Mutual aid?

[INIT915 1,119]

Every time one of these treads comes up, I'm always reminded how comparatively smooth police mutual aid operates here in Westchester.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Every time one of these treads comes up, I'm always reminded how comparatively smooth police mutual aid operates here in Westchester.

Must be nice to have only one training standard

[JFLYNN 681]

On October 10th when Larchmont had the fire at the car dealership at 2050 boston post road why would they call Greenville to cover Larchmont HQ and a Pelham engine to the scene when you have departments like VMFD,Harrison FD, which are closer and more familiar with the area... It just doesnt make sense to me to have MA from Greenville and Pelham come all the way to Larchmont.

Who decides which mutual aid department is covering or operating at a certain scene ?

It's apples and oranges...if you asked the waiter in a restaurant, for say, apple pie, and he told you it would take 10 minutes to arrive at the table, but if you would rather, you can order orange soufle, which might arrive in 5 minutes, or perhaps take as long as 30 minutes, depending on the chef's mood, most people would order the apple pie...

Edited December 6, 2012 by JFLYNN

[Bnechis 3,961]

Chief Flynn orders pie instead of mutual aid

"Batt 1 to Dispatch have the apple pie locate near exposure #1 and report to the CP"

Edited December 6, 2012 by Bnechis

[INIT915 1,119]

Chief Flynn orders pie instead of mutual aid

"Batt 1 to Dispatch have the apple pie locate near exposure #1 and report to the CP"

I know apple pie is "all-American", but I would like to try the orange souffle if YFD is buying.

[wraftery 1,275]

It's apples and oranges...if you asked the waiter in a restaurant, for say, apple pie, and he told you it would take 10 minutes to arrive at the table, but if you would rather, you can order orange soufle, which might arrive in 5 minutes, or perhaps take as long as 30 minutes, depending on the chef's mood, most people would order the apple pie...

AND it is probably the last time you went to that restaurant.

While we are on the subject of apple pie, if your neighbor said he was a little hard up financially, I am sure you would share some of your pie with him.

But if he starts you for pie too often, you would probably tell him to find somebody else to mooch food from.

[16fire5 693]

and entering into a world where putting out the fire with water may not always be the best thing

Wrong wrong wrong. If we have learned anything in the past few years it's get water on the seat of the fire fast and first.

[ex-commish 490]

Their is a standardized inservice program in NYS. It is required for all career ff's. And once again we circle bac to the fact that until there is one standard for all FIRE FIGHTERS we will always have problems.

Andy, I know a number that do not even meet the OSHA minimum (remember that the "8" hour does not include all of the requirements).

Barry yes I am aware of the in-service for career departments. I was referring to volunteer departments. I also agree there should be one standard of training for all firefighters like in other states. As I have stated many times before and even wrote to OFPC and FASNY on this is allowing volunteer departments to appoint MTO's.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Barry yes I am aware of the in-service for career departments. I was referring to volunteer departments. I also agree there should be one standard of training for all firefighters like in other states. As I have stated many times before and even wrote to OFPC and FASNY on this is allowing volunteer departments to appoint MTO's.

Andy, I know you are aware of it, but even though it is not required, each volunteer department could adopt it.

Could it be standardized? Yes.

Could it be done on a county or regional level? Yes

Would it chase away volunteers? I do not know, but if you cant dedicate a minimum of 2 hours of training per week (or 8 hours per month) then you are of no use to the fire dept. and maybe chasing those that cant be bothered away is a good thing.

Could it be run at DES? Yes, but funding might be an issue.

The volunteer service and the communities it protects will continue to suffer until FASNY has a total rethink of what it fights for and against.

[x635 4,066]

Whats the on duty staffing for greenville Seth? Sending a crew of 6 is a very large response for a paid or volunteer company to send in this day and age. Do they have a call back sytem or volunteers to back up the crew leaving district.

They do callback to staff the sspare engine .And, when the MV calls for Greenville, one main things are Greeville. Greenville is not just another fire engine, it's a Sqaud., with tons of tools, extremlt

[peterose313 345]

They do callback to staff the sspare engine .And, when the MV calls for Greenville, one main things are Greeville. Greenville is not just another fire engine, it's a Sqaud., with tons of tools, extremlt

They've had a ton of problems with that rig. If they get called for m/a when the spare is in service (like it was just recently since their newest truck had another breakdown) do they still go out or do they stay in district?

[x4093k 654]

They've had a ton of problems with that rig. If they get called for m/a when the spare is in service (like it was just recently since their newest truck had another breakdown) do they still go out or do they stay in district?

You mean squuuaad 15? It's an American Lafrance isn't it? Pleasantville has one like it, not an engine though. i wonder if they get the same problems...

[peterose313 345]

You mean squuuaad 15? It's an American Lafrance isn't it? Pleasantville has one like it, not an engine though. i wonder if they get the same problems...

Yessir, that would be the one I'm talking about.

[NoWestFF 21]

1) 60 Control will follow the depts. preplan if it can. Its only 60 Control decision if the IC says: "Get me an engine or get me a truck or even get me a mid mount 95 ft tower ladder". If the IC says get me Mildew Hose companies tower ladder, then thats what 60 will call.

2) While the coordinators will try to avoid stripping part of the county, everytime there is a fire in the northeast or northwest 1/2 the tankers in the county (all in that region) are stripped.

3) If we request all the depts in our region, 60 will contact all the depts in the region. It is up to each dept. to determine (at the time of the request) if they can assist while maintaining home coverage. There are times when depts have to turn down the request because of unit activity, apparatus out of service, staffing, etc.

Since water is as important as firefighters when extinguishing a fire and not all areas of the county have hydrants or are close to bodies of water for drafting operations, tankers in the northern part of the county are critical and will be called to the scene. You may consider the need for multiple tankers to respond to a fire as "stripping" a region, but I consider it a request by an IC for a necessary resource.

Chiefs in the county who depend upon tanker shuttles are aware of the risk of pulling multiple tankers from a region, but they're as concerned with quickly establishing a water supply that will support containment and extinguishment as safely as possible. We've seen on EMT Bravo and in other fire service forums comments about the need to quickly "get water on the fire" and how "most problems go away when the fire is put out" so a mutual aid request or a pre-plan is likely going to pull the closest tankers to the scene of a fire. A good battalion coordinator or 60 Control dispatcher will recognize the impact of pulling multiple tankers from an area and compensate by backfilling some of the tankers or putting other departments on stand by.

[GFD70 4]

I guess Greenville is more popular then I thought.

As far as the Larchmont fire goes, we weren't called until almost 2 hours into to operation so we were must have been pretty far down the list. On the flip side, Larchmont is also on our mutual aid list so it is MUTUAL, we just haven't had to call them yet. At least 3 of the guys who responded on that call are from the Sound Shore so they knew the area very well. Also, most departments provide a guide-usually a callback FF-to ride with the mutual aid rig.

When we send a rig on mutual aid-be it to the scene or to relocate-we almost always send 1 Capt. and 3 FF''s. We will also initiate a call back of 1 & 3, starting with the guys who live closest. Rarely will we send more then that unless both rigs are requested. We have on occasion sent additional manpower once we were back to full manning in quarters.

As far as interoperability goes: we carry the neccessary adaptors for the neighboring departments that we work with as well as having a bag with our adaptors in our apparatus bay for incoming units should they not have them. We also have a laptop and mutual aid guide book on each rig as well that lists what channels to use and hopefully soon will have hydrants and other building information stored on them for all of the departments we work with.

[Bnechis 3,961]

You mean squuuaad 15? It's an American Lafrance isn't it? Pleasantville has one like it, not an engine though. i wonder if they get the same problems...

Yessir, that would be the one I'm talking about.

Its a Ferrarra

[Bnechis 3,961]

Since water is as important as firefighters when extinguishing a fire and not all areas of the county have hydrants or are close to bodies of water for drafting operations, tankers in the northern part of the county are critical and will be called to the scene. You may consider the need for multiple tankers to respond to a fire as "stripping" a region, but I consider it a request by an IC for a necessary resource.

I strongly agree that they are needed, my point was that we are willing to strip a region when needed. If its a "necessary resource" then maybe we need to do a better job of preplanning. The minimum fireflow requirement under NFPA is 500gpm. To maintain this (or higher) you need at least 4 and possible as many as 8 tankers (depending on travel distance to fill sites and the calculated gpm of each tanker). Since thats all the tankers available on either the No. East or No. West every working fire will require stripping.

As a side note: we have 4x the number of engines needed in those areas and we never strip all of them. Could it be we do not have enough tankers?

Chiefs in the county who depend upon tanker shuttles are aware of the risk of pulling multiple tankers from a region, but they're as concerned with quickly establishing a water supply that will support containment and extinguishment as safely as possible. We've seen on EMT Bravo and in other fire service forums comments about the need to quickly "get water on the fire" and how "most problems go away when the fire is put out" so a mutual aid request or a pre-plan is likely going to pull the closest tankers to the scene of a fire. A good battalion coordinator or 60 Control dispatcher will recognize the impact of pulling multiple tankers from an area and compensate by backfilling some of the tankers or putting other departments on stand by.

I agree with almost everything you said, except you really cant compensate with backfilling, since there are not enough to begine with, so backfilling just means you have stripped another area of its 1st due water supply.

[wraftery 1,275]

"and entering into a world where putting out the fire with water may not always be the best thing"

Wrong wrong wrong. If we have learned anything in the past few years it's get water on the seat of the fire fast and first.

There is only one reason the manufacturers are selling you foams, rapid, slippery water, penetrating juices, surface tension breaking potions, little grenades that are thrown in the window, and on and on.

It's because they are unable to sell you WATER!

Once manufacturers realize that people are drinking bottled water at a cost per gallon that is greater than the price of gasoline, and that they can buy the same NYC tap water for pocket change, they will then be able to sell us water, the universal solvent.