(Bidding) Village of Wappingers, NY Ladder

[jfmuller 23]

County: Dutchess

City/Town/Municipality/Dept: Village of Wappingers, Falls W.T. Garner Engine

Unit designation/identifier: Ladder 68-45

Chassis & Body (or Aerial) Manufacturer and model: Not Available

Pump size, tank size (water/foam), aerial type & length: 100' Rear Mount Aerial Platform with 2000gpm/300gallon

Estimated delivery date: Not Available

Status: Out for Bid

Notes: Replacing 1990 Simon Duplex 68-45

Legal notice posted in Southern Dutchess News and Poughkeepsie Journal

July 16, 2012 LEGAL NOTICE NOTICE TO BIDDERS NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that bids are sought and requested by the Fire Department, Village of Wappingers Falls, N.Y. for: One (1) Custom Heavy Duty 100' Rear Mount Aerial Plat- form Apparatus With 2000 GPM Pump and 300 Gallons of Water. Trade in credit of exist- ing 1990 Simon- Duplex required . Specifica- tions of Simon - Duplex are in bid package. Bid packages are avail- able at the Village Hall 2628 South Ave. Wap- pingers Falls NY 12590 845-297-8773 Ext. 1. Packages are $25.00 non-refundable. Sealed bids will be opened 10 AM , August 17, 2012. Simon - Duplex is sold as is, and may be seen Monday through Friday, 7 A.M. to 2:30 P.M. at the Wm. T. Garner Fire House , 25 West Acade- my Street, appointment required. John M. Karge Village Clerk Village of Wappingers Falls 5194

[JetPhoto 626]

Long overdue

[x129K 1,393]

Long overdue

While I agree...this may be a great time to look at the big picture...New Hamburg is literally right down the street with a badass tower ladder....Hughsonville is not far with another tower ladder....PECO is a bit further with a quint/stick....Rombout is further yet, but still closer than most with another tower ladder...and then there is Croft with a stick....let's face it - southern Dutchess is nicely covered with truck companies.

While it is needed, is it really NEEDED?

Don't get me wrong - I know a bunch of guys from Wappingers - and they are among the finest to serve. Some truly great firemen come from down there.

Edited July 19, 2012 by x129K

[xfirefighter484x 234]

While I agree...this may be a great time to look at the big picture...New Hamburg is literally right down the street with a badass tower ladder....Hughsonville is not far with another tower ladder....PECO is a bit further with a quint/stick....Rombout is further yet, but still closer than most with another tower ladder...and then there is Croft with a stick....let's face it - southern Dutchess is nicely covered with truck companies.

While it is needed, is it really NEEDED?

Don't get me wrong - I know a bunch of guys from Wappingers - and they are among the finest to serve. Some truly great firemen come from down there.

Dan, I unequivocally agree! Well said!!!!

[JetPhoto 626]

Sad part Nate & Dan is that they had a truck long before most.

Your argument is the same reason why my chiefs turned down a ladder from a developer that wanted to build 3 - 4 story apartment buildings. We are surrounded by them, Beacon, Rombout, Fishkill, Hughsonville, Wappinger's, New Hamburg and across the river there are a few within 10 minutes of us.

[Ladder44 73]

While I agree...this may be a great time to look at the big picture...New Hamburg is literally right down the street with a badass tower ladder....Hughsonville is not far with another tower ladder....PECO is a bit further with a quint/stick....Rombout is further yet, but still closer than most with another tower ladder...and then there is Croft with a stick....let's face it - southern Dutchess is nicely covered with truck companies.

While it is needed, is it really NEEDED?

Don't get me wrong - I know a bunch of guys from Wappingers - and they are among the finest to serve. Some truly great firemen come from down there.

Sad part Nate & Dan is that they had a truck long before most.

Your argument is the same reason why my chiefs turned down a ladder from a developer that wanted to build 3 - 4 story apartment buildings. We are surrounded by them, Beacon, Rombout, Fishkill, Hughsonville, Wappinger's, New Hamburg and across the river there are a few within 10 minutes of us.

With that said i agree from a budget perspective but couldnt you say this is the same thing as why career FD are having trouble adding or atleast keeping their current staffing levels? "Well the neighbors to the north or south or wherever have plenty of guys or they also have career guys at the station, i'll only take them less than 10 mins to get to the scene". Mutal aid seem to be used as a crutch when money is an issue deal. Can you really guarantee that ladder will get out the door and to the scene in time, nevermind physically to the front of the building with lines being laid ect

Edited July 20, 2012 by Ladder44

[x4093k 654]

With that said i agree from a budget perspective but couldnt you say this is the same thing as why career FD are having trouble adding or atleast keeping their current staffing levels? "Well the neighbors to the north or south or wherever have plenty of guys or they also have career guys at the station, i'll only take them less than 10 mins to get to the scene". Mutal aid seem to be used as a crutch when money is an issue deal. Can you really guarantee that ladder will get out the door and to the scene in time, nevermind physically to the front of the building with lines being laid ect

Nicely put. That reminded me of that house fire in Port Chester a few weeks ago. Ang put up a photo of lines stretched across the street and a police cruiser was parked in the middle of it all, if he was needed someplace else quick he would have never gotten by in time.

I wasn't planning on posting, but this makes up for a "like". Apparently I can't like anymore posts today

Edited July 20, 2012 by x4093k

[BFD1054 1,552]

With that said i agree from a budget perspective but couldnt you say this is the same thing as why career FD are having trouble adding or atleast keeping their current staffing levels? "Well the neighbors to the north or south or wherever have plenty of guys or they also have career guys at the station, i'll only take them less than 10 mins to get to the scene". Mutal aid seem to be used as a crutch when money is an issue deal. Can you really guarantee that ladder will get out the door and to the scene in time, nevermind physically to the front of the building with lines being laid ect

I totally see where you're coming from. However, and I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but can Wappingers GUARANTEE that their own Truck will get out? Again, not meant to be a dig at Wappingers or any other Dept, just a little reality check.

Personally, if an agency says they need something and can validate why, then I'm all for it.

Edited July 20, 2012 by BFD1054

[tonyc856 16]

As stated before, Wappinger's did have a ladder before the rest. More so you need to remember, that ladder builds are a bit different. It has to do with where the ladder is mounted, front or rear. The neighboring FD's have mid-mounted ladders. Because of the lay-out of the village, with the narrow streets, homes built on hills, etc. A rear mounted ladder is more important.

[fireguy30 13]

Ok why is it every time someone puts on here about someone getting a new toy, everyone says kinda how they don't need it or there are 4-6 around them? Here it is, Wappingers is looking into a new truck good for them. Long over due. the same s*** happened when Hughsonville got their rescue, everyone said 'oh, they don't need it, its too big, its too much money'. If every dept. in southern Dutchess wants their own ladder who cares? Its not my dept. its not yours. If they all wanna be self sufficient, good for them. Just seems like every time someone gets a new toy everyone has something to say thats not good. And as for can they guarantee they will get it out, can any one guarantee anyone will get all there trucks out? No, they can't unless your paid. I know of a fire in southern duchess where a capt. of dept. A had to go to dept B and drive there rig to there fire. Jetphoto you know what I'm talking about. Everyone in southern duchess works very good with each other. As for what I know, the truck is very much needed. Also to BFD1054 if you didn't know 68-45 is out first on 98% of there calls most of the time, and due to the way it was set up also can act as a first due.

Edited July 27, 2012 by xfirefighter484x
Added Punctuation to Fix the Run On Sentence/Paragraph

[x129K 1,393]

Thanks - thats clears it all up. My bad.

[210 91]

Thanks - thats clears it all up. My bad.

LOL. Take a breath.

[INIT915 1,119]

ok y is it every time someone puts on here about someone getting a new toy everyone says kinda how they don't need it or there are 4-6 around them here it is wappingers is looking into a new truck good for them long over due the same s*** happened when Hughsonville got there rescue everyone said o they don't need it its to big its too much money if every dept. in southern duchess wants there own ladder who cares its not my dept. its not yours if they all wanna be self sufficient good for them just seems like every time someone gets a new toy everyone has something to say thats not good and as for can they guarantee they will get it out can any one guarantee anyone will get all there trucks out no they can't unless your paid i know of a fire in southern duchess where a capt. of dept. A had to go to dept B and drive there rig to there fire jet photo you know what I'm talking about everyone in southern duchess works very good with each other as for what i know the truck is very much need and also to BFD1054 if you didn't know 68-45 is out first on 98% of there calls most of the time and due to the way it was set up also can act as a first due

So, run with me on this. If EVERY agency in Southern Dutchess County wanted (6) Engines, (3) Ladders, (2) Heavy Rescues, (3) Tankers, etc., is that fine? That would make for some absurd number of apparatus in the region. Dozens and dozens of units, many of which cannot be staffed during the day (or in some cases even at night.) Think of what you could do with the savings? It would be millions of dollars.

[JetPhoto 626]

So, run with me on this. If EVERY agency in Southern Dutchess County wanted (6) Engines, (3) Ladders, (2) Heavy Rescues, (3) Tankers, etc., is that fine? That would make for some absurd number of apparatus in the region. Dozens and dozens of units, many of which cannot be staffed during the day (or in some cases even at night.) Think of what you could do with the savings? It would be millions of dollars.

Ultimately yes, each department can do what they want & buy what they want..

NOW is it smart to do that? No. Would it be a waste of taxpayer money? Yes

Everyone should carefully review their wants & needs. Buy what you need and not just what you want.

This is one reason my fire department (Chelsea) did not buy a ladder and we can justify it. Not to mention we may not always have the staffing to use it.

Wappingers does not have an excessive amount of equipment between both stations, but what they have is needed to cover their territory

[IzzyEng4 427]

Who cares!!!! If a department wants to run its own aerial truck, rescue or what ever they have the right too. Remember one thing, it all ends when Mr. & Mrs. Taxpayer start asking "Why is our (insert the vehicle) keeps going to the other town instead of protecting our own?" why do we have to rely on mutual aid on every call??

(*)

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Ok why is it every time someone puts on here about someone getting a new toy, everyone says kinda how they don't need it or there are 4-6 around them?

Welcome to the internet. People can say what they want/think. Also, what is wrong with voicing an opinion outside of a home department? Maybe the fact IS, that not all the facts are there, and people are speaking on what IS there (knowledge of pre-existing apparatus in surrounding areas).

[x4093k 654]

Who cares!!!! If a department wants to run its own aerial truck, rescue or what ever they have the right too.

(*)

Exactly!! They wouldn't be getting it if they really didn't "Need" it.. obviously, nothing nice is EVER said about a department getting a new rig.

[16fire5 693]

It is worth discussing. Since they now have tower ladders on both sides of them maybe a 75 foot single rear axle quint would better serve their tight streets. Remember most fires are residential and most (85%) of civilian fire fatalities are in residential buildings. Maybe the smaller aerial might better suit their bread and butter fires and the towers could come in behind them for the larger and commercial structures. I think a 75' aerial (especially one where the waterway pins back) would be more versitale for the bread an butter private dwelling fire. Maybe they already had the discussion.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Ok why is it every time someone puts on here about someone getting a new toy, good for them........(cut content)...... Just seems like every time someone gets a new toy everyone has something to say thats not good.

Respectfully fireguy,

I don't know much about that neck of the woods you guys are talking about, so I won't comment on it. However, I take issue with ANY firefighter referring to fire apparatus as "toys." I recently rode with another firefighter who referred to his apparatus as I believe he said "a shiny red toy."

This isn't a lecture or anything. Fire apparatus are there for a deadly serious purpose. Those ladders, aerials, pumps and hoses might be the tools needed to pull a seriously burned victim from a raging fire, or get water on a fire to hopefully prevent that victim from burning to death, or dying of asphyxiation from toxic, choking, burning plastics, wood, or a thousand other things.

Firefighters definitely take pride in their apparatus. We love to wash them, test them and keep them ready for those times of need. We love to operate them.

Let's just keep our eyes on the objective of the mission. And it is serious, it is deadly, it is why we are/were there. To answer the call to action.

I don't think you'll hear too many cops refer to their weaponry or rigs as toys. Why should we be any different?

Have a safe day Bro.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

I own retired fire apparatus that had there day of firefighting, they are toys and big boy toys at that . Listen to efdcapt115 he is one smart man and a plus to this site . [did I do ok capt ? ]

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I own retired fire apparatus that had there day of firefighting, they are toys and big boy toys at that . Listen to efdcapt115 he is one smart man and a plus to this site . [did I do ok capt ? ]

Ang, you always add a different dynamic to any conversation. I'd like to return the compliment to you, and tell you that you are right again. Retired apparatus I guess does fall into the category of "big boy toys." lol

[JM15 386]

It is worth discussing. Since they now have tower ladders on both sides of them maybe a 75 foot single rear axle quint would better serve their tight streets. Remember most fires are residential and most (85%) of civilian fire fatalities are in residential buildings. Maybe the smaller aerial might better suit their bread and butter fires and the towers could come in behind them for the larger and commercial structures. I think a 75' aerial (especially one where the waterway pins back) would be more versitale for the bread an butter private dwelling fire. Maybe they already had the discussion.

This is a great point that shouldn't be over looked. Having a different type of ladder could come in very beneficial. Using Somers for example we have a Tower Ladder and a 75 foot quint. The quint can obviously get into different places that the TL can't. In our case its very beneficial in the tight clusters of Heritage Hills.. It all depends on your district but having what sounds like a lot of TL's nearby it might be a good idea.

[Newburgher 241]

Not being too familiar with the operations and manpower availability of that area, other than opservations driving through, I think they would know what's best. Having driven through today, I noticed the Village of WF had a large amount of 3 & 4 story buildings, judging from the air conditioners and shades, occupied on floors. There were even more 2 1/2 story, probably balloon frame houses. Although neither have been updated recently, according to their websites, NHFD had 6 structure fire responses in 3 years. Two were mutual aid, and the remaining 4, they had pictures of three, all in ranch homes. Hughsonville had 41 listed in a 5 years span, with only 10 in their own jurisdiction.

The point I am trying to make is, WFFD had what looked to me as plenty of "need" for an immediate responding aerial. THe other 2, not so much. While I agree that an TL is a great tool at a strip-mall fire, of which the others had plenty of strip malls, there doesn't seem to be much of that going on in that area. A Fire Department has to evaluate their own area, and purchase what THEY need, not buy stuff just because they have the tax income and want to pad their numbers by doing more mutual aid.

I would think people hanging out the 3rd and 4th floor windows would be a need for a more immediate availabiltity than a storefront in a strip mall where you are going to set up for master stream only, to save more storefronts from a fire in a building designed to burn to the ground anyway.

Hope I make some sense, and it's only my opinion.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Newburgher

[tonyc856 16]

You left out that Wappingers also has a tall apartment complex and many medium size ones. We also have strip malls and the market place complex, near the river. Most of the buildings are balloon construction.We also have four large churches. Plus at least every other year we do a rescuse from some one who fell or jumped off the bridge by the falls.

The need for the ladder truck is there, and trust me, if it wasn't. the village would not allow us to go get one.

[Newburgher 241]

Nope, didn't leave it out, just didn't see it. As I said, I only drove through on my way to the malls. I saw the churches, and I knew the new one burned down when it was under construction a few years ago. Is Wappingers a Fire District, or a Munincipal Fire Dept.?

[tonyc856 16]

It's a Village. On the Apartments when you are on Route 9, By double O Grill you can see some of the apartments behind there. Just for a history fact, one of the Newburgh FD is our sister company, started by the same person who started or fire company.

[x129K 1,393]

It is worth discussing. Since they now have tower ladders on both sides of them maybe a 75 foot single rear axle quint would better serve their tight streets. Remember most fires are residential and most (85%) of civilian fire fatalities are in residential buildings. Maybe the smaller aerial might better suit their bread and butter fires and the towers could come in behind them for the larger and commercial structures. I think a 75' aerial (especially one where the waterway pins back) would be more versitale for the bread an butter private dwelling fire. Maybe they already had the discussion.

Yet the bid states "rear mount platform" aka a Ladder Tower.

I have never driven one - does the bucket pose a problem/hindrance on tight streets?

[tonyc856 16]

Rear mount will give us a shorter length, plus we will be able to "back" it in to be under wires.

[Fredd 0]

Wappingers can easily justify the need for a ladder based on their response area, building type, and life hazard, a series of multi story residential/commercial buildings on streets with a steep grade (East and West Main.). Seperately they have multistory apartment complex which has seen a number of fires.

[Riverside80 6]

Who won the bid?