Paramedics union demands FDNY’s EMS chief resign over Sandy fiasco

[nycmedic 65]

Paramedics union demands FDNY’s EMS chief resign over Sandy fiasco

By SUSAN EDELMAN, REBECCA HARSHBARGER and KATE BRIQUELET

Last Updated: 9:39 AM, November 25, 2012

City medics are demanding the resignation of EMS boss Abdo Nahmod, claiming he mismanaged the response to Superstorm Sandy.

First responders say medical care devolved into chaos as the hurricane’s floodwaters swamped EMS stations and paralyzed ambulances — sometimes stranding medics on their roofs — all because the FDNY failed to follow its own hurricane plan.

The two unions representing EMTs/paramedics and EMS officers last week voted “no confidence” in Chief Nahmod and called for his immediate ouster, according to copies of the resolution found on the FDNY/EMS Rant Web site and the Facebook page of a Local 2507 executive.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/drench_warfare_at_ems_H5j2bW3EacqRPoxKUXc0iN

Edited November 27, 2012 by helicopper
Source Copyright

[nycmedic 65]

There is also a picture of Manhattan's division commander being carried on a stair chair out side a flooded EMS station because she did not want to get wet . I have seen the picture but can no post it because it is not mine.

[newsbuff 286]

So are we going to have a turnover of administration every time a disaster hits? I will absolutely say that it was ill-prepared, but is that a reason to get ANOTHER new ems chief?

[prucha25 76]

If you worked FDNY EMS you would understand everything over the rank of Captain needs a major overhaul. With the exception of a handful of Chiefs our " management" is a joke. Not to mention Chief Nahmod was nowhere to be found during the storm, and the Chiefs under his command ordered units to stay in evac zones ( not at stations as the fire commissioner said) thus putting their lives in danger. and delaying care to patients. Why wouldn't that warrant replacement? If someone died would that suffice? 4 EMS stations alone in Manhattan were evacuated with no planning and no preparation. Also illegal drug transfers( narcotics)/ tour changes were handled on street corners in the middle of Manhattan. As NYCMEDIC pointed out there is a picture ( which I have seen) where a Chief was being carried in a stair chair by her subordinates in flooded conditions.

There will also be a news report on channel 2 at 6pm this evening, I'm not sure what it's covering but it's about EMS during Sandy.

Edited November 27, 2012 by prucha25

[SSweet88MonteSS 0]

And Peruggia was demoted for some other things in addition to the blizzard response, which was just the icing on the cake.

[prucha25 76]

And Peruggia was demoted for some other things in addition to the blizzard response, which was just the icing on the cake.

That is true, he was being investigated before the storm, they just used that as an excuse ( even though he was out helping crews and digging out buses during the storm).

[helicopper 1,050]

There is also a picture of Manhattan's division commander being carried on a stair chair out side a flooded EMS station because she did not want to get wet . I have seen the picture but can no post it because it is not mine.

If there is a link to this picture online, the link may be posted so others can view it.

[prucha25 76]

Note this is NOT my photo.

[Bnechis 3,961]

[antiquefirelt 994]

Note this is NOT my photo.

No F'ing way!?!(Sorry nothing else seemed to say what was needed!) Anyone who'd do that outside of a joke would be in the drink at best... That kind of abuse of personnel is not wholly admin's fault, stuff has had to have been let slide far too much for anyone to think that could be remotely OK. We have a great Union/Admin relationship and I'm certain our people would have tripped on a "manhole". Edited November 27, 2012 by antiquefirelt

[prucha25 76]

The picture I posted as well as others were on CBS 2 news at 6 just now. When the segment becomes available online I will link it here. I will tell you one thing though, this isn't about EMS members "whining about being wet". This is about the safety of our coworkers and the public we are sworn to protect, and the failure of our leadership during Sandy.

[nycmedic 65]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/27/paramedics-emts-charge-ems-head-with-reckless-decision-making-during-sandy

[helicopper 1,050]

"This is whining about getting wet"?!?!?!?! That's got to be one of the most demoralizing and mean-spirited remarks I've heard. Wow.

[nycmedic 65]

The only one whining about getting wet is the chief who ordered her subordinates to carry her so she did not get wet.

[ems-buff 81]

Wonder if there is a way, to say the hell with FDNY, and try to go back to health, and hospital? To all my friends on here who work FDNY You guys did one hell of a job.. God bless

[bad box 371]

Wonder if there is a way, to say the hell with FDNY, and try to go back to health, and hospital? To all my friends on here who work FDNY You guys did one hell of a job.. God bless

Reverting to the old HHC operated EMS would be a big step backwards. EMS was so bad when it was part of HHC that many communities formed volunteer ambulance corps. so that there would be rapid assistance available (and proper patient care) when needed. I worked for HHC's EMS., there was little or no enforcement of crews who would 'disappear 45 minutes to and hour before the end of each tour, didn't answer the radio when called, the list of major problems is too long to include here. HHC's EMS was terrible at best.

[prucha25 76]

Reverting to the old HHC operated EMS would be a big step backwards. EMS was so bad when it was part of HHC that many communities formed volunteer ambulance corps. so that there would be rapid assistance available (and proper patient care) when needed. I worked for HHC's EMS., there was little or no enforcement of crews who would 'disappear 45 minutes to and hour before the end of each tour, didn't answer the radio when called, the list of major problems is too long to include here. HHC's EMS was terrible at best.

Reverting to the old HHC operated EMS would be a big step backwards. EMS was so bad when it was part of HHC that many communities formed volunteer ambulance corps. so that there would be rapid assistance available (and proper patient care) when needed. I worked for HHC's EMS., there was little or no enforcement of crews who would 'disappear 45 minutes to and hour before the end of each tour, didn't answer the radio when called, the list of major problems is too long to include here. HHC's EMS was terrible at best.

As much a I hate to admit it this is true. EMS is treated like a second class citizen in the FDNY but it is still better then when we were under HHC ( based on what I've been told). There are some old timers who swear up and down on HHC but the majority say it's better under FDNY. We've gotten better pay/ benefits, as well as a much better budget for EMS. The ambulances used to be barebones you were lucky to be part 800. Now most of our buses are overstocked and the stations have plenty of extra to restock. However as I mentioned you are a second class citizen. Many people get frustrated that when EMS does something they refer to you as " FDNY members " or " Firefighters" and very rarely mention EMS. Also the changing our of supervisors mentality has changed drastically in even the 4 years I've been there. I wish our bosses were like the bosses for the Firefighters, but ours would rather write charge packets, for the same thing they were doing a year ago before they got their bar. This is where the whole Sandy thing comes into play. Unlike what the Commissioner says units were ordered to stay at their cross street locations ( not in shelter) during the storm, and station supervisors were ordered to stay in quarters until the water was so many many people lost their cars because it was too late to evacuate. Had these same Chiefs been out in the field ( there is usually only 1 to 2 EMS chiefs on at night and they're basically ghosts who only appear when something big happens) they would have seen how fast the conditions deteriorated and how much danger the crews were in. Putting the crews in danger jeopardized the citizen's we are here to protect because we became focused on trying to save each other and therefore took longer to respond to emergencies. Many member unnecessarily lost possessions and their vehicles because of the lack of preplanning and the lack of orders issued. This is a job to be proud of, and a honorable job where people look up to you. However I believe it is unacceptable to sit back and simply take abuse which can endanger you, this isn't a rant by someone who is burnt out, this is a rant by someone who loves his job however wish it was managed much much differently.

[newsbuff 286]

If you worked FDNY EMS you would understand everything over the rank of Captain needs a major overhaul. With the exception of a handful of Chiefs our " management" is a joke. Not to mention Chief Nahmod was nowhere to be found during the storm, and the Chiefs under his command ordered units to stay in evac zones ( not at stations as the fire commissioner said) thus putting their lives in danger. and delaying care to patients. Why wouldn't that warrant replacement? If someone died would that suffice? 4 EMS stations alone in Manhattan were evacuated with no planning and no preparation. Also illegal drug transfers( narcotics)/ tour changes were handled on street corners in the middle of Manhattan. As NYCMEDIC pointed out there is a picture ( which I have seen) where a Chief was being carried in a stair chair by her subordinates in flooded conditions.

There will also be a news report on channel 2 at 6pm this evening, I'm not sure what it's covering but it's about EMS during Sandy.

I guess I spoke too soon, and didn't have a clear statement when I replied.

[sympathomedic 383]

Can ayone say if FDNY fire units were evacuatated from low lying statons to higher ground? Was there a double standard? If so is there an explanation for it?

[prucha25 76]

Can ayone say if FDNY fire units were evacuatated from low lying statons to higher ground? Was there a double standard? If so is there an explanation for it?

I'm pretty sure fire was in the same boat as us. I remember hearing about fire companies who needed to be rescued from their quarters. I can't speak on behalf of them though, only from the EMS perspective.

[x129K 1,393]

I read on buff sites where Special Ops companies were dispatched to firehouses for rescues of firemen trapped in their buildings, forced to the upper floors.

[foreman1923 22]

Just another reason why captains and chiefs in FDNY EMS should be tested positions with training.. In brutal honesty alot of higher ranking officials are glorified lieutenants since that's the highest rank you achieve via civil service the rest is promotion via word of mouth

[sympathomedic 383]

Well, if the EMS guys want their chief tossed out, and the Fire Commissioner did the very same thing, then that explains the commissioner's defense of the EMS chief, doesn't it? How can you fire a guy for doing what you did?

[prucha25 76]

Well, if the EMS guys want their chief tossed out, and the Fire Commissioner did the very same thing, then that explains the commissioner's defense of the EMS chief, doesn't it? How can you fire a guy for doing what you did?

The fire commissioner ordered one thing and the EMS chiefs didn't execute those orders. There was another piece of CBS tonight. The city council is going to have hearings on this in January.

Just another reason why captains and chiefs in FDNY EMS should be tested positions with training.. In brutal honesty alot of higher ranking officials are glorified lieutenants since that's the highest rank you achieve via civil service the rest is promotion via word of mouth

I agree Edited November 29, 2012 by prucha25

[bad box 371]

As much a I hate to admit it this is true. EMS is treated like a second class citizen in the FDNY but it is still better then when we were under HHC ( based on what I've been told). There are some old timers who swear up and down on HHC but the majority say it's better under FDNY. We've gotten better pay/ benefits, as well as a much better budget for EMS. The ambulances used to be barebones you were lucky to be part 800. Now most of our buses are overstocked and the stations have plenty of extra to restock. However as I mentioned you are a second class citizen. Many people get frustrated that when EMS does something they refer to you as " FDNY members " or " Firefighters" and very rarely mention EMS. Also the changing our of supervisors mentality has changed drastically in even the 4 years I've been there. I wish our bosses were like the bosses for the Firefighters, but ours would rather write charge packets, for the same thing they were doing a year ago before they got their bar. This is where the whole Sandy thing comes into play. Unlike what the Commissioner says units were ordered to stay at their cross street locations ( not in shelter) during the storm, and station supervisors were ordered to stay in quarters until the water was so many many people lost their cars because it was too late to evacuate. Had these same Chiefs been out in the field ( there is usually only 1 to 2 EMS chiefs on at night and they're basically ghosts who only appear when something big happens) they would have seen how fast the conditions deteriorated and how much danger the crews were in. Putting the crews in danger jeopardized the citizen's we are here to protect because we became focused on trying to save each other and therefore took longer to respond to emergencies. Many member unnecessarily lost possessions and their vehicles because of the lack of preplanning and the lack of orders issued. This is a job to be proud of, and a honorable job where people look up to you. However I believe it is unacceptable to sit back and simply take abuse which can endanger you, this isn't a rant by someone who is burnt out, this is a rant by someone who loves his job however wish it was managed much much differently.

As I mentioned, I worked for HHC EMS prior to being hired as a Firefighter in FDNY. Having seen HHC EMS from both sides (as a member of EMS and then as a Firefighter) and eventually encountering FDNY EMS while operating at various incidents, I can honestly say that I found a terrific improvement in the quality of patient care as well as the overall attitude of the FDNY EMS folks over the majority of the HHC EMS folks. You definitely stated your feelings about FDNY EMS very well. Hang in there, hopefully things will improve as the years go by. Trust me, as much as conditions may not be all that you want (deserve) them to be, they are far better than they were in years gone by. I have great respect for the work that EMT's and Paramedics do often under far less than optimum conditions. Stay safe and keep your good attitude toward the important service that you provide to all who live in, visit or work in the five Boroughs.

[WAS967 97]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/27/paramedics-emts-charge-ems-head-with-reckless-decision-making-during-sandy/

Did someone slip something in my drink or is her (the anchor woman's) shirt psychedelic?

[nycmedic 65]

http://m.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/throne_of_cleopatra_yWPJPEpNoUnj8zNBrSxm7M

[firemoose827 324]

Just another reason why captains and chiefs in FDNY EMS should be tested positions with training.. In brutal honesty alot of higher ranking officials are glorified lieutenants since that's the highest rank you achieve via civil service the rest is promotion via word of mouth

Wow, you mean the officers of FDNY's EMS are not ALL civil service like they are on the fire side? You DONT need to test for higher rank then Lt? They get the job by "Who they know" as the old saying goes? That my friends, is a scary thing...wait, its kind of like the officer situation in my county...people here get chief at the age of 23 just because their daddy was chief...Now that IS scary if their EMS program is run like my county is. I hope for the sake of all of you here that work down there that things will change for the better so you can continue to do what you all do best; provide quality patient care and save lives instead of saving your EMS chiefs from getting wet. Best of luck to you guys/gals down in FDNY EMS.

Stay safe (and dry)

[adlere21 9]

If there is a link to this picture online, the link may be posted so others can view it.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/throne_of_cleopatra_yWPJPEpNoUnj8zNBrSxm7M