A few words about gas safety. New Milford, Ct fatal propane explosion

[50-65 205]

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/08/31/gas-leak-blows-up-home-in-connecticut-killing-anthony-fratino/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl10%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D200172

There have been several gas related explosions lately. i would like to take this moment to talk about some basic safety. For you, your families, friends, neighbors,etc.

Keep in mind that propane is heavier than air and will tend to settle in low areas, basements, crawl spaces, along floors, etc.

Natural gas is lighter than air and will collect along ceilings, in attics, etc.

Both will collect in areas with little to no ventilation,

IF YOU SMELL GAS:

Leave the building without turning any lights on or off.

Do not use the phone in the affected structure.

If it is safe to do so, turn of the gas supply at the source For natural gas, the meter. For propane, turn off the tank.

Call 911 AND your gas supplier.

DO NOT attempt to make repairs yourself.

Call a QUALIFIED technician.

I am always amazed at some of the "homeowner" repairs and connections. How they don't blow themselves up is beyond me.

Just because your buddy once helped a plumber put in a sink, doesn't mean he is qualified to connect your water heater. And just because your neighbor is a plumber, does not mean he is qualified to do gas plumbing and repair.

[JFLYNN 681]

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/08/31/gas-leak-blows-up-home-in-connecticut-killing-anthony-fratino/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl10%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D200172

There have been several gas related explosions lately. i would like to take this moment to talk about some basic safety. For you, your families, friends, neighbors,etc.

Keep in mind that propane is heavier than air and will tend to settle in low areas, basements, crawl spaces, along floors, etc.

Natural gas is lighter than air and will collect along ceilings, in attics, etc.

Both will collect in areas with little to no ventilation,

IF YOU SMELL GAS:

Leave the building without turning any lights on or off.

Do not use the phone in the affected structure.

If it is safe to do so, turn of the gas supply at the source For natural gas, the meter. For propane, turn off the tank.

Call 911 AND your gas supplier.

DO NOT attempt to make repairs yourself.

Call a QUALIFIED technician.

I am always amazed at some of the "homeowner" repairs and connections. How they don't blow themselves up is beyond me.

Just because your buddy once helped a plumber put in a sink, doesn't mean he is qualified to connect your water heater. And just because your neighbor is a plumber, does not mean he is qualified to do gas plumbing and repair.

Great post. This is good, basic, practical information. One point I would take issue with and maybe will serve as a conversation starter is your statement that natural gas will "collect" along ceilings, in attics, etc. It has been my understanding and experience that natural gas is only slightly lighter that air and very diffuse. Thus, particularly in a private home, it dissipates quickly and generally doesn't "collect" in high spots.

[Remember585 815]

IF YOU SMELL GAS:

Leave the building without turning any lights on or off.

Do not use the phone in the affected structure.

If it is safe to do so, turn of the gas supply at the source For natural gas, the meter. For propane, turn off the tank.

Call 911 AND your gas supplier.

DO NOT attempt to make repairs yourself.

Call a QUALIFIED technician.

Great information, but I would personally suggest that one should call 911 BEFORE attempting to turn off the source. That's just my opinion - I am a proponent of getting resources going sooner than later.

Thanks for posting this - very good information!

[50-65 205]

JFLYNN - - Thanks for that info. I'm not sure what the specific gravity of natural gas is, just that it is lighter than air and that it will accumulate in a residence to an explosive level. (West Haverstraw, NY 1/16/12, Corning,NY 8/3/12)

Propane is 1.5 times heavier than air. It's LEL is 2.19%. With an expansion of liquid to vapor of 270 times, a 100 lb cylinder (24 gallons if not overfilled) is more than enough to level a 2 story house.

585 -- As long as you can call 911 from a cell phone or neighbors phone OUTSIDE and AWAY from the affected structure, that's fine. It only takes a few seconds to turn off a tank. Of course, if it's the tank that's leaking, that's a whole other scenario.

[50-65 205]

Also, it amazes me that other trades don't have to comply with NFPA 54 and 58 (National Fuel Gas Code). I don't know how many times I've had to move tanks because the homeowner decided to get central a/c and the condensor is next to my tanks.

[Bnechis 3,961]

I'm not sure what the specific gravity of natural gas is, just that it is lighter than air and that it will accumulate in a residence to an explosive level.

0.55 to 0.7 depending on the mix (note natural gas is not one gas, but a blend of them).

Propane is 1.5 times heavier than air. It's LEL is 2.19%. With an expansion of liquid to vapor of 270 times, a 100 lb cylinder (24 gallons if not overfilled) is more than enough to level a 2 story house.

Many years ago we did the math on a 25 lb (BBQ) cylinder and determined it had the equivilance on a number of sticks of dynamite. I do not remember the formula, but was shocked that it could also wipe out a home (and home many home owners know it).

[wraftery 1,275]

Most flammable gases are heavier than air, but there are a common few that are lighter than air. Does anybody know the acronym "HA HA MICE"?

I don't want to give you the answer just yet since it might be a good discussion topic.

[wraftery 1,275]

Great post. This is good, basic, practical information. One point I would take issue with and maybe will serve as a conversation starter is your statement that natural gas will "collect" along ceilings, in attics, etc. It has been my understanding and experience that natural gas is only slightly lighter that air and very diffuse. Thus, particularly in a private home, it dissipates quickly and generally doesn't "collect" in high spots.

This is a good point. If you are looking for gas with a meter, try the corners of ceilings. This is also true for CO meters. Also, HVAC units or forced air heating units will put these gases into some "unscientific" places. Remember that fire is a science, firefighting is an art.

Sorry, the cybergods only posted half my post so this is the do-over

[TRUCK6018 50]

Most flammable gases are heavier than air, but there are a common few that are lighter than air. Does anybody know the acronym "HA HA MICE"?

I don't want to give you the answer just yet since it might be a good discussion topic.

HA HA MICE is kind of out dated. There's a newer acromin "4H MEDIC ANNA".

A few things to ad to the OP:

1. If you have to go into a structure with a flamible gas leak and you're going to use hand lights, turn them on BEFORE entering the structure. If you turn them on while in the structure you may have just created an ignition source.

2. As stated the LEL (lower explosive limit) of propane is 2.2% (ok, 2.19). The UEL (upper explosive limit) 9.5% If you get a reading above 9.5% does that mean it can't ignite? At that moment, no it can't as the fuel mixure will be too rich. Once you start ventalating is when you have to be carefull. Once the gas starts to disipate it the ratio will drop with in explosive limits and then there's the potential of getting ugly.

3. in the event of a flamible gas fire, don't try to put it out with out the gas being secured first. If there is a gas leak and it's burning it's mildly safer than extinguishing the fire and now just having a gas leak. If it's a tank leaking and you can't turn off the gas, just cool off the tank with the hose stream to prevent any chance of BLEVE.

4. If you get to a report of a gas odor and the occupant says "I've been smelling the gas for the last week but have been too busy to call", just smack him a few times for me. This really irritated me when it happened in the middle of the night.

[Bnechis 3,961]

1. If you have to go into a structure with a flamible gas leak and you're going to use hand lights, turn them on BEFORE entering the structure. If you turn them on while in the structure you may have just created an ignition source.

Maybe depts. should not be using equipment that is not intrinsically safe

3. in the event of a flamible gas fire, don't try to put it out with out the gas being secured first. If there is a gas leak and it's burning it's mildl......... If it's a tank leaking and you can't turn off the gas, just cool off the tank with the hose stream to prevent any chance of BLEVE.

This is a rather simplistic concept and has killed firefighters who did not understand the concept of BLEVE or the flows required to prevent it (in cases that are preventable).

[wraftery 1,275]

HA HA MICE is kind of out dated. There's a newer acromin "4H MEDIC ANNA".

A few things to ad to the OP:

1. If you have to go into a structure with a flamible gas leak and you're going to use hand lights, turn them on BEFORE entering the structure. If you turn them on while in the structure you may have just created an ignition source.

2. As stated the LEL (lower explosive limit) of propane is 2.2% (ok, 2.19). The UEL (upper explosive limit) 9.5% If you get a reading above 9.5% does that mean it can't ignite? At that moment, no it can't as the fuel mixure will be too rich. Once you start ventalating is when you have to be carefull. Once the gas starts to disipate it the ratio will drop with in explosive limits and then there's the potential of getting ugly.

3. in the event of a flamible gas fire, don't try to put it out with out the gas being secured first. If there is a gas leak and it's burning it's mildly safer than extinguishing the fire and now just having a gas leak. If it's a tank leaking and you can't turn off the gas, just cool off the tank with the hose stream to prevent any chance of BLEVE.

4. If you get to a report of a gas odor and the occupant says "I've been smelling the gas for the last week but have been too busy to call", just smack him a few times for me. This really irritated me when it happened in the middle of the night.

Good post and thanks for the acronym update. A word about acronyms: They are "whatever works for you." If you have trouble remembering an acronym because it's too long, shorten it or change it so you will remember as much as possible. Promotional exams always had a question about color codes for sprinkler heads, something that most of us rarely commit to memory.

But jeez, for a couple of points on the exam, it was pretty easy to make up my own acronym. Ugly Women's Beds Rarely Get Overworked. It means nothing to anyone but me.

Yeah, I'm a little older, but I remember my acronyms, and I will still remember them at 0200 in the dead of winter, on scene with a major leak going on. That's the time your acronym comes into play, and you have to be right.

For you boaters out there, I still use "Even red nuns have odd black cans" even though odd numbered buoys have not been painted black since someplace in the 70's.

Also, feel free to say (to yourself, of course) "the rabbit comes out of the hole...etc" when tying that old knot that will get you to the ground a lot faster than the follow-thru 8, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

I have nothing against the new, but the old sometimes comes in handy.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Ugly Women's Beds Rarely Get Overworked. It means nothing to anyone but me.

Unpainted, White, Blue, Red, Green & Orange....your right it mens nothing to the rest of us............

[50-65 205]

This is a rather simplistic concept and has killed firefighters who did not understand the concept of BLEVE or the flows required to prevent it (in cases that are preventable).

Read http://www.csb.gov/a...inal_Herrig.pdf. It is a common misconception that the ends of a tank are the weakest.

I originally was posting info for the "untrained" persons and basic info for your friends/family. But I certainly have no objection to getting into discussions on fire ground tactics.

If you get on scene of a (propane) tank involved in a fire and the relief valve is operating, be extremely cautious as a BLEVE could be imminent. It all depends on how much was in the tank, how much product is left, how long it has been exposed to fire, and a host of unknowns.

Probably the most "famous" incident to spur the training of industry personnel and responders was the Ghent, WV explosion (http://www.csb.gov/i...ail.aspx?SID=10 ) Which killed 3 ff (1 died of complications of injuries some 2 1/2 years later) and 2 technicians.

BTW, the longest distance of a propane tank to travel from a BLEVE was about 3/4 of a mile. It involved a railcar.

(3640 ft, Murdoch, Illinois, 1983 http://flashovertv.firerescue1.com/Clip.aspx?key=C78C0C6BE771A800 )

Edited September 2, 2012 by 50-65

[wraftery 1,275]

Unpainted, White, Blue, Red, Green & Orange....your right it mens nothing to the rest of us............

You are right. The only reason I made it up was for the tests. AND the tests don't necessarily have anything to do with the job. And don't forget Kingman, AZ and White Plains, NY when you are talking about flying propane tanks.

Westchester county has a great simulator. Great only if you understand what the noises and appearance of flames mean, why you are cooling where you are cooling, and so on. The instructor has to use his controller so that the sequence of events is also a plausible one. If not, you spent a couple of hours happily putting the wet stuff on the red stuff without a clue what you are supposed to accomplish. If this is so, you are the guy the bleve wants to kill.

[Bnechis 3,961]

And don't forget Kingman, AZ and White Plains, NY when you are talking about flying propane tanks.

While the W.P. Tank flew, it was not a BLEVE. It was a mechanical tank rupture followed by ignition.

[wraftery 1,275]

Barry gimme a break. I said "flying" and never mentioned BLEVE. You're the one who said BLEVE. That's why they wanted to put you in the back of the truck for the hurricane relief trip. I stuck up for you, remember?

And in the Grant Av neighborhood, they weren't interested in whether it was a BLEVE or a bridge abutment that put that tank in their back yard.