Mutual Aid - Who Do You Call

[wraftery 1,275]

We use companies, engines, trucks, etc. so we have accountability and maintain a span of control.

That's one hell of an important point, Bnechis. Mind if I make it bigger?

We use companies, engines, trucks, etc. so we have accountability

and maintain a span of control.

Thanks

[firemoose827 324]

This is the one that gives us some heartburn when M/A shows up with "extra" helpers. We're fortunate that we can count on most of our M/A companies sending adequate numbers of interior firefighters, but the extra exterior firefighters often don't have an officer and or a true company assignment. 95% of the time this isn't a real issue, they help out where they can, but our fear is that they've never been properly accounted for.

As has been pointed out, and is especially true in this time of austere budgets, having a see of Nomex and shiny reflectors gives the public a vision that we have tons of firefighters basically standing around, leading them to believe staffing cuts are viable. Maybe these exterior folks need some sort of visual indicator that shows they're not fully classified firefighters? I know our State Labor Dept is always interested in how the IC can tell the difference between the various "levels" of FD responders, a real problem in most places where the system allows for less than fully qualified firefighters.

I have heard of the term "Fire Patrol" before, and have heard of this type of unit used in the city before, do they still use them? I remember reading a book about FDNY and reading about the "Fire Patrol" guys that do stuff like salvage work and assisting at scenes with filling bottles, is this accurate?

If so, what about a title like this used for volunteer departments for exterior "helpers", and have "Fire Patrol" or some other tltle on their gear? Maybe even issue them jump suits and work gloves and construction helmets instead of turnouts, so while they are putting ladders up, moving hose around for MPO's or setting up portable tanks, picking up hose, or even doing some salvage work like boarding up windows and doors after the call they are both properly identified and protected for the work they are doing.

My area is a nightmare for mutual aid. I have responded to the firehouse before (in my old dept) for a mutual aid structure fire, and as I am pulling into the station the rescue truck is responding. So I think to myself they have a full crew...wrong. They end up getting asked on the radio by the IC how many interiors they have and the driver says "One, with 3 explorers and 2 fire police.........." Our chief ended up ripping them a new southern region hole and it was mandated thereafter to have a crew of no less than 5 interior qualified firefighters when responding the rescue to a mutual aid fire.

I have seen engines with seating for 5 leave the station with a driver and one firefighter with other firefighters just arriving at the station, instead of waiting they leave...why? Because they are so excited to get to the fire they just go...if anyone wants to know the reason why career guys dont call us for mutual aid there is a prime example, and I think they are 110% correct and support them completely. Instead of using common sense, some of us volunteers let the adrenaline take over and they dont think before reacting.

In my department now, its the same rule; when we are called for manpower mutual aid to a working fire, our rescue is not to leave without at least 4 interior firefighters in the back.

Otherwise, our engine/tanker, and engine are 2 seaters, so they are required to have the driver and at least one member to assist the operator for mutual aid calls, and for our own calls the engine needs an interior firefighter on board.

I see the issue with the career guys calling for mutual aid from other career departments farther away and agree; they are leaving certain departments on their borders alone so they still have someone to call if another fire or major incident should happen...it should be a no brainer and I would actually see it as a complement to the department that they trust us to respond to other fires while they are working the first. You need to think about the big picture. These city departments usually have a lot of calls, if they were to use up all of the surrounding departments for one call, than the initial responding unit to the secondary call would have a big response time which could mean the difference between saving a life or not, or saving the house as well.

We have had this discussion before, and I made a comment about having a career department get together with their neighboring volunteer department for training purposes, so the career chief knows what the volunteer department has as far as trained interior firefighters, and the firefighters all get to work together and know the strengths and weaknesses of each department. But a valid response was made in regard to the career department having to use OT in order to have all members come in for the drill with the volunteer department, and another about insurance coverage. I understand that now, but still feel that maybe the chief from the career department and his on-duty crew could meet with them one night and discuss things, and maybe get a feel for what the volunteer department has to offer? I feel that would be better than just simply giving up on the volunteer departments help alltogether.

Just my thoughts and opinions though. I understand completely the need for trained backup and see why a career brother/sister would be weary about having an unknown volunteer crawling down behind him...will they have his back? Will they know what he will do to attack the fire and know best how to support him? Probably not. I have argued the lack of training in the volunteer side for years now and agree completely that we need a state mandate to increase our requirements for training standards. Until then, I will just continue to train as much as I can.

Stay Safe.

[PVFD233 68]

Fair enough. So the solution would be to have an annual standardized performance report form to the state comptroller. Currently all Counties, Cities, Towns, Villages and Fire Districts do this annually for financial reporting.

If every dept had to list response time, average manpower (day, night, weekday/weekend), interior vs. exterior, annual training, etc. Then the citizens who pay for the service would know what they are paying for and depts could not hide behind false "Hear Say".

Maybe then depts that are sub par will not do everything in their power to avoid change.

I absolutely agree with the standardization of the Fire Service.

As for change, I have seen a lot of good change throughout, some better than others. Some change that some want might not be the change needed though. All about the good ole words communication and understanding, not assumptions.