Beacon wants to hear views before vote on paid fire chief

[JetPhoto 626]

A big problem is the city has to approve the appointment of a chief who has been nominated and in the past people have been discriminated against due to personality conflicts.

Beacon wants to hear views before vote on paid fire chief

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20120724/NEWS01/307240013/beacon-fire-chief-paid?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|PoughkeepsieJournal.com

[dadbo46 50]

Doesn't the Chief have to be selected from a Civil Service list ?

[JetPhoto 626]

Doesn't the Chief have to be selected from a Civil Service list ?

Yes,

[INIT915 1,119]

Yes,

But he or she could be appointed provisionally, pending an upcoming test, no?

[efdcapt115 1,511]

But he or she could be appointed provisionally, pending an upcoming test, no?

Yes again.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I mean really, is this an issue? I think its responsible of the town to say "we want to hear from the taxpayers" and get a formal presentation of cost vs. benefit before making a decision like this. Not saying its a bad idea to have a paid Chief, but its a good idea to have a conversation first.

Edited July 24, 2012 by SageVigiles

[16fire5 693]

Do we know for sure the new position has to be Civil Service? It seems many times that these positions end up being at will-meaning that they serve at the pleasure of the City Manager or Council. Plus if they have to write it into the charter they will probably write it to favor them. It sounds like they already have canidates which makes me wonder how they advertised the job.

[dadbo46 50]

Do we know for sure the new position has to be Civil Service? It seems many times that these positions end up being at will-meaning that they serve at the pleasure of the City Manager or Council. Plus if they have to write it into the charter they will probably write it to favor them. It sounds like they already have canidates which makes me wonder how they advertised the job.

I believe that the job title of "Fire Chief" is a civil service classified position. If, however, the municipality decides to create the position of, say. "Fire Commissioner" or "Fire Director" and state that the position is appointed, well, then I guess that they can do that.

Lots of variables here.

[spike2231 38]

larchmont village did the same kind of thing a few years back now the dept is lead by the career capt with a volunteer asst chief

[JetPhoto 626]

Beacon tried to push it through but was called out that it needed to have a public hearing before changing the city charter.

In addition to the paid Chief, they also want to reduce staffing and response. They have had for decades 3 paid firefighters on during a shift they man 2 engines and a truck as drivers. They want to reduce this to 1 & 1. They average about 1,800 calls a year about half are EMS assist (http://www.beaconfd.org/stats.shtml). The city has 3 engines, 1 truck, 1 rescue & 1 inflatable boat. No volunteers are allowed to operate the apparatus, whenever the truck goes to use the bucket can only be run by a paid firefighter. When the boat (or I should say over sized raft) goes in the water only a paid firefighter can drive it.

The city for years has had a paid Lt., recently a paid fire administrator and now they want the paid chief. The reduction in engines in service (manned with a driver) will most likely have a negative impact on the ISO ratings which means higher insurance premiums. This will most likely mean more mutual aid to the city from the volunteer neighbors and less mutual aid in return.

To speculate that some shady deals are being made would not be out of the question.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Oh, I didn't realize Beacon had a career department in the first place... strange.

[truck45 1]

Combination Dept. Like Peekskill and Middletown.

And reducing staff is not true.

Edited July 25, 2012 by truck45

[16fire5 693]

Combination Dept. Like Peekskill and Middletown.

And reducing staff is not true.

Good to hear they are not reducing.

[sklov5949 23]

Combination Dept. Like Peekskill and Middletown.

And reducing staff is not true.

They don't exactly say they're reducing staffing, but the paragraph in the Charter that says there shall be 12 Career FF with 3 on duty at all times is taken out it, it only leaves one to wonder what the city is up too. Also taken out of the Charter is only career staff is to operate the equipment. Something is not adding up. Too many what ifs and interpretations.

[Bnechis 3,961]

They don't exactly say they're reducing staffing, but the paragraph in the Charter that says there shall be 12 Career FF with 3 on duty at all times is taken out it, it only leaves one to wonder what the city is up too. Also taken out of the Charter is only career staff is to operate the equipment. Something is not adding up. Too many what ifs and interpretations.

Those do lead to lots of questions. But there are also some interesting concepts buried in there.

First, it is very poor practice to put both the staffing level and the equipment operation in the charter. The charter is a basic overview of the local government and should basically list the following: The City shall provide a fire dept. that is responsable for fire suppression, EMS (or 1st response) and what ever else it is responsible for. It may include that the chief is elected, appointed or hired from civil service list and thats about it.

The number of career staff is usually dictated in the annual budget, sometimes in the union contract, but the only reason its in the charter is to preven the expansion of the career staff. These are often written when a dept. changes from vol to comb. and its because the volunteers, or general public or the politicians are afraid that this will expand and being in the charter prevents it without a public vote. While it is desirable to control the growth, it may also be a managment issue of what is the least expensive way to provide the service. If you are running 12FF in 4 shifts with 3 as minimum manning, you need to pay OT, everytime a member is on vacation, sick, jury duty, military leave, etc. Many depts have determined it is cheaper to hire additional employees and reduce the OT.

The driver issue is also an operational issue and the charter is micro managing the dept. It is not uncommon for the labor/managment contract to include that. It is much easier to negotiate a change if needed than to have to ask the public if it is ok for someone to drive.

Both items can be controlled, but it is almost like having the US Constitution saying how many ship the navy will maintain and who can drive the humvees (only sargents and up or would that be down?

[JetPhoto 626]

Update - the city held a meeting last night and it appears regardless of what was said the city council is doing what they want.

Beacon plans to pay fire chief

More than 20 apply; salary near $100,000

The city will hire a paid, full-time fire chief at a salary of nearly $100,000 a year after enacting a law that allows it to change the city charter.

More than 20 applications have already been submitted for the new fire chief position.

Beacon Mayor Randy Casale said a committee is being formed to narrow down the applicants.

Some firefighters expressed concern that changing the charter will reduce fire services in Beacon, including the number of trucks used on calls.

Several residents questioned why the future fire chief can live up to 30 miles from Beacon.

http://www.poughkeep...&nclick_check=1

[x4093k 654]

Wow.. 30 miles out of their city/town.. Better have a fast car... (only kidding..)

Edited August 8, 2012 by x4093k

[2231* 20]

Wow.. 30 miles out of their city/town.. Better have a fast car... (only kidding..)

and no traffic along the way.. someone good better be on one of the rigs that gets assigned to it, because the chief wil be way behind, traveling from another county or the other end.. when i was dept they only allowed us to go 10 miles out of our jurisdiction. Strange how much has changed.. including the chief cars too. We had highways and they gave us 1 lightbar and a bubble light on the back end of the roof. Nowadays they give you a christmas tree.. anyhow thats another story..

[wraftery 1,275]

Those do lead to lots of questions. But there are also some interesting concepts buried in there.

First, it is very poor practice to put both the staffing level and the equipment operation in the charter. The charter is a basic overview of the local government and should basically list the following: The City shall provide a fire dept. that is responsable for fire suppression, EMS (or 1st response) and what ever else it is responsible for. It may include that the chief is elected, appointed or hired from civil service list and thats about it.

The number of career staff is usually dictated in the annual budget, sometimes in the union contract, but the only reason its in the charter is to preven the expansion of the career staff. These are often written when a dept. changes from vol to comb. and its because the volunteers, or general public or the politicians are afraid that this will expand and being in the charter prevents it without a public vote. While it is desirable to control the growth, it may also be a managment issue of what is the least expensive way to provide the service. If you are running 12FF in 4 shifts with 3 as minimum manning, you need to pay OT, everytime a member is on vacation, sick, jury duty, military leave, etc. Many depts have determined it is cheaper to hire additional employees and reduce the OT.

The driver issue is also an operational issue and the charter is micro managing the dept. It is not uncommon for the labor/managment contract to include that. It is much easier to negotiate a change if needed than to have to ask the public if it is ok for someone to drive.

Both items can be controlled, but it is almost like having the US Constitution saying how many ship the navy will maintain and who can drive the humvees (only sargents and up or would that be down?

Barry, I love it! I believe you just gave them the reasons for havibg a paid chief...to correct all of the above.

[x129K 1,393]

I thought SVB was gonna be made Chief?

[JetPhoto 626]

I thought SVB was gonna be made Chief?

PLEASE NO!

[x129K 1,393]

Really?

Thought he was well respected?

He has always been great to me, but it has been many years since I have seen him.

[x4093k 654]

For a [poor] example..

Like today(or yesterday, whenever) someone fell off of something, and units got o/s quickly and determined Medevac would be needed, so they launched it very quickly. But, if a chief signed on and did not get on location for several minutes, the patient could worsen very quickly. A chief that lives in town or the surrounding towns/cities would probably work, but 30 miles away? much can change in the time it takes for that chief to arrive on location.

I hope this makes sense, and you folks get where I am going with this.

[JM15 386]

For a [poor] example..

Like today(or yesterday, whenever) someone fell off of something, and units got o/s quickly and determined Medevac would be needed, so they launched it very quickly. But, if a chief signed on and did not get on location for several minutes, the patient could worsen very quickly. A chief that lives in town or the surrounding towns/cities would probably work, but 30 miles away? much can change in the time it takes for that chief to arrive on location.

I hope this makes sense, and you folks get where I am going with this.

Why would you need a Chief to call for a medevac? Any competent EMT or Medic should be able to asses the patient and their injuries. I don't see your correlation here?

[x4093k 654]

Why would you need a Chief to call for a medevac? Any competent EMT or Medic should be able to asses the patient and their injuries. I don't see your correlation here?

Thats true. That was just an example. Having a chief travel 10+ minutes to get to the scene would more then likely run into a problem down the road, in a few different ways.

[16fire5 693]

Are there no Assistant Chiefs? How does it work now the Chief is on duty 24/7/365 and never goes on vacation? Sounds a little blown out of proportion. I'm sure the Career Chief will cover the day shifts when volunteer chiefs would be at work. If it is that bad now hopefully the new guy can pull the place together so the department doesn't fall apart if he's gone.

Relax I don't think this is the case but that is how some of you are making it sound.

Good luck to the new chief whoever it ends up being sounds like he or she will need it.

[truck45 1]

SVB was one of the best chiefs we ever had. Great fire commander, teacher. A no nonsene ,straight to the point kind of person. AND he cared about his men.

[INIT915 1,119]

For a [poor] example..

Like today(or yesterday, whenever) someone fell off of something, and units got o/s quickly and determined Medevac would be needed, so they launched it very quickly. But, if a chief signed on and did not get on location for several minutes, the patient could worsen very quickly. A chief that lives in town or the surrounding towns/cities would probably work, but 30 miles away? much can change in the time it takes for that chief to arrive on location.

I hope this makes sense, and you folks get where I am going with this.

I actually don't get where your going. That generally isn't how these scenario's play out.