NYSEG Wants To Use Fire Police For Traffic Details

[everybodygoes 331]

Am I reading the emails from the pcbes correctly, that they are looking for fire police to direct traffic for nyseg? If so that is complete horse crap! Our volunteers should never be used for any corporate entity, especially one that likes to run bare bones operations till its too late. Pay these guys 30 an hour and ot after 8 hours like everyone else gets.

[Hazmatguy 5]

Really???? We should have two linemen from the out of state power companies directing traffic so it take longer to get the power back up...... it's a disaster and doing that would have been very helpful.......

[ajsbear 11]

Hire flagers

[danrango 3]

So we shouldn't do it for the police on accident investigations cause they are getting paid?? Come on really just help each other out and stop whining

[ex-commish 490]

Question. Will they be covered under VFBL if they are injured? Is this considered line of duty? Would hate to see a brother hurt and left out to dry due to non-coverage.

[jack10562 414]

It's one thing for a short-term emergency job, like a car wreck taking out a pole section with a transformer spill and mess of wires down, but it's certainly NOT OK for an ongoing widespread overhead line restoration project, like right now, when they're rebuilding the utility system from scratch as a result of storm damage.

[helicopper 1,050]

Question. Will they be covered under VFBL if they are injured? Is this considered line of duty? Would hate to see a brother hurt and left out to dry due to non-coverage.

If they are assigned to traffic direction/control by their department and that is a duty/mission of the fire police, I would expect that they're covered. Why is it any different than other wires/trees down call?

Considering some of the incidents that are labeled "line of duty", I think this is appropriate and well within the scope of their duties.

[helicopper 1,050]

It's one thing for a short-term emergency job, like a car wreck taking out a pole section with a transformer spill and mess of wires down, but it's certainly NOT OK for an ongoing widespread overhead line restoration project, like right now, when they're rebuilding the utility system from scratch as a result of storm damage.

Using that reasoning why are we providing "mutual aid" to fire departments on Long Island? It's a long-term disaster, not a short term emergency job yet we're sending dozens of crews down there two weeks later.

Double standard??

[ex-commish 490]

If they are assigned to traffic direction/control by their department and that is a duty/mission of the fire police, I would expect that they're covered. Why is it any different than other wires/trees down call?

Considering some of the incidents that are labeled "line of duty", I think this is appropriate and well within the scope of their duties.

I could be wrong but work being performed to a private or public trust corporation is not covered under VFBL. Is PSEG considered either of these? And this request is coming directly from PSEG and not through any mutual aid system. Again, I could be wrong and welcome any input to the contrary.

[helicopper 1,050]

I could be wrong but work being performed to a private or public trust corporation is not covered under VFBL. Is PSEG considered either of these? And this request is coming directly from PSEG and not through any mutual aid system. Again, I could be wrong and welcome any input to the contrary.

Interesting. Does this apply to regular wires down calls not associated with a storm such as Sandy?

Is this what you were referencing? Not to go off on a tangent but "fundraising" is considered line of duty????

http://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/firefighters/VFAW_inthelineofduty.jsp

Any of the following activities, pursuant to orders/authorization:

• Participation at a fire, alarm of fire, hazardous material incident, or other emergency situation that triggers response by the fire company or its units;
• Travel to, from and during fires or other calls to which the company responds; travel in connection with other authorized activities;
• Some duties in the firehouse, such as construction, repair, maintenance and inspection;
• Inspection of property for fire hazards or other dangerous conditions;
• Fire prevention activities;
• Attendance at fire instructions or fire school; instruction at training;
• Participation in authorized drills, parades, funerals, inspections/reviews, tournaments, contests or public exhibitions conducted for firefighters;
• Attendance at a convention or conference as an authorized delegate;
• Work on or testing of fire apparatus/equipment, fire alarm systems and fire cisterns;
• Meetings of the fire company;
• Pumping water or other substances from a basement or building;
• Inspection of fire apparatus prior to delivery;
• Response to a call for general ambulance service by a member of an authorized emergency rescue and first aid squad;
• Participation in a supervised physical fitness class; or
• Fundraising activities (non-competitive events).

What is "In the Line of Duty" for Volunteer Ambulance Workers?

• Travel to, working at and travel from an accident, alarm of accident or other duty to which the ambulance company has responded; travel in connection with other authorized activities;
• Personal assistance rendered to another ambulance company;
• Performance of duties at the ambulance facility or elsewhere, directly related to the prevention of accidents or other disasters or the delivery of emergency health care;
• Instruction or being instructed in ambulance duties; attendance at a training school or course of instruction for ambulance workers, or attendance at, or participation in, any noncompetitive training program;
• Attendance at, or participation in, authorized drills, parades, funerals, inspections or reviews;
• Attendance or work at meetings of the ambulance department or ambulance company, or any organized unit thereof, at the ambulance facility or other regular or special headquarters of the department, company or unit;
• Work in connection with the construction, testing, inspection, repair or maintenance of the ambulance facility and the fixtures, furnishings and equipment thereof, and the ambulance vehicles, ambulance apparatus and equipment used by the ambulance department, ambulance company, or other unit;
• Practice for, or participation as a contestant or an official in any competitive tournament, contest or public exhibition conducted for ambulance workers which is intended to promote the efficiency of the ambulance department, ambulance company or any unit;
• Inspection of ambulance vehicles and ambulance apparatus prior to delivery under a contract or purchase, or performance of duties in relation to the delivery;
• Attendance at a convention or conference of ambulance workers or ambulance officers as the authorized delegate or representative of the ambulance department, ambulance company or any unit; or
• Work in connection with a fundraising activity of the ambulance company, not including competitive events in which volunteer ambulance workers are competitors.

What is NOT "In the Line of Duty?"

• Participation, including practice, in any recreational or social activity, other than noncompetitive fundraising activities;
• Work rendered in the service of a private employer; public corporation or special district;
• Work rendered while on leave of absence or suspended from duty, or work that the volunteer has been ordered not to perform; or
• Competitive events in which volunteer members are competitors, such as baseball, basketball, football, bowling, tugs of war, donkey baseball, donkey basketball, boxing, wrestling, contests between bands or drum corps, or other competitive events in which volunteer members are competitors and which involve physical exertion on the part of the competitors.

[INIT915 1,119]

Is this what you were referencing? Not to go off on a tangent but "fundraising" is considered line of duty????

Great link. There are more than a few interesting activities covered as LOD.

[Tanker 10eng 140]

If wires come down in my town, and they are still energized, yes I will sit there and wait for Con Edison to show up and handle the problem.. why, ??? because I am doing what I can to protect my friends and neighbors... as soon as Con Ed is on the scene, it's theirs and we go... We do not stay there and direct traffic for them while they fix the problem... so why should it be any differnt down there ???

Yes, if called on I will gladly go down there or anywhere else to cover their fire dept. in a time of need, but I will not go there to direct traffic... Is NYSEG offering them the wages that would be paid to the normal flaggers ? I don't think so... Question then, would you see the Peekskill Police ( just picked them out of a hat, nothing personal ) send guys down there to do that and NOT get paid ??? I don't think so..

Anyone who thinks that volunteer fire/police should go do there and do it, please step to the front of the line and go there ( for free ) and do the job they are asking volunteers to do. There are plenty of PD and paid FD guys here, please lead the way and set an example...

[ex-commish 490]

Interesting. Does this apply to regular wires down calls not associated with a storm such as Sandy?

http://www.wcb.ny.go...elineofduty.jsp

You would be covered because you were dispatched which is the criteria for coverage.

[Jybehofd 85]

why can't a fire police help... this is and still going on national disaster and why can't a fire department be sent to open a road with down trees to the best of there abilities minding if wires are involved. It would have helped ALOT. just so that at least the largest engine/tanker could make it down that road in case there was a real need later to go down it. I am not say take jobs away from the highway. but open it so a truck can go through?

[jack10562 414]

The "tone" of the original post and what I read into it was NYSEG was looking for free labor from area volunteer departments.

There is nothing wrong with asking for or giving assistance during this event, In fact some areas would still be dead in the water without it, the utility should hire contractors for traffic control if they don't have a sufficient number of employees available.

[JetPhoto 626]

[everybodygoes 331]

Does NYSEG give you a break on your utility bill when you are out of power off your basic service charge? Why should a job that is usually done by paid and trained individuals be done by our fellow volunteers for free? Everyone is going to be getting some kind of disaster money, but the unlucky members who happen to respond to this. You can't compare this to going to long island to help staff FD's who have members who are living in hotels and family members. This is purely some manager trying to save money. And when was the last time you ever had NYSEG send you a 6ft hero or anything for the constant help we give them? So they give us 'free' classes, its to their advantage cause if they don't they assume liability. I have been away and have not been able to follow this, but still, how would you feel if you were an out of work laborer who was certified to handle traffic duties? Probably be pretty upset!

[Bnechis 3,961]

Why should a job that is usually done by paid and trained individuals be done by our fellow volunteers for free? ........ how would you feel if you were an out of work laborer who was certified to handle traffic duties? Probably be pretty upset!

And this is the argument the IAFF has been using for years (right or wrong) that the volunteer fire service says is not valid. I do not want this to turn into another career/vol bs....but you have really put it on the line.

Everyone is going to be getting some kind of disaster money, but the unlucky members who happen to respond to this.

You want volunteers to get paid to volunteer? The volunteer hours put into this can be used as part of the municipalities services inkind and the community can receive funds for this, those funds can be directed towards the FD.

You can't compare this to going to long island to help staff FD's who have members who are living in hotels and family members.

True, because this is helping your own communities get power back sooner. While it maybe NSE&G responsability if they are not getting it done because of lack of staffing then does this not help get your community back online?

[grumpyff 1,159]

After the way NYSEG treated some departments during the storm, they can go scratch. To put it nicely. If they need traffic control, they can hire people to do it

[ajsbear 11]

Fire Police serve at the discretion of their Chief.

[TCD0415 26]

I personally don't think it was right to ask the VFP to go out and direct traffic for NYSEG. They are making money on the fact that they don't have to hire additional people to complete tasks that they are responsible for performing. If they were short staffed, they they should have "Hired" the Fire Police (or other qualified personnell) to help them direct traffic just as they would have to hire Flaggers on any job. I think that was an abuse of the Volunteer System.

[everybodygoes 331]

How are you going to compare directing traffic to providing a service? Of course you can quantify the level of service and what would people be willing to pay for each level, i.e. a 4 minute response time to a 10 minute one. But you can not put the basic needs of a corporation at any of the same level as us. I know of a lot of FD's that if they were volunteer they would be better off and some vice versa, that wasn't the issue. The issue is generating more exposure for risk of injury and a lack of service if it were needed because they wanted to save some bucks!

[ex-commish 490]

The issue is generating more exposure for risk of injury and a lack of service if it were needed because they wanted to save some bucks!

And that is my concern. If they get hurt they may not be covered under Volunteer Firefighters Benefit Law.

[pasobuff 38]

Technically - the fire department must be activated for the fire police to be activated and have coverage under the vfbl.....you can't 'just' activate fire police - or else if someone is injured they may be denied benefits.

[JM15 386]

The problem I have with this is who has manpower to lend out? Especially on the volunteer side? VFD have been hurting for manpower and members for a long time now and its only getting worse... can we really afford to lend bodies to a commercial company? Could those members be used in another capacity?

[Just a guy 493]

I have nothing to add to the topic at hand but i will give you all a heads up.....

I looked at my con ed bill that came the other day and it seemed very high, especially the cost of electricity supply. I called con ed and asked them what they were prepared to do for me since they did not supply me with electricity for 8 days.

The guy on the phone said that con ed estimated all of the bills this month and that is why the amounts seemed higher. The guy i spoke to allowed me to read the actual meter numbers to him and he was sending me out an adjusted bill that would be considerably lower that the one I had in hand.

The bottom line is that if you have con ed, check your bill and call them, don't let them fleece you for any more money than they already get from us

[helicopper 1,050]

General questions:

Did anyone actually do this for the utilities or was this just a request that was floated to see if assistance was readily available locally?

If a fire department was requested to send fire police and they "activated" them to assist, would they or would they not be covered by their department?

Are fire police also interior firefighters? I was under the impression that most (if not all) were not interior qualified and this was their way of staying involved and remaining active. Would activating the fire police really create a drain on fire suppression personnel?

[everybodygoes 331]

Spoke to someone, apparently the new coordinator is unfamiliar with the way things should work, like not asking guys who work for FREE to work for a corporation that is in business to make MONEY. The issue is that everyone must work together, but when you have guys working for free and guys getting 40 an hour is it fair to the guy who is their for free?

[helicopper 1,050]

Spoke to someone, apparently the new coordinator is unfamiliar with the way things should work, like not asking guys who work for FREE to work for a corporation that is in business to make MONEY. The issue is that everyone must work together, but when you have guys working for free and guys getting 40 an hour is it fair to the guy who is their for free?

Flag people get $40/hour? Where do I sign up?