he should have left the car in the district" okay great..now suppose he comes upon an accident or fire...do you want him to just DRIVE BY...or take action! He is a professional who could save a life with what is carried in his car.

[nycmedic 65]

I understand the reasoning behind them using it " in town". But I do not see amy justification of them bringing the vehicle out of town or 20 minutes out of their district, unless they are on official business. In my opion doing so is abusing the privilege.