Armonk Fire

[gamewell45 258]

Most Americans believe that they will never have a fire and the only reason they have insurance is because the bank requires it to get a morgage.

Insurance never makes you whole. You can't get back what was lost, including the 2-3 years you will be rebuilding (and fighting with the insurance company).

Also, most people are against sprinklers because they do not understand how they work. They think every head goes off with just a little smoke (thanks to hollywood) and that the water damage will be devistating.

Agreeably many people do believe that fire will never strike them; they roll the dice and take their chances. The well-to-do have more money and as such may be willing to roll the dice more often then the average person since they have the means to rebuild and start over again.

Education on sprinklers and how they work might help to allay of some fears that people may have regarding water damage, but no matter how much education you offer, there will be those who will skirt the edge and take their chances.

[dwcfireman 656]

Agreeably many people do believe that fire will never strike them

So true...But it can happen to anyone. Both my parents were firefighters, and our house caught fire at least 3 times (that I remember).

Education on sprinklers and how they work

We always do fire prevention programs for the kids...Why aren't we continuing this education for adults?

[Sailr322 88]

We always do fire prevention programs for the kids...Why aren't we continuing this education for adults?

Interesting idea, how would you go about it? A lot of programs I know are incorporated into schools and cub/girl scout programs. Not by any means bashing this idea, just wondering how you or others might go about continued fire education for adults. Maybe as part of a homeowners insurance program or agreement? Or maybe like some auto insurance companies do with defensive driving classes etc., a reduced home insurance rate for taking classes in fire safety or such?

[firebuff860 54]

You need to educate the politicians in order to effect any change about sprinkler laws, and they are as uneducated as the general public to their benefits. As Capt Nechis stated earlier most believe the Hollywood version of sprinklers. The bottom line is the building and construction lobby is a lot stronger than the fire (IAFF and FASNY) lobby is. Maybe these groups could partner with Insurance companies to show true benefits of residential sprinklers.

[dwcfireman 656]

Interesting idea, how would you go about it? A lot of programs I know are incorporated into schools and cub/girl scout programs. Not by any means bashing this idea, just wondering how you or others might go about continued fire education for adults. Maybe as part of a homeowners insurance program or agreement? Or maybe like some auto insurance companies do with defensive driving classes etc., a reduced home insurance rate for taking classes in fire safety or such?

This is quite an interesting question. Even though I brought it up, I don't even have the answer to this. I've done a lot of fire prevention in my career, but it's always been directed towards kids. Could the insurance companies do it? Preach the positives of having sprinkler systems in the home? Obviously, that would be too easy.

In the fire prevention programs and open houses that I've done in the past, we've tried to reach out to the adults, but the materials that are provided are all the BS pamphlets (kitchen safety, EDITH, smoke detector maintenance, etc.). Maybe we should be taking a more direct route to home safety, and teach adults what sprinklers can do to save your home (i.e. water damage from a sprinkler head versus losing your home). This topic has so many loose ends and open ideas, it's tough to decide where to start. I do recall NYSAFE (New York State Association of Fire & Life Ssafety Educators) did experiments as to how young you can teach children fire prevention and fire safety and how to do it....I know this because I was one of the "lab rats." Maybe it's time we take a step further to figure out how to do the same with adults with the knowledge we need to bestow upon them.

[x129K 1,393]

Thats not why i said it... I said who cares cause someone said "re-kindle" shouldnt be used. Its a word..... use it if you want.

Understood - my apologies Brother.

[dwcfireman 656]

Who cares...

I really love this statement, and your follow up is spot on! If you want to use the wiord, go for it, but make sure you know what it means....and make sure it's in the right context.

To anyone that thinks that a "re-kiindle" is due to a fire not being fully extinguished, please re-examine your basic science knowledge. A fire consists of four things: Fuel, an Oxidizer, a Heat Source, and the Event that makes fire. The hardest thing to remover is fuel, and 99% of the time that's what we leave. I say this because I have never seen a fire department remove a house from a fire. Now, if you remove the oxidizer and heat from the triangle, yeah, you've extinguished the fire....however, there is stiull the possiblility of a new event re-igniting the fire (hence, the fire tetrahedron). That's where the word "re-kindle" comes into effect. Like I said before, something as simple as a light breeze can re-ignite the fire. But, speaking more literally, we see "re-kindles" in fires that are (a) hard to extinguish and ( are surround-and-drowns. These types of fires aren't as dangerous as they seem, however, we pose a threat to the public as we respond back to them.

I myself am somewhat more aggressive...I feel that less damage is done by using enough water to confirm the fire has no threat of reignition, than the damage done by a rekindle. Don't pussyfoot around it....dump the tank and be confident!

Rekindles exist...but I will do everything in MY power to make sure they don't...on MY watch.

x129K, you hit it on the head, too. Re-kindles happen. As long as you're aggressive enmough on the fire, you won't have one. My experience with these types of fires is to handle them once. Put enough water on the first time, and it becomes the only time.

[Sailr322 88]

This is quite an interesting question. Even though I brought it up, I don't even have the answer to this. I've done a lot of fire prevention in my career, but it's always been directed towards kids. Could the insurance companies do it? Preach the positives of having sprinkler systems in the home? Obviously, that would be too easy.

In the fire prevention programs and open houses that I've done in the past, we've tried to reach out to the adults, but the materials that are provided are all the BS pamphlets (kitchen safety, EDITH, smoke detector maintenance, etc.). Maybe we should be taking a more direct route to home safety, and teach adults what sprinklers can do to save your home (i.e. water damage from a sprinkler head versus losing your home). This topic has so many loose ends and open ideas, it's tough to decide where to start. I do recall NYSAFE (New York State Association of Fire & Life Ssafety Educators) did experiments as to how young you can teach children fire prevention and fire safety and how to do it....I know this because I was one of the "lab rats." Maybe it's time we take a step further to figure out how to do the same with adults with the knowledge we need to bestow upon them.

I think it is something to look into. A few more thoughts that have come to me over the past few days sort of branching from what I first thought of. I know that with health insurance lately it has become common practice for providers to give breaks and incentives to those they cover when they belong to a gym or in some cases covering their gym fees since in theory it reduces health risks induced from a sedentary or unhealthy life style. Auto companies as I pointed out gave breaks to drivers that have a safe driving record or go for defensive driving classes. I know that a lot of insurance agencies give price breaks to MOS that have taken classes in CEVO or EVOC (something that I believe is mandatory in most departments for drivers). Maybe the cost of sprinklers could be covered in some way by the insurance company, similar to health insurance companies paying for gym memberships? A break if homeowners attend classes on fire safety or learn about the benefits of home sprinkler systems. I have heard, but am not sure if it is true, that people who live with a hydrant in front of their property or on it they get a reduction on their insurance, if this is true what about people living in areas such as Armonk that had dry hydrants on their property if possible, may a reduction for them too? Just some ideas that came to me.

[rayrider 94]

A hydrant within 1000 feet is what gives you a discount if any.

[R1SmokeEater 359]

NycNewsguy video:

[Avon Rob 40]

Most insurance companies will give a deduction for a properly installed fire sprinkler system. The state chief's used to have a demo trailer showing how fire sprinklers work, is it still available? Take it to school's for your fire prevention education. Have your town borad be part of the demo. Invite civic organizations to witness the events. BE PROACTIVE! Don't accept the town boards initial rejection.

As to living on a farm w/o hydrants, you can install a holding tank in the basement to feed the system. This will give you 10-15 minutes of water, enough to either control or extinguish the fire. Along with a smoke/fire detection system, gives you the best chance to save lives & property. What would you rather do, have a water damage or a total loss? That is how you must present your cause. That is how the insurance companies look at it.

Contact organizations such as the National Fire Sprinkler Association or Operation Life Safety for help. These guys have been at it a long time and can offer much help.

If I can be of any assistance, leave a post with a contact, I will reply.

[signal30 22]

Ever get the feeling some people here post things just to pound their chest and claim to be the most amazing "whatever" in history?

[Avon Rob 40]

And there are those who sit back & do nothing. They are content to sit back & critize anything new, or possible change.