FDNY Contemplates Purchase of Fire Helicopter(s)

[WAS967 97]

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/44087.htm

FDNY'S EYES ON THE SKIES

By SUE EDELMAN and SAM SMITH

The Fire Department is weighing the purchase of one or more military

helicopters to take firefighters into skies now patrolled only by the

NYPD.

The obstacles, insiders said, are the huge costs Ñ the price of a modified

Black Hawk ranges up to $28 million Ñ and the possibility of ratcheting up

an already ugly turf war between the police and fire departments.

"If we were going to get one right now, I don't think it will sit well,"

said a high-ranking FDNY source, referring to the ongoing feud over cops

being put in charge of all possible terrorist incidents.

"We are continually seeking new ways to improve our terrorism

preparedness," said department spokesman Frank Gribbon, who added that no

decision on choppers has been made.

The helicopter plan was pitched two weeks ago during a presentation shown

to FDNY brass, including Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta.

The proposal, produced by FDNY and EMS chiefs, says the department could

buy a helicopter for as little as $15 million to $20 million. It could be

used for everything from extinguishing and surveying fires to delivering

firefighters and paramedics to scenes and evacuating victims.

New York City, unlike Los Angeles, Chicago and San Diego, has no rescue

helicopters. NYPD choppers are too small for large-scale evacuations or

firefighting duties.

In the course of its investigation, the FDNY/EMS research team examined

Bell Helicopter and went to Stratford, Conn., to meet with industry giant

Sikorsky Aircraft, which manufactures the military-grade Black Hawk. A

Sikorsky spokesman said the company met with the FDNY twice.

The company's "Firehawk," a modified Black Hawk, is used by the Los

Angeles County Fire Department and is being considered by the FDNY.

The Firehawk can carry 11 crew members as well as a pilot and co-pilot and

can drop 1,000 gallons of water on a fire.

Los Angeles ended up spending nearly $28 million for a Firehawk after

bringing in the cost of training and spare parts.

The FDNY said it sees the cost as prohibitive but believes it could have a

chance at Homeland Security grants if the helicopters were bought for the

New York City metro area.

"Might it make sense to have a resource like this for New York, New

Jersey, Westchester? Yeah, it might," said a department source. "That

makes more sense to people here."

The 2002 McKinsey Report, which looked into ways the department could

improve its preparedness after 9/11, recommended the use of helicopters to

assess fires and conduct rescue operations.

For the past year, the FDNY has had access to NYPD helicopters, which take

chiefs into the air to monitor fires and send live surveillance feeds to

the Fire Department's headquarters.

[WAS967 97]

Interesting website about the Sikorsky S70-A Firehawk, a modified Blackhawk. Features pictures of the one used by LA County Fire. (Someone give x635 a towel).

http://www.s70a-firehawk.info/frameset.html

[Guest NYTruckie]

Interesting website about the Sikorsky S70-A Firehawk, a modified Blackhawk. Features pictures of the one used by LA County Fire. (Someone give x635 a towel).

http://www.s70a-firehawk.info/frameset.html

What did you do with yours after you used it?

[Truck4 48]

"New York City, unlike Los Angeles, Chicago and San Diego, has no rescue helicopters. NYPD choppers are too small for large-scale evacuations or firefighting duties."

Completely inaccurate. Nice reporting.

They should worry about the aging fireboat fleet first. They've been talking about the need to upgrade them for years.

[afd65 4]

yes i do think the aging marine fleet is very important to upgrade at this piont.

[tbendick 27]

As far as the boats. FDNY stated it had a grant to purcahse a new one. We will have to wait and see.

[WAS967 97]

So FDNY does have helicopters?

[Guest]

NO FDNY does not have a helicopter...we rely on the NYPD Aviation unit.

[WAS967 97]

So what is inaccurate about the report? The talk about the size of the NYPD choppers being too small for large evac and firefighting uses?

[27east 19]

if i am right, and please correct me if i am not, FDNY doctrine does not approve of the use of heliocopters for evacuations or firefighting, although i think the NYPD does have a few buckets

[tbendick 27]

FDNY SOP's does make alot of use of NYPD Aviation. Just recently they changed them around to be as follows.

Battatlion Chief reports to NYPD Aviaition HQ to become the Air Recon Chief at:

2nd Alarm Hi-Rise D/W/H

3rd Alarm D/W/H

10-60

There is also another portion of the SOP's which calls for a Hi-Rise Roof Team and Chief.

Ladder 2,7,21 and Ladder 6,10, 15 are trained to be dropped from a Helo onto the roof of a Hi-Rise Building. If you get a good Hi-Rise fire and they pull out all the stops the plans call for a use of 3 Helos.

1. Air Recon

2. Roof Chief (HRRC)

3. Roof Team (HRRT)

[WAS967 97]

Thanks for the info Tom. Are any of the air units able to act as water drops or in emergent EVAC? (Kind of a redundant question perhaps since I think they were doing just that on 9/11).

[tbendick 27]

When Water drops are called for.

Air Recon Chief. Always goes in one of the new Augusta Helo's

2nd Helo one of the larger ships will have the bucket attached to do the drops.

Also FDNY has SOPs to deal with Airlifts of patients. I know at least one if not both of the larger ships are NYS EMS medevac units. If you look at a photo you will see the star of life patch on the side.

[MGMedic 0]

I'm sure if FDNY really, really wants the choppers they will change a lot of their SOP/doctrines.

[Guest]

Here's some better pics of the UH60L Firehawk in use with LaCounty Fire...photo from code2high.com

[tbendick 27]

This is also another one looked at. notice that it can spray water to the side.

[Guest]

Damn....replace the white with yellow & white and you have an FDNY chopper!!!!! Although I think the money could be better spent elsewhere, they would be sweet!

[x648eng119 2]

Take all the money budgeted for the Westside stadium!! :-k

And this is coming from a Jets fan!!

[JBE 328]

Oh the fun we could have with those things.