FDNY's New Helmet Policy

[dillondotcom 16]

Its all about cash. I dont care who sits on these boards and how many different depts and companies have reps sitting in on these commities. In the end fire departments arent hiring as many people as before. That means these companies like morning pride and others werent making as much equipment, and their profits were down. So lets get the NFPA to come up with this new 10 year policy so we can make some money. You know someone got their pockets lined as well to get this to pass.

[JM15 386]

Why is this only becoming an issue now? Am I missing something? This NFPA standard has been around for awhile

[firemoose827 324]

Problem with allowing members to keep helmet is they will still use it, the quartermaster tags the helmet and you are required to have notarized document stating that you will not use helmet again if you purchase it. Leather is out of FDNY as it is no longer listed in official publication as authourized gear. Only the morning pride ben II and the updated benII are helmets allowed. For the record last leather helmets issued by quartermaster was in 1995. Those that opted to purchase one on their own will now have to retire it and return the issued helmet most likely in pristine shape for a new helmet.

It does not matter what profession it is. If the city provided you with the helmet or if they gavr you a allowance to.buy the helmet. It still belongs to the city. If they want to charge you to keep the city.owned equipment then it is their right to do so. If the money goes towards the city's budget that is even better. It was mentioned that the $100 goes to the fdny foundation which is a nonprofit organization that benefits you and your job. Some woild think you would be proud tl support a organization that supports your livelihood and safety.

Being a neutral observer in this discussion I would like to add another thought on the matter. But first, let me get one thing straight; I believe the brothers/sisters in FDNY have EARNED the right to keep their lids based on the work they do day and night for the city, and shouldnt have to pay for them. So the following is just an additional thought to add to the discussion;

I feel its an accountability thing for the city. They probably want to allow their firefighters to keep the lids, but there is the chance the member will put their newly issued helmet on the shelf in the closet and continue to use their old ones. What happens to the city if that/those firefighter(s) get hurt while wearing the old helmet? I feel the city simply wants the paper trail to prove they have 1) Issued the new helmet to the member, and 2) Received cash payment for the old helmet with a receipt in hand and legal jargon plastered all over the page saying the member understands the old helmet they are purchasing is not to be used any more and the city will not be held responsible if they continue to use them and get hurt/killed.

That is the only logical explanation I can think of for the $100 fee to keep the old ones.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Moose,

While you bring up a good point, I would have to assume the logistics people at FDNY require you to sign for your NEW helmet when you get it. How hard could it be to add a few lines to that paperwork and have the member check a box saying they'd like to keep the old helmet and signing after a sentence saying "I recognize my old helmet is no longer in compliance with the FDNY PPE policy yadda-yadda-yadda and I hereby solemnly swear to never wear the old one at work again" or something to that effect?

Free solution, still covers FDNY's a** legally.

[16fire5 693]

How hard could it be to add a few lines to that paperwork and have the member check a box saying they'd like to keep the old helmet and signing after a sentence saying "I recognize my old helmet is no longer in compliance with the FDNY PPE policy yadda-yadda-yadda and I hereby solemnly swear to never wear the old one at work again" or something to that effect?

Free solution, still covers FDNY's a** legally.

Actually to keep it they make you bring a notorized statement to that effect and an $100 check.

[wraftery 1,275]

We all know what this job is about. This is one place that tradition comes into play in a meaningful way, and I don't care to hear from the naysayers and that "200 years of tradition uninterrupted by progress. I'm not talking about tactics and strategy, fog vs. straight, PPA. Those things are not tradition. A firefighter''s helmet is a symbol of who he is or who he was. Whatever style of helmet he wore is not the operative here. The symbolism here is that it is HIS helmet. Wearing this helmet he has accomplished things that the average person could not ever fathom. He has seen life and he has seen death. He calls anyone who wears similar headgear his brother because he knows where that person has been. If a firefighter meets his death on the job, it is his helmet that leads him to his funeral service.

My father passed away, non-LODD, when I was 15 years old. His helmet was solemnly and ceremoniously presented to me by one of his brothers. When my first son got on the job, I presented him with that same helmet. When my second son got on the job, I presented him with my old helmet. Those helmets are kept in places of honor in their homes. Why? Because that helmet says "That's who we are."

Politicians, City Managers, the general public, and unfortunately, some firefighters don't understand the symbolism. As for the rest of us, "You can leave this job, but you can't leave this job behind"

So, then, is that stinky, strange-looking hat worth $100?

[x129K 1,393]

Amen

[everybodygoes 331]

I have still yet to find one incidence of injury caused by a faulty helmet. How many of you knew that a motorcycle helmet should be disposed of after it falls from more than a few feet? How many times have you dropped your helmet at work? Our necks are not designed to absorb impact, not at all, so it doesn't matter what kind of shell, or what kind of suspension you have, none of it will do a lick of good if you are wearing a helmet. Our helmet was designed to keep water off our necks, and heat off our scalp. Only in the 80's did the introduction of an impact cap inside the leather helmets start the transition to this standard we have today. Anything short of a iron beam coming down directly on a leather helmet which your least worry would be an intrusion of the iron in to your skull, but the severe impact to your skull and spine. This is just another hole in the traditions of the greatest job in the world. Pretty soon it will be salad bowls for everyone (helmets worn in california.)

[CBX4627 114]

Only in the 80's did the introduction of an impact cap inside the leather helmets start the transition to this standard we have today.

1985

[firemoose827 324]

Moose,

While you bring up a good point, I would have to assume the logistics people at FDNY require you to sign for your NEW helmet when you get it. How hard could it be to add a few lines to that paperwork and have the member check a box saying they'd like to keep the old helmet and signing after a sentence saying "I recognize my old helmet is no longer in compliance with the FDNY PPE policy yadda-yadda-yadda and I hereby solemnly swear to never wear the old one at work again" or something to that effect?

Free solution, still covers FDNY's a** legally.

I hear ya sage, but weather you or me even want to accept it or not, this world we live in has become too litigious and sue happy people dominate the world. I agree, they could easily just do it that way, but the fact still remains, the city purchased the helmets, they are still technically "city property" even though people like you and I agree it should be the property of the firefighter for all the blood sweat and tears the put into the helmet, but lawyers do not see it that way and unfortunately they have ruined our traditions...sadly.

I say let them have it with a handshake and a promise...but that doesnt fly for anyone that does not wear a helmet like us.

[M' Ave 1,466]

A side note about uniform allowances: Definitely not a perfect system! I am sick of all public service agencies with allowances not enforcing proper uniform replacement rules. There should be no reason I should see veteran memebers with worn leather, gunked up boots, or ill fitting shirts on a regular basis. I realize uniform allowances are seen as a perk, but there must be a middle ground between a little extra cash every year and looking professional.

The uniform allowance is a whopping $450.00 a year. Seeing as we are issued all of our uniforms, money can't be spent to replace items. By the time you pay for alterations to the class A uniform and its dry cleaning, or wash all of your regular stuff each week, that money doesn't go very far. It's no bonus, it's an offset.

Next time you see one of those "veteran members" with his worn leather, gunked up boots, please express your displeasure as a tax payer in person.

[wraftery 1,275]

We all know what this job is about. This is one place that tradition comes into play in a meaningful way, and I don't care to hear from the naysayers and that "200 years of tradition uninterrupted by progress. I'm not talking about tactics and strategy, fog vs. straight, PPA. Those things are not tradition. A firefighter''s helmet is a symbol of who he is or who he was. Whatever style of helmet he wore is not the operative here. The symbolism here is that it is HIS helmet. Wearing this helmet he has accomplished things that the average person could not ever fathom. He has seen life and he has seen death. He calls anyone who wears similar headgear his brother because he knows where that person has been. If a firefighter meets his death on the job, it is his helmet that leads him to his funeral service.

I just got this picture of my newborn grandson. I rest my case.