Difference Between "Working Fire" and "Structure Fire"

[x635 4,066]

As far as I know, the terms "Working Fire" and "Structure Fire" are interchangeable.

I know this is a dumb topic for me to post, but is there any difference, or once was a difference?

[antiquefirelt 994]

Just like so much else in this business it depends on how they're used in a given area. The term "Structure Fire" is often just a dispatch description, though a few years back there was a movement to make this a benchmark type term denoting the fire had actually begun to attack the structural elements of the building. This didn't seem to take off in many places, but I suspect there are some who utilize it this way? "Working Fire" is often a alarm level between how a building fire is dispatched and the next full alarm level, often bringing a reduced number of units. For example a building fire in our area is most often dispatched as a first alarm assignment getting what the FD places on their first alarm list. A second alarm may bring another 3 engines and 2 truck, but often the fire does not require 5 more companies, thus a "Working Fire" declaration may bring just 1 and 1. Like I started with, these examples may vary greatly from locality to locality, standardization in the US fire service is nearly nonexistent.

[NJMedic 96]

I my area a "working fire" would indicate just that, didn't matter if it was a car, house, strip mall, dumspter (don't laugh, a 40 cubic yard dumpster was one of the hardest fires I ever fought), high rise. To me a sructure fire would mean a working fire in a my area would typically mean a 2.5 story wood frame structure. Any thing other then a 2.5 wfd would usually be get a description added...."a working fire on the 24 story of a concreate multi family dwelling". There really is no standard radio standard around here but people usually get the point across.

[mfc2257 464]

I think the term "working fire" has been overused as of late.... A structure fire is a generalized even to describe a fire at a structure... it could be oven, room and contents, chimney, OR working.... A working fire is one that is best described as a fire that is progressing beyond the point of ignition to involve other parts of the structure, rooms, etc....

One room off is not a working fire... a kitchen fire with extention to the floor above is a working fire.... JMHO

[PFDRes47cue 653]

I my area a "working fire" would indicate just that, didn't matter if it was a car, house, strip mall, dumspter (don't laugh, a 40 cubic yard dumpster was one of the hardest fires I ever fought), high rise. To me a sructure fire would mean a working fire in a my area would typically mean a 2.5 story wood frame structure. Any thing other then a 2.5 wfd would usually be get a description added...."a working fire on the 24 story of a concreate multi family dwelling". There really is no standard radio standard around here but people usually get the point across.

I call the added description a "size-up." There should be a size up for any fire...even the 2.5 story wood frame ones.

[LTFIREPRG 154]

The term "Structure Fire" is used to describe the type of incident/call units are responded to, i.e. report of a structure fire, dumpster fire, outside rubbish fire, vehicle fire etc...

The term "Working Fire" is used to describe a fire that is in the process of being suppressed. Typically reserved for a structure fire or an outside fire with a considerable fire/fuel load that will require additional assets/resources to mitigate.

[NJMedic 96]

I call the added description a "size-up." There should be a size up for any fire...even the 2.5 story wood frame ones.

I would call that a "winshield size up" I would usually give a 360 degree size up even on EMS responses because while the dispatcher might not care, others listening might.

[sfrd18 360]

In my neck of the woods, a Working Fire is usually a declaration or an alarm assignment upgrade called/transmitted by an incident commander upon seeing visible fire or smoke coming from a structure(or something else like a vehicle fire in some departments), or if a company/unit finds active fire in a room, hallway, etc. Again, if a Working Fire is called, depending on the department, more resources may or may not be dispatched in, such as R.I.T./F.A.S.T. In my book, an unofficial Working Fire in a structure should be at least a room and contents fire or greater, with at least one hose line stretched and operating. Usually, if companies are opening up, several lines are stretched and operating, more units are dispatched or specially-called to the scene, progress reports are given, and pretty much all companies o/s are going to work, it's safe to say that your talking about a Working Fire, and not just a structure fire.

A structure fire is what is usually reported on the initial dispatch, and must be upgraded to the level of a Working Fire. A structure fire can describe a report or a confirmation of a fire in or outside a building. A structure fire may have all the characteristics or a Working Fire, but the term Working Fire may not be used to describe it, depending on the department and what terms they use. For example, an All Hands Fire in Philadelphia means the same as a Working Fire in New York, only the terms used are different. Or, if the initial assignment of companies can or have contained the fire with the resources they have, additional resources dispatched on a Working Fire are not necessarily needed, thus, one is never sounded by an incident commander. That's when you have a Structure Fire, but not a Working Fire.

As to whether or not one should post an incident topic as a Working Fire or as a Structure Fire should depend on certain things. If a department uses the term Structure Fire instead of a Working Fire, or if a Working Fire/10-75 is never called/transmitted over the air, or if the fire's relatively minor with a quick knock down, it could be titled a Structure Fire. A can job or a line stretched but not charged/used isn't criteria for a Working Fire. A good rule of thumb to remember is that a topic should really be called a Working Fire if the term itself or 10-75, 10-29, etc. is said aloud over the air by a company/incident commander.

[wraftery 1,275]

Just like so much else in this business it depends on how they're used in a given area. The term "Structure Fire" is often just a dispatch description, though a few years back there was a movement to make this a benchmark type term denoting the fire had actually begun to attack the structural elements of the building. This didn't seem to take off in many places, but I suspect there are some who utilize it this way? "Working Fire" is often a alarm level between how a building fire is dispatched and the next full alarm level, often bringing a reduced number of units. For example a building fire in our area is most often dispatched as a first alarm assignment getting what the FD places on their first alarm list. A second alarm may bring another 3 engines and 2 truck, but often the fire does not require 5 more companies, thus a "Working Fire" declaration may bring just 1 and 1. Like I started with, these examples may vary greatly from locality to locality, standardization in the US fire service is nearly nonexistent.

Years ago, NFIRS defined a structure fire as a fire that actually did damage to the structure. There were two categories in the Type of Fire sectionof the incident report that addressed this. One was Structure fire as I just defined, the other was Fire in a structure that did not cause damage to the structure. I thought that was a pretty good criteria and I don't know why it changed. It might be that the fire service wanted to say they had a lot of structure fires and one way to do that it to widen the category to include things like "Food on the stove/out on arrival."

far as Working fire goes, I always considered a worker as a fire that required the FULL use of at least one 1 3/4 line. That's not pulling it and giving a squirt to a trashcan. It's when you need the full 100gpm. So a car fire is not a worker. Three cars in a shopping center lot is. A garbage can fire in a private dwelling is not a worker. The same trash can in a nursing home may. A "using all companies" is not necessarily a worker either. Here in the Virginia Beach area, they use the term "Working incident" for a non-fire incident that has all companies committed.

So, I would say that a working fire is like pornography...it's sometimes hard to define, but after a little experience , you'll know it when you see it.

[foreman1923 22]

Have to agree with some of the posts on here a "structure fire" is a dispatch term while "working fire" can be used in many diff scenarios to describe a fire that is growing in intensity and size.

[FF1 172]

Here in Westchester county, 60 control dispatches up to a "Structure Fire". When in scene, a chief will transmitt a 10-75 or working fire to 60 which will strike our 1st alarm assignment (extra engine, extra ladder, FAST, and ambulance to the scene and our standby units in our quarters)

[IzzyEng4 427]

The definition of a "Working Fire" should be any actively burning object that is or has potential to cause serious damage. "Active Fire" would also fit this.

"Structure Fire" is more of a descriptive term of what is / may be involved upon the receipt of a call to dispatch, ect.

[TimesUp 148]

"Working structure fire" where does this fit in?

[lad12derff 283]

Structure fire: any fire within or attatched to a structure.

Working fire : any fire not within or attatched to a structure

Is it harder than that?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Structure fire: any fire within or attatched to a structure.

Working fire : any fire not within or attatched to a structure

Is it harder than that?

Thats not our policy (working fire)......aka 10-75

[firecapt32 282]

ok heres my take on the subject--and please do not take it as gospel--"Structure fire" is defined by NYS NIFERS. any fire in/on or under s structure.

"Working fire" --here comes that age and wisdome factor---comes from when the Officer would communicate with either the members of the crew or base department that the members were in fact "going to work"

there are lots of fire house/department jargon out there that has been a carryover form many years ago. We are steep in tridiation.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL AND TO ALL A SAFE HOILDAY

[SageVigiles 1,194]

For us in West Haven, a "working fire" or "Signal 73" is basically a statement of what level of alarm the assignment is. I've heard a 73-Brush transmitted before because the full assignment was needed for manpower and apparatus.

Typically the 1st arriving officer will transmit the 73 or working fire (we're currently experimenting with language before our switch to plain English on the radio) but he will still specify the type of structure as part of his sizeup.

Dispatch will usually put it out as a "structure fire" or the more old fashioned "alarm of fire" when they give the info on that particular box, they don't ever call it a "working fire" unless they're repeating the sizeup.

[v85 212]

I always thought it was

Structure Fire: dispatch description

Working Fire/Working Structure Fire: Confirmed fire that would take some work (ie, more than a can and charged line) to put out

[fd2119 3]

Dowm here in Maryland, we can be dispatched to a reported building/structure/whatever fire, and units will call it a working fire if everyone's going to work. Just as our communications center won't call a person who is unresponsive and not breathing a cardiac arrest, they won't call a reported incident a working fire; that's not to say that they can't pass on information from people on the scene ("multiple callers reporting fire through the roof" sort of thing).

So, to summarize - the report of a building fire is what we're dispatched to. A working fire is what we confirm once we know everyone's going to work.

[firemoose827 324]

I think the term "working fire" has been overused as of late.... A structure fire is a generalized even to describe a fire at a structure... it could be oven, room and contents, chimney, OR working.... A working fire is one that is best described as a fire that is progressing beyond the point of ignition to involve other parts of the structure, rooms, etc....

One room off is not a working fire... a kitchen fire with extention to the floor above is a working fire.... JMHO

ok heres my take on the subject--and please do not take it as gospel--"Structure fire" is defined by NYS NIFERS. any fire in/on or under s structure.

"Working fire" --here comes that age and wisdome factor---comes from when the Officer would communicate with either the members of the crew or base department that the members were in fact "going to work"

there are lots of fire house/department jargon out there that has been a carryover form many years ago. We are steep in tridiation.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL AND TO ALL A SAFE HOILDAY

I always thought it was

Structure Fire: dispatch description

Working Fire/Working Structure Fire: Confirmed fire that would take some work (ie, more than a can and charged line) to put out

These posts pretty much sum it up for our area as well.

We are dispatched to a "structure fire" which could be anything, but until an officer makes a size-up we wont know. We are dispatched to chimney fires under this category as well, being the chimney is part of the structure, so when a chief arrives and see's that its in the chimney they will call it out on the radio, but if he/she gets there and smoke and flame are pushing out a window, they call for a "working structure fire" meaning we will be going to work interior to extinguish fire.

I see that no one mentioned the mis-used term of "fully involved" here. It happens so much in my area I lost count. We get toned out for a "fully involved structure fire" only to arrive on scene and find out it was steam from a shower that the neighbor saw...

Or a "fully involved car fire" only to get there and see a little smoke coming from the engine compartment...

We were dispatched 3 weeks ago to a "fully involved barn fire" and it ended up being a small amount of hay in a drain ditch just inside an old dairy barn extinguished with a bucket of water by a passersby from a kiddy pool found in the yard...

I think the terminology state-wide is vastly different and can be interpreted by each department in a different way, which is why NIMS is supposedly being used, to use "common terminology" in "plain language".

So far we have; "working fire", "structure fire", "room and contents", "fully involved". Did we miss any?

[x129K 1,393]

So far we have; "working fire", "structure fire", "room and contents", "fully involved". Did we miss any?

Job, Worker, Goin' to work, DO WORK!, J O B, Stretching on a dwelling, OSW, Going Good, All Hands, Confirmed Worker, Burner, Suit Up!, Dumpin' The Monitor, 10-75, and my favorite; Shake and Bake Boys, We Got A Barbecue!

[wraftery 1,275]

YOU CAN SEE HOW FAR WE'VE COME TOWARD OUR GOAL OF COMMON TERMINOLOGY

I BELIEVE WE HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR AT LEAST 30 YEARS NOW.

BTW...WHAT'S A RESCUE UNIT?

[x129K 1,393]

Heavy Rescue, Light Rescue, Medium rescue, Rescue-Engine, Squad, or Ambulance?

[firemoose827 324]

Heavy Rescue, Light Rescue, Medium rescue, Rescue-Engine, Squad, or Ambulance?

Dont forget Rescue Squad, Rescue Company, Special Rescue,

Thanks for reminding me about the other terms, I too love the shake n' bake one from "Backdraft".

But most of the officers in my area will just stand in the front yard scratching their heads and say "Golly, that thar house is a fiar!! (spit) reckon we need more water and stuff and get me nother can o' skoal too!!"

Sorry...Im from long island originally and couldnt help the joke...you can take the person from the city but you cant take the city from the person...peace out.

[x129K 1,393]

Then it sounds like you have alot of work to do there Chief...

And I love Skoal.

[wraftery 1,275]

Dont forget Rescue Squad, Rescue Company, Special Rescue,

Thanks for reminding me about the other terms, I too love the shake n' bake one from "Backdraft".

But most of the officers in my area will just stand in the front yard scratching their heads and say "Golly, that thar house is a fiar!! (spit) reckon we need more water and stuff and get me nother can o' skoal too!!"

Sorry...Im from long island originally and couldnt help the joke...you can take the person from the city but you cant take the city from the person...peace out.

Hear about the guy from Alabama who was pulled over by a Trooper on the NY State Thruway?

Trooper says "Got any ID?"

Redneck answers "Bout whut?"

[firemoose827 324]

Then it sounds like you have alot of work to do there Chief...

And I love Skoal.

Hey, atleast we are all NIMS compliant out here, we all speak "common language" (of redneck), so thats one step finished!

Yes, I have some work to do, but I have some great line officers who are ready to learn and want to work with me to get things going and I hope we can. Might take a couple of years but we will get it going in the right direction.

Stay Safe