Hatzolah EMS members ticketed by Woodridge Police at emergency call

[JetPhoto 626]

Here we go again

Hatzolah EMS members ticketed by Woodridge Police at emergency call

VILLAGE OF WOODRIDGE – Two Hatzolah emergency services members who responded to a call for an individual in diabetic shock at Woodridge Village Hall Wednesday night were ticketed by the police chief for using red emergency lights as they pulled up to the scene. State law allows the use of those lights when EMS personnel are responding to an emergency.

The Jewish community from Sullivan County to Brooklyn is outraged by the incident with many expressing their views on blogs.

http://www.midhudson...ge1-10Aug12.htm

[Avon Rob 40]

Question, were the red lights on the ambulance or private cars? We all know what is legal and isn't with the use of lights.

[everybodygoes 331]

Being a jew myself I can speak freely. These individuals in almost EVERY aspect take advantage of the Earth. From the blatant violation of the sanctity of marriage to the flagrant misuse of the vehicle and traffic laws they just rape and pillage. I am so happy that I live in Putnam far from the filth that they call home in many towns in Orange and Rockland. I feel for all of you that must deal with these people with such a feel of entitlement. They use their supposed block voting to scare every single politician in to succumbing to their needs. We need someone with a set to just tell them to STFU get off welfare and stop playing games. All we need is a law stating that two people living together legally, and verified through surveillance, which I am sure we can get volunteers to do, shall not be the beneficiary of social services.

Rant Over

[peterose313 345]

The tickets have since been dismissed. Not much of a story there

[everybodygoes 331]

Shocking, no one is willing to stand up, its sickening the rest of the public abides by the laws and gets screwed and they get it dismissed!

[Disaster_Guy 96]

http://www.ems1.com/ems-advocacy/articles/1326711-Volunteer-EMS-members-ticketed-responding-to-call/

A cop allegedly told Hatzolah members that while he knew they were legally allowed to use red lights when responding, the police commissioner on scene forced him to write them tickets.

"Eyewitnesses allege that Kantrowitz was on the scene 'screaming in a highly unprofessional manner' to have them all ticketed, according to the report."

[16fire5 693]

I have often complained about this orginazation mostly because they really fail to work as part of the system. They basically do as they please and seem to get away with everything they do.

BUT it is hard to see what they did wrong here. They were dispatched to a legitimate emergency. They like a lot of other volunteer corps are equipping personal vehicles to meet the required standard which allows them to respond with red lights and sirens. Maybe this is past frustration coming through or we have only part of the story. Personally I feel for the cop put in a bad situation here.

[10512 214]

One poster stated the tickets were dismissed.

I wonder; were the tickets dismissed because they were issued in error? I doubt it, they were probably dismissed because because politics got involved. Anyone who has ever dealt with them knows what a difficult group they are to deal with. The do not know how to get along with outside agencies and will not listen to any outside agency.

To anyone who has dealt with them, this is a familiar story.

[Steve 78]

What is the law , pertaining to having red lights and sirens in a POV.

Awhile back I witnessed a MVA in Rockland, right outside New Square.

Within moments like six members of Hatzolah showed up in there POV with red lights and sirens blaring.

The way these guys responded up to the scene, you would think they were responding to a 10:13, it was scary.

[x129K 1,393]

scary.

That about sums up Hatzolah. period.

[OoO 24]

NYS DOH: Authorizing Private Vehicles as EASV's (Use of Red Lights & Sirens)

Assuming the organization follows these guidelines, they are legally authorized to run red lights and sirens in their POVs.

[10512 214]

Assuming the organization follows these guidelines, they are legally authorized to run red lights and sirens in their POVs.

You used the term "follows these guidelines". I think that this group missed that lesson plan during training.

I think I can safely say that the only guidelines they follow are thier own guidelines.

Anyone familiar with them will probably say the same.

Dealing with this group, regardless if it is in an emergency service type incident or not, is an eye-opening experience.

Edited August 10, 2012 by 10512

[JM15 386]

Anyone have a link to this organizations website? I would love to learn more about them.

[INIT915 1,119]

I'm fairly sure we had this very discussion at some point over the past few years. Legally speaking, they can possess and use RLS.

The manner in which they use them, in terms of due regards for other motorists, well, that's a different story. (Believe me, I know, I live 10 minutes from KJ.)

[grumpyff 1,159]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah

not one organization to have a website. there are several groups using the name. they pretty much all act the same

[EXDC203 38]

You cant stop them.....neither can the law, they have the money & the politicians on their side!!!! They dont have to pay tolls, obey laws...........

[LTNRFD 266]

We have not determined what vehicle was being operated. Were they ticketed for operating lights and siren on their organizations ambulance, or were they ticketed for operating their own POV? The fact that 2 were ticketed would lead me to believe they were operating POV. I can't see how 2 people can be ticketed for operating an ambulance. The summons is issued to the operator not the entire crew.

[50-65 205]

They were dispatched to a legitimate emergency.

Were they? Does the Village of Woodridge have Hatzolah as their EMS provider or was this simply another case of a private "citizen" calling their own private ambulance?

I don't think they call 911 when they have an emergency. I believe they call their own private dispatch.

I responded to the Thruway for an MVA. A suburban with about 9 or 10 of them in it rolled down an embankment. They refused our services, refused the services of the legitimately dispatched ambulances and waited for Hatzolah to come to Newburgh from KJ

[v85 212]

Larchmont_Boy said that a police commissioner on scene ordered the ticket written. I don't know how it is in Sullivan County, but in Orange County a police commissioner is a civilian oversight position, like a fire commissioner, and has NO authority on a scene.

[jack10562 414]

A civilian commissioner may in fact have no authority on a scene, but if an employee operating under their direction is ordered to do his or her bidding, it had better happen, or said employee will invariably face a very uncomfortable future.

[INIT915 1,119]

Were they? Does the Village of Woodridge have Hatzolah as their EMS provider or was this simply another case of a private "citizen" calling their own private ambulance?

I don't think they call 911 when they have an emergency. I believe they call their own private dispatch.

I responded to the Thruway for an MVA. A suburban with about 9 or 10 of them in it rolled down an embankment. They refused our services, refused the services of the legitimately dispatched ambulances and waited for Hatzolah to come to Newburgh from KJ

Whether we agree with those choices or not it is their right. The article stated it was a diabetic emergency which typically is a legitimate emergency.

[INIT915 1,119]

Larchmont_Boy said that a police commissioner on scene ordered the ticket written. I don't know how it is in Sullivan County, but in Orange County a police commissioner is a civilian oversight position, like a fire commissioner, and has NO authority on a scene.

To say a Police Commissioner has "NO" authority is overly broad and factually incorrect in many agencies. If your comparing a Police Commissioner to a Board of Fire Commissioners of a VFD, that's apples and oranges.

[jr51070 7]

Not all EMT and emergency personel are permitted red lights. As a matter of fact, in most jurisdictions most have green lights except Paramedics a few select chose for whatever reasons, such as rank. Did they have the proper authority and credentials? I have to say that I see a lot of them running around with red lights in their vehicles and I do wonder how they all get such authority/permission to have them. I see abuse of the red lights by them on a regular basis on Rt. 17 to bypass traffic congestion and to get others to move over so they can speed past.

[10512 214]

I can see that some posters have not dealt with them. They are asking questions regarding NYS VTL law, Commissioners authority, dispatching and so on. Any legit group would never cause problems with those issues, everyone else, (except maybe Aviation FD), understands them,. These groups operate outside any of those guidelines. The rules do not apply to them. Rules are an afterthought.. Lights ans sirens, how many POV with light packages respond across the GWB and TZB in heavy traffic? I am sure if you sat there long enough you would see the same vehicles at the same time of day each day.

If you have ever had to work with them, you would notice they act as if you are not there, even though you are standing next to them. It is as if they are operating in a different dimension.

Coordinate with an IC or a dispatcher? No way, they do not tell anyone they are responding, they just show up and do not check in.

I have not dealt with them in a number of years, but I will assume not much has changed.

Edited August 11, 2012 by 10512

[INIT915 1,119]

Not all EMT and emergency personel are permitted red lights.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, an agency CAN, if they so choose, issue RLS to EVERY EMT and Medic in the agency. Is it good policy, no, but from a strictly legal standpoint, it can be done.

[NJMedic 96]

Certainly no expert in the New York Motor Vehicle Code but I've seen POVs of Hatzolah members with NYS tags that has "ambulance" stamped on them.

Web site of the Union County, NJ Hatzalah: http://www.hatzalahofunioncounty.org/

We have two large cemtaries in our area the cater to the Jewish faith, Floral Park and Washington. From Wikipedia; A Jewish cemetery in South Brunswick Township, New Jersey, where many prominent Hassidic Rabbis are buried, including Rabbi Shlomo Halberstam and Rabbi Naftali Halberstam of Bobov, Rabbi Samuel Hirsch Horowitz of Spinka, Rabbi Moses Josef Rubin of Cimpulung and Rabbi Yitzchok Issac Langner the Stretiner Rebbe of New York City. The cemetery contains many holocaust survivors including Gisella (Roth) Green, Irving (Israel) Green, Ruchma Lesser & sister Rivka Gutter, and many others from Poland, Hungary and Germany. One of the many societies represented is the first wodzislaw society.

Across the street from the Floral Park Cemetery is the Washington Cemetery. Washington Cemetery is a separate cemetery from the Floral Park Cemetery, but both are under the same management. Contrary to popular belief, many of the prominent Rabbis said to be buried in Floral Park Cemetery are actually buried in Washington Cemetery. Leiby Kletzky, 8, who was murdered and dismembered in Brooklyn was also buried here.

A important burial here brings out several thousand of people and burias take place 24 hours a day in keeping wit Jewish load. Hatzolahs usually send several ambulances to provide EMS. Little to no woman are involved or attend the burial and there are certainly no woman involved in Hatzolah. Any woman on our units are given the stink eye.

Remember the old Hebrew National Hot Dog commericals that ended "we answered to a higher authority" . Same thing can be said of Hatzolah

Edited August 11, 2012 by NJMedic

[FDNY 10-75 640]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, an agency CAN, if they so choose, issue RLS to EVERY EMT and Medic in the agency. Is it good policy, no, but from a strictly legal standpoint, it can be done.

Only if the vehicles are certified as EASV's per NYS V&TL.

[tbendick 27]

As Eli points out the must be EASV and meet part 800. This also includes the name on the vehicle

You can get waivers so I don't know what they have or have not done.

[INIT915 1,119]

Only if the vehicles are certified as EASV's per NYS V&TL.

And, they are. As I said, I live near KJ and they all have the Part 800 stickers. I see them daily.

[Goose 188]

My question is in what capacity were they operating? Unfortunately, i have had a handful of less than pleasant encounters with this agency - each of those times they were never the primary response agency for the respective municipality. Essentially, they showed up because they knew where the more religious jewish members of the community resided and crossed that with intercepted radio dispatches. They are pretty sneaky in how they do business - i recall having to hump gear a block or so because they tried to bar me from entering a scene. Its no secret that these people are not out to service the general public - crown heights proved that to me. So, are they contracted with the municipality in question to prove ambulance service or was this a private call?

And, as a small side bar, i would love to see them ticketed more - the way they operate their ambulances and personal vehicles is generally with impunity and no due regard for anyone's safety.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Goose