Tanker specs...

[38ff 250]

All,

Does anyone have any advice on spec’ing out a tanker? We are in the WAY WAY early stages of looking at specing one, and will be visiting depts to see what they have that works and maybe doesn’t work as the planned it. We are looking at a commercial cab, tandem axle, Hale QMax-XS pump, side and rear dumps, square tanker Perhaps 2500-3000 gallons. Equipment to be carried portable pond, suction, a few hundred feet of LDH, 2 crosslays, portable pump, etc.

We don’t need a 6 man cab for a engine/pumper type of deal. This tanker would be for use out of the water district, as a “rolls right behind the first due engine for calls out of the water district” type of response to buy more time.

All thoughts appreciated.

[Patch6713 18]

Visit area departments like you said to see what they did, how they like it, what they don't like, and what they wish they had on it. You can find out a lot of info from different departments so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.

[38ff 250]

Thats what we are doing,I figured I tap the knowledge base here also.

[pump305 53]

Look at Frieghtliner or International cab as they both have wonderful turning radious and dont forget Peterbilt 330 cab. Go woth big horse power for many reasons and keep the wheel base modest. In other word do not go to short than you will have over weight issues and not to long with turning issues. Try to keep the tank as high if not a little lower than the cab this will help with over all balance. Do not forget about front and side baffels this helps side to side front to back movement and is also a NFPA standard. Important, Remember front and rear axle weight!!!! Have a Jake brake to help with braking. If your dept has grass or brush fires what about a pump and roll system. IE: secondary pump like a 125 or 150 pump. Front and side sprayers work well on grass and brush fires doing line work from the road. A reel line with at least 350ft works well on auto fires ect. Just a few ideas that has worked well for us. Good luck!

[38ff 250]

More great info. No need for pump and roll. Lookng at International 3 man cab. Dual rear axle for braking, as we have a very hilly district. Jake brake goes on all our apparatus, and will on this. The 2 crosslays will make it into an engine into a pinch. We will specifiy all the baffling possible.

A long time ago, I returning from a drill in a rural part of Vermont, and we came across a car fire, but the tanker I was in did not have a stitch of hose on it. We sat there and watched it burn until the engine came a minute or 2 later. It's a crappy feeling being on a "fire truck" and watching a fire burn because you dont have hose.....

Edited August 24, 2012 by 38ff

[NoWestFF 21]

I suggest you speak with representatives of the Somers and South Salem fire departments. Somers bought a new tanker on a commercial cab about five years ago and South Salem put a new tanker into service last year. Granted the South Salem tanker is on a custom chassis, but the thought process about speccing a tanker and any lessons learned from the procurement process (there definitely are some) should help you.

[38ff 250]

I am already in contact with a Commissioner from Somers about thier Tanker . (It's my old dept)

Keep the suggestions coming!

[grumpyff 1,159]

Reach out to Putnam Lake FD. Their 23-4-1 is a 2008 Sterling/US Tanker. 3000 gallons with a 1500gpm pump. 2 cross lays. plus compartments. Here is a link: http://plfd.org/Appa.../23-4-1new.html

Edited August 24, 2012 by grumpyff

[Bugler83 7]

Dept: Croton

Tanker 10

Chassis & Body (or Aerial) Manufacturer and model: Seagrave/Seagrave

Pump size, tank size (water/foam), aerial type & length: 1500 GPM, 3000 Gallons, seating for 4

Notes: Replace 1990 Tanker

[PVFD113 6]

Unionvale in Dutchess, Continental Village in Putnam/Westchester have US Tankers similar to that

[james mcginty 2]

try to stay away from air ride suspension very soft ride makes some drivers nervous

rides like a tour bus and sways on turns

[Bnechis 3,961]

Visit area departments like you said to see what they did, how they like it, what they don't like, and what they wish they had on it. You can find out a lot of info from different departments so you don't have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.

This an some of the other info is rather useful, but I see major limitations in much of what has been posted. Who bought what brand is general low on my list for specing (it is high for awarding a bid....quality, customer service, etc.)

1st one must look at your current and future operations. Are you going to use it as a nurse tanker, a shuttle tanker or both? I left out pumper or attack tanker (as its clear from what you wrote that thats not the direction your looking at). Will your operations or community change in the next 20+ years?

Since this is a critical part of your depts water supply plan for the non-hydrant area you need to consider how it will fit in with your mutual aid tankers. Standardization of fill and dump times is critical to success on the fire ground and getting credit under ISO.

The size of the tank is what most ff's think of, but the most important issue is the tanker GPM delivery during shuttles. I have seen tankers that can not unload quickly enough so they get sent home. I have also seen tankers that can not unload up to 25% of the load.

Side dumps can be at the front, middle or rear of each side and there are issues with each. Filling can be done from above or below and depending on how you set it up can require only 1 FF or 5. I'd rather have those other 4 at the fire.

Breaking and handling issues are critical with tankers and there are many systems to consider. Jakes, Telmas and transmition retarders (or a combination). Manuverability is also critical as turning around is common.

Most depts. buy either a replacement of what they have or what they see someone else has and rarely consider the performance needs. If you do not spec the performance (particularly the fill and dump times) then if you find your tanker is slow, you are stuck with it.

Good luck

[Atv300 69]

Now my department dose not have a tanker but a few departments around us have tankers and some of then have been designed very well. There are a few very important things to keep in mind with a tanker as some one said dump times and fill times so look at doing large size dumps off the sides and rear also should look at going with a larger fill then the standard 3" intakes at the rear, 4" or 5" to bump the standard 1000GPM fill rate which makes for better use of all that water. I saw you were looking into possible using the tanker for fire fighting duties if need be make sure you spec a large 4" or dual 3" tank to pump lines that's a big one. You do not want to have 3000 gals on the truck and only be able to get 500-700 GPMs out of your tank water. A good web site/ company to go to for water ops is http://www.gotbigwater.com here is hope the link to one of the test they did http://www.gotbigwater.com/content/data/file/Tank%20to%20Pump%20Line%20Flow%20Tests%20-Strafford%20NH%20101809.pdf. Great bunch of people bringing some new and tried and true ideas to moving water. Also before I forget make sure the dumps are installed as low in the tank as possible I have seen first hand in a tanker that has that problem and about a quarter of there tank or better becomes trapped water unusable at dump sites. And go with a 4" high flow discharge off the pump so you can get better then what you pay for also if you poke around on gotbigwater they have test data to show getting over 2000 GPMs out of a 1500GPM pump and data on different size high flow discharges so the little details make the best out of your spec even going from 3" to 4" on the high flow discharge makes a huge difference.

As far as the chassis I would say grab the standard on NFPA for fire apparatus to see what the latest compliance features needed on the tanker such as stability control yes I am sure for the right price you can put it on any chassis you want if you find one with it being an option can save lots of money on one end to open up room for other options. So power plant is next I'd say cummins in the 450-500HP range you can govern or gear down the speed after but without the ponies hills will kill you. I will say my neighbors to the north of me Wassaic have a great tanker from what i have seen at training's and fires with its dump time and fill time being extremely good. Here is there web site to look around and see some shots and some info where it was made http://www.wassaicfirerescue.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=1790013.

As far as some extras porta tank wise i'd say look around at the different manufactures to see what you like the best. My advice get one with handles and also go bigger then your tank size ie. 3000 gal tank look closer to 3500 drop tank size. Make sure you have places for hard suction personnely I am all about more then 20ft of suction on everything so that's up to you guys 20 ft minimum i'd say 30ft depending on your mutual-aid just for porta tank ops and setting up jet siphons. Speaking of jet siphons put at least 2 on the tanker I don't know how many times I have been looking for more to expand how many drop tanks are on the ground and its up to you what kind you go with we run kotchek low level strainers with it built in. Other goodies you'll have to determine what is needed.

[TAPSJ 30]

East Fishkill has 3 refurbished from USTanker and New Hackensack is a USTanker...LaGrange has 2 I don't recall where they got them from, but all 5 are driver and one firefighter with 3,000 gallons of water aboard. I like them, but that is my opinion. Good luck on your new rig when you finally get it.

Thomas

[conman 40]

If your interested, you guys can take a run up to me and have a look at our tanker. She's an oldie but she almost fits your description to a tee. Feel free to pm me and we can try to set something up.