Wassaic Front Mount CAFS Pumper

[markmets415 524]

After a few years and two votes, the CAFS pumper that has been proposed by the truck committee was passed by the registered voters of the Wassaic Fire District and was sent out for bid, bids came back on Tuesday May 29th, the district received one bid from Firematic (they built our B.R.A.T), the bid proposal is being reviewed by the committee and the Fire District will decide at the meeting on June 13th, fingers crossed, this has been a very long process!

[markmets415 524]

I am pleased to announce that the Wassaic Fire District at the monthly meeting of June 13, 2012 accepted the bid from Firematic Manufacturing for the new pumper.

A front mount 4x4 CAFS pumper to be built on Long Island by the same company that built our B.R.A.T, attached see the approved cads drawing of the unit, as with the B.R.A.T I shall post several pictures of the process as we proceed with unit.

To view drawing, open link, go to View, then rotate counterclockwise!

Wassaic FC NY 61212.pdf

Edited June 14, 2012 by markmets415

[ny10570 745]

Any idea why only 1 manufacturer bid?

[markmets415 524]

No idea why only one bid was submitted, 3 of the last 4 vehicles we have purchased we have only received one bid and the other there were two bids.

[markmets415 524]

The chassis was ordered on Monday June 18th, expected 90 day deliver for the chassis and it's looking like December/January delivery of the completed vehicle.

Edited June 22, 2012 by markmets415

[markmets415 524]

Chassis is headed to paint, let the construction begin.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Any idea why only 1 manufacturer bid?

Most times it is because the other vendors believe the spec was written for one manufacturer. It costs thousands for a manufacturer to bid on a new truc and if in reading the spec, it looks like the spec is designed for one brand, why should he waste his time and money.

This may not be an intentional thing, there are many hidden lines in every spec. i.e. we had a line that said "the windshield wiber motors would be housed in a curved bump out below the windshield". We changed it to "the windshield wiber motors would be housed in an accessable location" after a vendor pointed out the the curved bump out was American LaFrance code and it ment we did not want other bidders.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Its VERY common for manufacturers of all types of public safety equipment to do this. Turnout gear, body armor, trucks, etc. For a few extra bucks the company can make something completely irrelevant standard for their product line and hand a department a spec sheet that includes the irrelevant part. Make it a no-exceptions bid and you've basically got a guaranteed win. If you ask me its a little underhanded on the part of the business, I think the products should be compared apples to apples.

[markmets415 524]

Delivery is slated for early March

[Bnechis 3,961]

Its VERY common for manufacturers of all types of public safety equipment to do this. Turnout gear, body armor, trucks, etc. For a few extra bucks the company can make something completely irrelevant standard for their product line and hand a department a spec sheet that includes the irrelevant part. Make it a no-exceptions bid and you've basically got a guaranteed win. If you ask me its a little underhanded on the part of the business, I think the products should be compared apples to apples.

While it maybe underhanded on the part of the business, it is a major failure on the part of depts. to protect the taxpayers and in some cases it borders on bid rigging (which is a crime).

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Agreed, thought it is usually not intentional on the part of the agency, in my experience its because the agency doesn't realize and/or doesn't have anyone experienced enough to notice/fix it.

I'm not a lawyer, and I definitely didn't stay in a holiday inn express last night, but it would be difficult to prove bid rigging if the department had no knowledge that this is what was happening.

Unfortunately there isn't a training class out there (at least in my state) that I'm aware of that teaches us how to bid legally and ethically. I got a little of it in the Fire Science program at UNH, but without specific technical knowledge of the product it would be difficult to pull this kind of stuff out.

[Bnechis 3,961]

Agreed, thought it is usually not intentional on the part of the agency, in my experience its because the agency doesn't realize and/or doesn't have anyone experienced enough to notice/fix it.

I would somewhat agree, however I have sat on a number of apparatus committees and I have seen many that were very happy to let the dealer write it for them because; "we only want an XYZ firetruc:.

but it would be difficult to prove bid rigging if the department had no knowledge that this is what was happening.

Actually, in NYS the Comptroller puts out many documents that show both fire districts and municipal depts need to be vigilant in this area. Ignorance of the laws has never been a very good defence and the NYS Comptroller audits regularly find improper practices, that may not rise to the level of "bid rigging" but they are advised to change practices or face massive fines.

Unfortunately there isn't a training class out there (at least in my state) that I'm aware of that teaches us how to bid legally and ethically. I got a little of it in the Fire Science program at UNH, but without specific technical knowledge of the product it would be difficult to pull this kind of stuff out.

In NYS the only "Fire" class is a basic class for new fire commissioners as to there fiscal responsabilities, There are non FD classes for municiapal purchasing that our purchasing staff go to annuall. this is where most of that training comes from, but its not specific to the fire service (it does not need to be.)

[SageVigiles 1,194]

What I meant by "no knowledge that this was happening" was they don't have criminal intent in their actions. Fines are a different story, and I think that's a good motivation to make people do the right thing, I just wish we could teach people how to do it BEFORE it got to that point.

As far as the "we only want XYZ firetruck" thing, that pretty much speaks for itself. Totally defeats the purpose of having a bid in the first place. And since state contracts aren't really great for firetrucks (due to the usual level of customization, your savings would be minimal using that system) it doesn't really allow for an alternative procurement method.

[markmets415 524]

Chassis painted and the super single wheels installed

[JetPhoto 626]

They are some monster tires in the back

[IzzyEng4 427]

Is this unit replacing any other unit that is currently in service?

Don't hold me to this (not a member there) but I had though in another thread this was replacing the Dash pumper.

[x129K 1,393]

I BELIEVE the engine with a cracked, and financially irreplaceable tank.