Question...combination Department?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Would you consider an all volunteer Dept. that has a paid AMT/EMT on duty Mon-Fri 7am to 7pm BUT does not act as a firefighter in any way a combination Dept?

The ambulance does respond to fire calls but the person acts only in an EMS role.

Also this persons job title is AMT/EMT, not firehouseman as some places have.

[wraftery 1,275]

Come on, now. What do you think? Take a guess

[sueg 77]

Our Department runs Fire and EMS, but to help with the day time calls has a paid day crew consisting of a Paramedic and an AEMT or EMT from 6 AM to 6 PM Monday through Friday. They are not considered members of the FD, which means we are not a combination Department. Same with the Departments that staff a paid AEMT or EMT that will respond with a volunteer - they are a separate entity paid by their EMS employer indirectly by the FD or Town or city, but are not considered part of the FD per se - they are employees of the EMS provider.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Come on, now. What do you think? Take a guess

I'm gonna guess most depts. with this sort of system do not consider themselves "combo" in any way.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

What is a firehouseman???

Is this individual paid by the department directly or through some other agency? If they were a contractor I probably wouldn't consider it combination.

[ex-commish 490]

Would you consider an all volunteer Dept. that has a paid AMT/EMT on duty Mon-Fri 7am to 7pm BUT does not act as a firefighter in any way a combination Dept?

The ambulance does respond to fire calls but the person acts only in an EMS role.

Also this persons job title is AMT/EMT, not firehouseman as some places have.

Question is do they work for a private company ( Empress, Transcare, WEMS) or are they being hired directly by the fire department's board of fire commissioners? Makes a difference.

[firecapt32 282]

firehousemen are personel that are paid by the Department or Fire district to work in the stations as what ever?? they can be grass cutters/snow removal men-- work on apparatus and they respond to fires while on duty. This procudure goes around Civil service.

[wraftery 1,275]

firehousemen are personel that are paid by the Department or Fire district to work in the stations as what ever?? they can be grass cutters/snow removal men-- work on apparatus and they respond to fires while on duty. This procudure goes around Civil service.

As you know, Cap, only because Civil Service allows it to happen. Even if they do not fight fires (which they do) it should be a job hired from a list like every other government job.

[firecapt32 282]

house men do not fall into any catagory they arent "firefighters" they are cleaners/maintainence men/gardeners. What it does is make response times much lower so some can say " we arrived on scene with in 3 min" I have spent many hours debating this point on Long Island.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

What is a firehouseman???

Is this individual paid by the department directly or through some other agency? If they were a contractor I probably wouldn't consider it combination.

Thats a sound way to look at it. Thanjks for the post.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

As you know, Cap, only because Civil Service allows it to happen. Even if they do not fight fires (which they do) it should be a job hired from a list like every other government job.

I agree if civil service recognizes this job title it should be a competitive list.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

house men do not fall into any catagory they arent "firefighters" they are cleaners/maintainence men/gardeners. What it does is make response times much lower so some can say " we arrived on scene with in 3 min" I have spent many hours debating this point on Long Island.

You are correct, but they are more then just that in this day and age. 50 years ago they were more like a "custodian" for the firehouse and were hired to maintain the Gamewell alarm system in town. At its peak it had over 250 boxes between the street boxes and Belmont Race Track. The 2 workers would spend countless hours tracing shorts in the system I have been told!

I can only speak for the 4 that work for my district. One is not a firefighter at all. The other 3 only respond on certain alarms. Telephone alarms for fire, serious mva's. The time is logged that they are at the alarm and they pay back that time. Its like they punch out and respond as would someone who works at the cleaners during the day and would leave work and respond to fire calls.

So when one of them is doing the annual mask fit test on a Wednesday night they may not be geting paid for this, they are working on give back time. When they are doing work on our training tower at night they may not be getting paid for this. When they are plowing snow in the winter over night they may not be getting paid for this.

I understand this comes down to a union issue and a working out of title issue and I respect those with that point of view.

One thought on this though. If the bottom line, what we all say and preach...that the customer...the public, they always come first. If thats the case, the public does not care that they respond to alarms, the people taking these jobs dont care that they are working like this and respond to alarms and the fire district that hires them does not mind this system, then that should be the only thing that matters.

Did they find a way around the system instead of hiring someone with the title firefighter I guess they did. But if you look at in terms of a regular "day job" and the employer allows them to leave to answer alarms it can make some sense.

I'm sure we will agree to disagree be safe.

[wraftery 1,275]

Housemen's situation is probably much the same as those communities who "allow" their DPW people to respond to alarms without loss of pay or time owed back

to their employer. The FD is more or less suubsidized by the DPW.