Yonkers Major Water Main Break 8-27 Discussion

[bigfitz2004 19]

is Yonkers 484.71250 still working

[NOZ45ZLE 42]

is Yonkers 484.71250 still working

Yes

[M' Ave 1,466]

Divison 7 is responding to yonkers.

What for?

[38ff 250]

Helicopter. It is the last line of the LOHUD article that is posted in the first few posts. I'm on a mobile device, so I cant cut and paste.

Edited: LOHUD has updated the article, and that line is no longer there. The line was something to the effect of Yonkers has asked for mutal aid from volunteer fire companies for thier tankers or the like.

Edited August 28, 2012 by 38ff

[gpeifer 89]

No career departments within a reasonable distance have tankers. No departments were ruled out. The departments are selected so they don't "strip down" the non-hydranted areas of Westchester. Often, the decision is left up to 60 Control, and all YFD asks for is the number of tankers they wanted.

Guy, thanks for the info! What is the expected duration of this?

Seth,

This operation is expected to go through the night and most likely into tomorrow.

[Anesti 329]

What for?

Went to station 4 to meet up with battalion 1 from yonkers.

[Ladder44 73]

Funny you should say that.... I received an Inquiry call here in danbury tonight from the Yonkers FD asking if we had portable tanks available to send there should they need them..

Bernie Meehan

Asst Fire Chief

Danbury CT

You guys have 2 tankers in the city correct? i saw the pictures of the 2 being used on the rail car fire the other day, send em tanker task force 83

[ryguy12fd 33]

another option a lot of people overlook is to call the state and request the national guard. a lot of the support units have water tenders. after a state of emergency has been called that resource is is basically unlimited until the situation is resolved.

[CHIEFPHIL 90]

You guys have 2 tankers in the city correct? i saw the pictures of the 2 being used on the rail car fire the other day, send em tanker task force 83

6 Tankers

10's-11's - 12's & 13's have one and 14's has 2

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Helicopter. It is the last line of the LOHUD article that is posted in the first few posts. I'm on a mobile device, so I cant cut and paste.

Edited: LOHUD has updated the article, and that line is no longer there. The line was something to the effect of Yonkers has asked for mutal aid from volunteer fire companies for thier tankers or the like.

I would have taken that sentence (based off of your paraphrasing since I did not see the article) that the reporter was simply saying that Yonkers has brought in Mutual Aid, which was coincidentally volunteer. It is true, Yonkers did ask for mutual aid from volunteers, since they operate the closest tankers.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I guess Paid depts tankers arent good enough to help, according to the last line of the article...

Not to get into a pissing match or turn this into a career/volly issue (as I don't think that was your intent), but....

Although the tankers are not from career agencies, I am sure that the members of the YFD are grateful for their assistance.

I don't think this is the fist time that tankers from vol FDs have been called into Yonkers.

Hopefully they can get the break repaired ASAP, but looks as though they have a real mess on their hands.

Stay safe

[38ff 250]

No, it wasnt my intent at all. Perhaps it was just poorly worded sentence and just got me at a bad time.

I wish the people of Yonkers well and that thye get this fixed ASAP.

[JetPhoto 626]

Good thing nothing else major happened.

But as a training discussion held a couple months ago regarding a massive apartment fire with MCI. This type of incident while it seems simple to handle "Lets call in mutual aid tankers" is not always as simple as it sounds. It's a very good thing it wasn't hot & humid yesterday. Several major facility's such as hospitals, nursing homes & jails need to be considered in this type of man made or natural disaster.

Is your community prepared for EVERYTHING? Most are not simply because they can't see the "What if" possibility

[peterose313 345]

This is just an idea i thought of but what do you all think of YFD getting in touch with the group running the ex FDNY fireboat John J. Harvey to pump from the river.....did a great job on 9/11 coming out of retirement that day. Might we worth the phone call?

YFD has a boat, which can pump up to 2,000 gpm, on standby. FDNY put the offer out to deploy their boats if necessary as well.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Went to station 4 to meet up with battalion 1 from yonkers.

Gotcha, I'm more curious as to what services were requested or offered. Were they looking to relay pump from Bronx hydrants? Did they want the satellite? They had a serious logistical issue and I'm wondering how they were thinking about solving it.

YFD has a boat, which can pump up to 2,000 gpm, on standby. FDNY put the offer out to deploy their boats if necessary as well.

Had Marine 1 stationed a boat on the yonkers waterfront, they could have provided 50,000 gpm to the west side. I know they carry huge spools of 5" and are intended to supplement the water system in the event of a similar emergency in NYC. How far can the new vessels pump inland before the pressure becomes ineffective? Perhaps someone with more marine company knowledge has the answer.

[Bull McCaffrey 162]

another option a lot of people overlook is to call the state and request the national guard. a lot of the support units have water tenders. after a state of emergency has been called that resource is is basically unlimited until the situation is resolved.

Guys it's a simple water main break not the apocalypse. Tankers, National Guard, spaceships! Sheesh lol

[38ff 250]

The NYNG doesnt have that many Water tankers or STMFT's in it's MTOE.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Besides, I don't think the Governor is going to declare a State of Emergency for a water main break. That's a lot of money to throw at a localized event like that, especially right away.

Kudos to Yonkers for reaching out to some resources that you wouldn't necessarily think of for something like that, like MTA and ConEd. Plenty of organizations other than fire departments have water tankers, and reaching out to them can get you the resources you need without depleting the emergency response resources of the county.

This is why emergency preparedness is important. I know a lot of fire, police and EMS agencies have very little to do with their local OEM and Emergency Preparedness planners, which can be the fault of one or both sides of that communication. But sitting down and having a couple of meetings can make life so much easier when the fecal material hits the oscillating climate control device.

Edited August 28, 2012 by SageVigiles

[JFLYNN 681]

Gotcha, I'm more curious as to what services were requested or offered. Were they looking to relay pump from Bronx hydrants? Did they want the satellite? They had a serious logistical issue and I'm wondering how they were thinking about solving it.

Had Marine 1 stationed a boat on the yonkers waterfront, they could have provided 50,000 gpm to the west side. I know they carry huge spools of 5" and are intended to supplement the water system in the event of a similar emergency in NYC. How far can the new vessels pump inland before the pressure becomes ineffective? Perhaps someone with more marine company knowledge has the answer.

Good observations and questions. The EOC was opened early in this incident and a Unified Command was established. Internally, our 5,000 gallon tanker was deployed, members were recalled to man reserve LDH Engines, and to serve as a Water Supply Chief, man our fireboat, as well as other critical functions. WCDES, NYSHHS / OEM, and FDNY were all contacted early on and resources were put in place. Tankers were provided by MTA, Con Ed, Yonkers Contracting, and portable tanks were provided by I believe, Banksville, and another department in Westchester. Other than pre-planning, and providing the portable tanks, no outside Fire Departments were needed to operate within the city. The FDNY Fireboats were identified as a potential resource, and we were told they would be available if needed. Pre-staging FDNY boat or boats in Yonkers was discussed but decided against. Practical distances that water could be pumped from the river were calculated. Relay operations were preplanned, and a YFD Task Water Supply Task Force has been standing by since yestaerday afternoon. FDNY Division 7 as well as FDNY Dispatchers were very helpful in pre-planning Satelitte Task Forces which would be able to quickly deploy into Yonkers if needed.

It is interesting to remember that Chief Bill Fitz, who had the foresight to secure a surplus tanker several years ago and to cheaply have it painted and modified for just such an event as this, was mocked and belittled for his efforts. Once again, his and other YFD members foresight and pre-planning proved to be accurate.

Lots of other deails I am not mentioning here. Kudos to our members for coming in quickly when recalled and doing whatever was asked, as well as to the many cooperating individuals and agencies who offered help and advice.

YFD, as is the case for many other departments and agencies, has many dedicated and knowledgeable people "behind the scenes", who are constantly planning for not only routine incidents, but also those that may only happen once in a lifetime, if at all. It is a tough thing to do these days, as those who hold the purse strings rarely recognize the necessity of dedicating adequate resources to planning for events which may never happen. It is also always interesting to be involved in these type incidents, and to recognize the surprise on people's faces, including at times our own members, to fiind out that we have anticipated such events and we have resources available and plans ready to implement. The response to this event could have been much better, for sure, but all things considered, I was happy with what I saw.

This is just a quick note to give some perspective, leaving out lots of details and probably with some mistakes. I probably will not have time to posta again for a few days or so, so sorry if I don't respond to questions or commens about this.

[JM15 386]

Good observations and questions. The EOC was opened early in this incident and a Unified Command was established. Internally, our 5,000 gallon tanker was deployed, members were recalled to man reserve LDH Engines, and to serve as a Water Supply Chief, man our fireboat, as well as other critical functions. WCDES, NYSHHS / OEM, and FDNY were all contacted early on and resources were put in place. Tankers were provided by MTA, Con Ed, Yonkers Contracting, and portable tanks were provided by I believe, Banksville, and another department in Westchester. Other than pre-planning, and providing the portable tanks, no outside Fire Departments were needed to operate within the city. The FDNY Fireboats were identified as a potential resource, and we were told they would be available if needed. Pre-staging FDNY boat or boats in Yonkers was discussed but decided against. Practical distances that water could be pumped from the river were calculated. Relay operations were preplanned, and a YFD Task Water Supply Task Force has been standing by since yestaerday afternoon. FDNY Division 7 as well as FDNY Dispatchers were very helpful in pre-planning Satelitte Task Forces which would be able to quickly deploy into Yonkers if needed.

It is interesting to remember that Chief Bill Fitz, who had the foresight to secure a surplus tanker several years ago and to cheaply have it painted and modified for just such an event as this, was mocked and belittled for his efforts. Once again, his and other YFD members foresight and pre-planning proved to be accurate.

Lots of other deails I am not mentioning here. Kudos to our members for coming in quickly when recalled and doing whatever was asked, as well as to the many cooperating individuals and agencies who offered help and advice.

YFD, as is the case for many other departments and agencies, has many dedicated and knowledgeable people "behind the scenes", who are constantly planning for not only routine incidents, but also those that may only happen once in a lifetime, if at all. It is a tough thing to do these days, as those who hold the purse strings rarely recognize the necessity of dedicating adequate resources to planning for events which may never happen. It is also always interesting to be involved in these type incidents, and to recognize the surprise on people's faces, including at times our own members, to fiind out that we have anticipated such events and we have resources available and plans ready to implement. The response to this event could have been much better, for sure, but all things considered, I was happy with what I saw.

This is just a quick note to give some perspective, leaving out lots of details and probably with some mistakes. I probably will not have time to posta again for a few days or so, so sorry if I don't respond to questions or commens about this.

Thanks for the insight!!

[M' Ave 1,466]

Good observations and questions. The EOC was opened early in this incident and a Unified Command was established. Internally, our 5,000 gallon tanker was deployed, members were recalled to man reserve LDH Engines, and to serve as a Water Supply Chief, man our fireboat, as well as other critical functions. WCDES, NYSHHS / OEM, and FDNY were all contacted early on and resources were put in place. Tankers were provided by MTA, Con Ed, Yonkers Contracting, and portable tanks were provided by I believe, Banksville, and another department in Westchester. Other than pre-planning, and providing the portable tanks, no outside Fire Departments were needed to operate within the city. The FDNY Fireboats were identified as a potential resource, and we were told they would be available if needed. Pre-staging FDNY boat or boats in Yonkers was discussed but decided against. Practical distances that water could be pumped from the river were calculated. Relay operations were preplanned, and a YFD Task Water Supply Task Force has been standing by since yestaerday afternoon. FDNY Division 7 as well as FDNY Dispatchers were very helpful in pre-planning Satelitte Task Forces which would be able to quickly deploy into Yonkers if needed.

It is interesting to remember that Chief Bill Fitz, who had the foresight to secure a surplus tanker several years ago and to cheaply have it painted and modified for just such an event as this, was mocked and belittled for his efforts. Once again, his and other YFD members foresight and pre-planning proved to be accurate.

Lots of other deails I am not mentioning here. Kudos to our members for coming in quickly when recalled and doing whatever was asked, as well as to the many cooperating individuals and agencies who offered help and advice.

YFD, as is the case for many other departments and agencies, has many dedicated and knowledgeable people "behind the scenes", who are constantly planning for not only routine incidents, but also those that may only happen once in a lifetime, if at all. It is a tough thing to do these days, as those who hold the purse strings rarely recognize the necessity of dedicating adequate resources to planning for events which may never happen. It is also always interesting to be involved in these type incidents, and to recognize the surprise on people's faces, including at times our own members, to fiind out that we have anticipated such events and we have resources available and plans ready to implement. The response to this event could have been much better, for sure, but all things considered, I was happy with what I saw.

This is just a quick note to give some perspective, leaving out lots of details and probably with some mistakes. I probably will not have time to posta again for a few days or so, so sorry if I don't respond to questions or commens about this.

Thanks for that summery. It's a complex problem and it's interesting to hear how it was mitigated. If you do have a moment to post some more specifics, I'm sure we'd like to read it.

[Mac8146 61]

FDNY approved in advance a mutual aid request if necessary to Yonkers. A task force of 3 Engines and a Satelite Unit would respond to Yonkers in the affected area and supply water most likely from the NYC hydrants near Yonkers depending on location of fire. Was notified that this would happen from E-81 FDNY quarters as the meeting spot for units assigned. As of now it has not been needed or requested.

[Disaster_Guy 96]

Just some details I thought you guys would be interested in, mostly per Yonkers OEM Twitter:

Yonkers EOC was initially established on a Level 2 Activation at approximately 1:45 pm for all OEM and Auxiliary Police personnel. Late that evening, the EOC mobilization was at Level 1, and all officials were on night duty.

The New York State Office of Emergency Management (SEMO) is providing assistance and some resources to the five water distribution points. See video of one of the SEMO containers here from 1:41-1:46. The City of Yonkers has provided 8,000 bottles of water to 17 senior/nursing homes. For residents going to the water distribution points they have to bring their own containers and they are to receive only one gallon per person.

"Residents can call the City’s hotline at 914-377-HELP (4357) with any questions regarding the water main break." The hotline was established late evening yesterday.

Also this thread gives a nice timeline: http://nycfire.net/f...p?topic=18305.0

On a different note, here is an update (5pm) from the Yonkers PD: http://www.citizenob...t.html?id=27949

According to most recent (5:30 pm) version of LoHud article, water restoration is scheduled for late tonight. Boil advisory remains in effect until at least Thursday. Road closures remain, possible one Parkway lane open for tomorrow morning. Water distribution remains until problem fixed.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Larchmont_Boy

[PEMO3 523]

Gotcha, I'm more curious as to what services were requested or offered. Were they looking to relay pump from Bronx hydrants? Did they want the satellite? They had a serious logistical issue and I'm wondering how they were thinking about solving it.

They were pumping from the NYC hydrant system in to the Yonkers hydrant system at 261 & Riverdale Ave (outside of the College of Mt St Vincent.)

[peterose313 345]

News 12 Westchester: Crews working to fix a massive water main off the Saw Mill River Parkway in Yonkers have hit a stumbling block. Officials say the broken pipe is between 80 and 120 years old and isn't a perfect circle. This means the new pipe can't fit perfectly with the old one and is need of special parts. A boil water advisory is still in effect for Yonkers. http://www.news12.co...&news_type=news

Edited August 28, 2012 by peterose313

[Disaster_Guy 96]

The Yonkers Daily Voice says that Spano said earlier this afternoon that if all goes well, full water service should be restored by 10pm tonight.

A press conference is scheduled for 8:30pm tonight. Stay tuned for updates then...

Pictures here, here, and here.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Larchmont_Boy

[sympathomedic 383]

Two questions:

1. What is up with the YFD fireboat that has been on blocks at the New Rochelle Marina? I guess there is more than one?

2. If it had to happen, could a fireboat(s) pump INTO hydrants near the river and charge the mains that way? Do you need health dept approval for that, and if you do it, when all is fixed, how do you de-Hudson an entire city's water system? I figure a boat puts out an ungodly amount of pressure, but if you are pumping up a hill (like up to St Joes from the water front- think Vark St) you will keep bursting your hoses near the river as the boats put out the high pressure needed to get the water up a big hill.

[PEMO3 523]

2. If it had to happen, could a fireboat(s) pump INTO hydrants near the river and charge the mains that way? Do you need health dept approval for that, and if you do it, when all is fixed, how do you de-Hudson an entire city's water system? I figure a boat puts out an ungodly amount of pressure, but if you are pumping up a hill (like up to St Joes from the water front- think Vark St) you will keep bursting your hoses near the river as the boats put out the high pressure needed to get the water up a big hill.

Best solution: LDH with inline pumping - a lost art.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Two questions:

1. What is up with the YFD fireboat that has been on blocks at the New Rochelle Marina? I guess there is more than one?

2. If it had to happen, could a fireboat(s) pump INTO hydrants near the river and charge the mains that way? Do you need health dept approval for that, and if you do it, when all is fixed, how do you de-Hudson an entire city's water system?

There is more than 1. The one in NR is DOA

If you pump into the system you will contaminate the drinking water system. The DOH would never allow it

[peterose313 345]

Parkways reopened, but southwest Yonkers stays under water alert

http://www.lohud.com/article/20120829/NEWS02/308290070/Parkways-reopened-southwest-Yonkers-stays-under-water-alert?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Frontpage