Discussion - Newtown, CT - School Shooting - 12/14/12

[JetPhoto 626]

Very sad day 18 Children & 9 adults dead several injured in a Elementary school WFT???

Edit 16:50: Updated total is 20 Children & 6 Adults and the shooter (who apparently took his own life) at the school. 1 offsite at a separate location.

Words and prayers could do little for the families and the responder's who are are suffering.

I hope that the responder's accept the help that will be provided, we need you to get through this.

I will pray for them.

Edited December 14, 2012 by JetPhoto

[PHIL78 129]

Absolute jaw dropping insanity. Children really? CHILDREN?!!!!!!

[ldrco195 17]

May the lords of their religionss accept them into their new world..... thoughts and prayers with everyone... god bless....

** from the father of a 9 y/o daughter and 5 y/o son **

[hawkbase 21]

Unbelievable! So sad...what a waste!

[peterose313 345]

My nephew is 4 years old and this easily could have been my town, his school, he himself could have been a victim!

My heart goes out to all families and children of that school. I can't even begin to imagine having to go into that school to identify my little boy or girl.

RIP to all the victims of this tragedy.

[JM15 386]

Don't forget to pray for the first responders also!!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Don't forget to pray for the first responders also!!

Absolutely, I saw a couple of familiar faces in the pictures and videos from the scene. God only knows what they're going through.

[firemoose827 324]

Yes, those first responders must be going through some tough feelings right now, pray for them as well.

This makes me sick to my stomache and is exactly why I didnt want my daughter to go to public school...most of those schools are nothing but deathtraps waiting to happen with all of the drugs, bullying, not enough teachers, too many kids, things get out of control and this happens...

My daughter got in trouble the other day for coming to the defense of a little girl getting bullied by two older boys...AND MY GIRL GOT IN TROUBLE?!?!? And they wonder why these things happen??

Thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families, the teachers and staff, and above all the first responders who are sorting through this mess...god bless.

[firemp218 3]

Rip to all in ct

[pasobuff 38]

Rest in Peace to all....I used to live in Newtown and went to a neighboring elementary school.....very very sad.....I've been listening to the live coverage most of the day while working.....my heart goes out to all - including the families of the parents of the shooter...it is being reported both of his parents have possibly been killed.....sad, very sad....

[ex-commish 490]

I keep asking why? Why again?? All these kids and teachers did was go to school. All I can say is my prayers go to all affected including the responders who had and will continue to deal with this tradegy. Hug your kids!!!

[x635 4,066]

Absolutely horrifying. I can't imagine what these parents are going through. I don't think there are words for it. Thoughts and prayers are with everyone involved.

[x129K 1,393]

As time goes on and more details emerge, we will read more about small acts of bravery and heroism, from the small children themselves, to the teachers, to the 911 Dispatcher, to the cops and firemen....and it will drive home that in the midst of pure, unthinkable, evil, good still exists.

[GBFD111 73]

Police/Fire Audio From The Shooting

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Will today be the day we finally have the meaningful and worthwhile conversation about firearms in this country? If not today then when? If not the day when our young and innocent lay dead in their seats and in their school then when?

Ask yourself this, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

Another mass murder was attempted yesterday around the globe in China, ~20 students attacked in their school. How many of them died? The answer is zero. Zero children died yesterday in a school attach in China, you know why? Because the attack in China was committed with a knife, not a gun. For everyone that still thinks guns don't kill people, people kill people ask yourselves why the children in America died but the children in China lived? The answer is guns and firearms. People may attack people, but guns finish the job by killing.

So ask yourselves again, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

[50-65 205]

Will today be the day we finally have the meaningful and worthwhile conversation about firearms in this country? If not today then when? If not the day when our young and innocent lay dead in their seats and in their school then when?

Ask yourself this, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

Another mass murder was attempted yesterday around the globe in China, ~20 students attacked in their school. How many of them died? The answer is zero. Zero children died yesterday in a school attach in China, you know why? Because the attack in China was committed with a knife, not a gun. For everyone that still thinks guns don't kill people, people kill people ask yourselves why the children in America died but the children in China lived? The answer is guns and firearms. People may attack people, but guns finish the job by killing.

So ask yourselves again, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

The firearms used, 2 handguns, were legally purchased, owned and REGISTERED to a LICENSED person. They were stolen after that person was murdered.

Like most politicians, several people will have knee jerk reactions to this senseless act carried out by a mentally disturbed individual. They will call for all kinds of new laws and regulations when the ones we have still mean nothing the criminal. So China should ban knives. We should make it illegal to own and drive cars because some people choose to drink and drive and kill others.

What would you have us do, ban all private ownership of firearms? Have the government confiscate them? The ONLY thing that is keeping what is left of our constitution intact is the Second Amendment. Without it, and what it provides, the rest of the amendments and the rest of the Constituton stand no chance of surviving for long.

Gov Huckabee said it correctly as have many others in the past. We, as a nation, have pushed God from our schools, work, politics, sports, and just about every aspect of our lives. And then we wonder where He is when something like this happens.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,....murders....: All these evil things come from within... ." Mark 7:21,23.

My condolances to the many who have suffered loss this tragic day. You will be in my prayers.

[v85 212]

Have they said how he got into a classroom if the building was locked down after he shot the staff members in the office?

[helicopper 1,050]

Will today be the day we finally have the meaningful and worthwhile conversation about firearms in this country? If not today then when? If not the day when our young and innocent lay dead in their seats and in their school then when?

Ask yourself this, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

Another mass murder was attempted yesterday around the globe in China, ~20 students attacked in their school. How many of them died? The answer is zero. Zero children died yesterday in a school attach in China, you know why? Because the attack in China was committed with a knife, not a gun. For everyone that still thinks guns don't kill people, people kill people ask yourselves why the children in America died but the children in China lived? The answer is guns and firearms. People may attack people, but guns finish the job by killing.

So ask yourselves again, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

From the same article about the incidents in China...

No motive was given for the stabbings, which echo a string of similar assaults against schoolchildren in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.

Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system's ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness.

In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/man-attacks-22-kids-knife-china-school-article-1.1220230#ixzz2F87dFd6k

The simple fact is you can kill multiple people with a knife if that is your intent.

If this lunatic in CT had driven his car onto the playground at recess and run over multiple people would you be calling for a ban on cars next?

We simply don't know how many times guns save the lives of innocent people but I'm reminded of one story about a year ago where a single mom defended herself and her baby by shooting and killing an intruder who broke into her home. There's probably a thread on that story too since the 911 tapes were broadcast on the news and the story got a lot of attention at the time.

Banning LEGAL guns won't stop gun related violence.

[helicopper 1,050]

Have they said how he got into a classroom if the building was locked down after he shot the staff members in the office?

How hard is it to get into a locked room if you really want too? He either kicked in the door, shot the lock mechanism until it failed, or broke a window to gain access I suppose.

[v85 212]

So do lockdowns really work then? The main reason I was given for locking down is that there might be other shooters outside and that school shooters are looking for easy targets and wouldn't go through the work of breaking down a door.

But if that is the case, that is like saying don't evacuate during a structure fire because there might be power lines down or a plane might fall from the sky. With a lockdown you are essentially saying "cower in a corner and pray PD makes it in time"

[helicopper 1,050]

So do lockdowns really work then? The main reason I was given for locking down is that there might be other shooters outside and that school shooters are looking for easy targets and wouldn't go through the work of breaking down a door.

But if that is the case, that is like saying don't evacuate during a structure fire because there might be power lines down or a plane might fall from the sky. With a lockdown you are essentially saying "cower in a corner and pray PD makes it in time"

Locked doors may slow someone down or limit their access to large numbers of people. Instead of having everyone running around in the halls creating a (excuse the term) shooting gallery environment, the locked doors and limited numbers in each room reduce the exposure of innocent people and make it easier for the police to secure the environment too. I wouldn't call that cowering in the corner. Unarmed, untrained civilians should seek shelter during something like this. What else would you have them do?

In this case, the suspect seems to have been targeting a very specific person and unfortunately the kids that were with her.

Overall, I think lockdowns work but this guy was intent on completing his mission so the locked door didn't stop him. Unfortunately.

[v85 212]

Once he was trying to break down the door, why not go out the rescue window, if on the first floor, and try to take shelter somewhere outside?

I believe Col Grossman wrote an article about how lockdowns can be fluid and moving in a case like that

[helicopper 1,050]

Once he was trying to break down the door, why not go out the rescue window, if on the first floor, and try to take shelter somewhere outside?

I believe Col Grossman wrote an article about how lockdowns can be fluid and moving in a case like that

If they didn't plan and train for that contingency, the opportunity may have eluded them. Remember, we're only as good as our training!

This does bring up the issue of how comprehensive emergency planning is.

Col. Grossman does an excellent job of addressing these issues. Too bad more people don't heed his advice.

[v85 212]

I would agree to all of that

Also, I would probably say that locking down is effective in most circumstances, but we should try to plan for all circumstances, not just most of them. Even if it is as simple as keeping an object near the door that could be used as a prop or barricade, or if you have interconnecting rooms, moving between them if someone tries to go into one of them.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

LTC Grossman has said a LOT of things that would apply to this tragedy, when the time comes I will post what I'm thinking, I don't think its appropriate at this time.

We just had our After Action Review from Hurricane Sandy the other day, I stressed the importance to my fellow department heads for ALL HAZARDS planning. We're so used to focusing on purely storms now, that I'm concerned people may be overlooking the manmade hazards. I'm sure I will be getting a call from our Board of Ed regarding beefing up their Emergency Operations Plan in the near future.

Houston PD put together a great video regarding Active Shooter incidents, stressing three ways to survive: Run, Hide or Fight.

[efermann 28]

From my own high school teacher perspective...we go through lock down/lock out drills each year. Do i think this would keep someone intent on committing such an act of violence? No. Would they slow them down? Yes.

My classroom is on the first floor and it has definitely crossed my mind to "toss" my students out of the class in a case such as this.

[ex-commish 490]

Will today be the day we finally have the meaningful and worthwhile conversation about firearms in this country? If not today then when? If not the day when our young and innocent lay dead in their seats and in their school then when?

Ask yourself this, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

Another mass murder was attempted yesterday around the globe in China, ~20 students attacked in their school. How many of them died? The answer is zero. Zero children died yesterday in a school attach in China, you know why? Because the attack in China was committed with a knife, not a gun. For everyone that still thinks guns don't kill people, people kill people ask yourselves why the children in America died but the children in China lived? The answer is guns and firearms. People may attack people, but guns finish the job by killing.

So ask yourselves again, are your guns really worth the lives of the innocent?

Ask yourself...did prohibition stop people from getting booze? No. Drugs are illegal...does that stop people from getting them? How long has the war on drugs been in effect? NY has one of the toughest gun laws in the country. I, as a retired law enforcement officer have to file for a permit like anyone else if I want to carry a gun with the process taking months. Yet there are still a large amount of shootings in NY with illegal guns. I understand the frustration of people when things like this happen but at the end of the day it is people who are the cause not the instrument itself.

I fully understand the frustration when horrible things like this happen but to make gun laws tougher ( at times the current ones aren't even enforced)will not solve the problem. May God rest the souls of those taken...

[INIT915 1,119]

Gov Huckabee said it correctly as have many others in the past. We, as a nation, have pushed God from our schools, work, politics, sports, and just about every aspect of our lives. And then we wonder where He is when something like this happens.

"For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts,....murders....: All these evil things come from within... ." Mark 7:21,23.

My condolances to the many who have suffered loss this tragic day. You will be in my prayers.

Yes. That was the problem. These kindergartners weren't religious enough. Pathetic.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Mike Huckabee is a piece of human garbage. Anyone remember the 4 cops killed by a perp HE pardoned for murder?

[adlere21 9]

Yes. That was the problem. These kindergartners weren't religious enough. Pathetic.

Do you honestly believe that's what Huckabee was trying to say? Is it possible, just possible, his comment was a general statement about our society's dramatic loss of ethics, personal responsibility, personal accountability, etc? Whether that is an appropriate comment for this particular tragedy is certainly debatable, but do you really believe he inteded to imply that "These kindergartners weren't religious enough"?


"The tech club held "LAN parties" — short for local area network — in which students would gather at a member's home, hook up their computers into a small network and play games. Gloria Milas, Joshua's mother, said Adam Lanza's mother hosted one of the parties."

""He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths," referring to a style of dress noted for a heavily black wardrobe."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/kindergarten-killers-background-parents-divorced-played-video-games-was-one-goths

IF the above turns out to be true, is it just possible Huckabee just could possibly have a point? Were those teenage video game parties actually hosting virtual "killing fests" or were the video games of the Sesame Street variety? Was the "goth" lifestyle a warning, or just one of our liberal "anything goes" lifestyle endorsements? The facts are NOT out yet......but it may turn out Huckabee had a valid point.