More Fuel Efficient Police Cruisers

[Guest truck12345]

With fuel prices so high and municipal budgets to tight why cant the go to something more fuel efficent?

[Newburgher 241]

With fuel prices so high and municipal budgets to tight why cant the go to something more fuel efficent?

Like what, a Prius? What are they going to use that can still carry their gear, prisoners, pursue bad guys, and not give the officer clausterphobia?

[Pagers 197]

Because there is nothing hybrid or more fuel efficient out there that is designed to be a police vehicle. Yes the NYPD uses Altimas, Volts, Fusions, and Priuses but patrolling in NYC is more different then other places and they have the money to buy them. Not to mention all the support is needed for those vehicles like maintenance, where you're going to fuel it, etc. Stick with the police packages.

[Guest truck12345]

I dont think its much different in other urban area in NYS urban policing is urban policing u can only drive so fast.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

1. The charger gets better mpg than a crown victoria. 2. one can hardly call orange county or newburgh urban. 3. even if you want to call Newburgh urban, they are so outgunned and under staffed, their officers need to everywhere immediately.

edit: *need to be everywhere immediately.*

Maybe if they saved on gas at 4.00 per gal. they could save a job or 2 and get better guns.

Crown Vic, average mpg 7, Charger average mpg 17. 50,000 miles/10 mpg=5,000 gallons of gas. At an above average civilian rate $4.00/gallon, which is not even close to the municipal tax and levy free rate, 5,000gallons of gas X $4.00/gallon, you are still looking at $20,000 saving by not using the crown vic. If they have 5 chargers, they have saved themselves 100,000 annually. However, that is not nearly enough to hire even one additional officer considering benefits, allowance, salary, OT, comp. and pension...

You see it as losing money, when in reality it is saving money.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Altimas and Fusions are not police rated. NYPD has a lot of problems with the Altimas, they are way to small, to the point that a few holsters have been broken. Forget about putting any equipment in the back of an Altima, the battery takes up most of the trunk. Also very few of the NYPD cars have radios or computers mounted in them. When the NYPD first started getting the Impalas we had trouble fitting our required equipment into one of those

You have can have all the "better" guns you want, but you will still only be able to use them in a narrow set of circumstances.Just look at the news to see all the outrage when a police officer is involved in a justified shooting.

Edited May 15, 2012 by grumpyff

[grumpyff 1,159]

Here is a list of required equipment for NYPD Radio Motor Patrols (RMP)

• blanket
  
• Four (4) traffic cones
  
• crime scene tape
  
• fire extinguisher
  
• rope
  
• crayon (for marking crime scene)
  
• life jacket and/or life ring (sectors having or bordering water)
  
• box of disposable gloves
  
• waterproof body covers
  
• defibrillator
  

Vehicles assigned to the Patrol Supervisor will carry the above plus

• detail roster
  
• reflective tape
  
• water cannon (water can)
  
• shepard's crook
  
• 4 foot polycarbonate shield
  
• come along
  
• sledge hammer
  
• bolt cutters (mostly in transit due to OWS)
  

This list may not be totally up to date. My copy of the patrol guide at home is not current. At work it is computerized. All that plus a spare tire, jack and lug wrench, flares, emergency exit key (for transit RMPs), and spare fluids for the car as needed. Officers assigned to the RMPS are required to bring their helmet, baton, and COBRA bag ( a large duffle bag with MSA Milleniium mask, tyvek suit, respirators, gloves, boots, chemical tape, first aid kit. In reality a lot of the equipment is not carried.All this plus have room to transport other officers and prisoners as needed

[Newburgher 241]

I dont think its much different in other urban area in NYS urban policing is urban policing u can only drive so fast.

Maybe if they saved on gas at 4.00 per gal. they could save a job or 2 and get better guns.

Maybe you should take the test to be the next police chief......you seem to know what's best for this city

[helicopper 1,050]

With fuel prices so high and municipal budgets to tight why cant the go to something more fuel efficent?

I dont think its much different in other urban area in NYS urban policing is urban policing u can only drive so fast.

Maybe if they saved on gas at 4.00 per gal. they could save a job or 2 and get better guns.

Have you ever spent eight hours, five days a week in a police car? Given all that has to be packed into a police car and the demanding operations they face, there aren't a whole lot of options. And, since these are a cop's "office" for eight hours a day, shouldn't they have at least a little bit of comfort? Granted that in today's police packages and with all the equipment jammed in them there isn't room for the cop anymore but I can't imagine how it would be in a smaller vehicle.

Municipalities don't pay $4.00 a gallon. They buy in bulk and don't pay taxes so the price is far less than that. Also, most budgets are constructed so that equipment/supplies (fuel) and personnel are different sections of the budget so you can't just say we're spending less on fuel and hiring more cops.

[Guest truck12345]

I think they should at all angles to trim budgets in stead of layoffs even if it means smaller more fuel efficiant cars.

[helicopper 1,050]

I think they should at all angles to trim budgets in stead of layoffs even if it means smaller more fuel efficiant cars.

So what should they do without?

- Space to transport prisoners

- Cages

- Computers

- O2 and First Aid Kits

- LPR's

- Radio Consoles and Emergency Switch sets

- Shotgun

- Patrol Rifle

- Partner

You still don't seem to get that there is little relationship between the vehicles operated and the ability to hire (or maintain) personnel.

[Newburgher 241]

NYC is NYC. It isn't Newburgh, or any of the other small violent cities up here, with limited manpower and resources. I think the people who work for and make decisions for these departments have researched, and decided what works best. Without knowing where you work, or what you do for a living, I would still bet they know what works better than you do. Maybe my fire department could get by with a couple mini-vans and step ladders and portable pumps. That would be alot cheaper and get better mileage than our aerials and pumpers, but would they work as well? Sometimes efficiency and safety outweigh fuel economy. While I don't know much about the way the PD operates, I trust that they are making the right decisions when it comes to spending money to keep their officers and the rest of us safe in this city.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Yes the NYPD has Ford Fusions and Nissan Altimas. They both suck. Plain and simple they are too small. take a look at the list I posted of required equipment. The only way to get a computer in the Altima, is to cover the center stack (A/C heating controls, the stereo, etc. Open the computer mount, and you hit the front passenger in the knee with it. We have had a few ripped pants already, which comes out of our pockets. We are scared to see what happens when one of these things gets into an accident and the air bag deploys. The way it is set up, the big fear is the airbag will propel the light control switch box and computer mount into the front seat passenger. It feels like you are sitting on the floor. Getting the key into the ignition is next to impossible. The Fusion is a bit better, but we are constantly going thru tires. (They do not like the potholes.) I have yet to see a Fusion with a computer. Neither car has a cage, which is a huge pain in the a**, because now you must sit in the rear with the prisoner, seated directly behind the driver. So if your partner is tall, there is no room in the back. No way in hell you are going to put a prisoner behind the driver, unless you are looking to get injured or killed. Also forget about transporting more than one prisoner. With the Impala or the Crown Vic you can squeeze 3 prisoners in the back if needed. Yes, I have arrested 3 people in one shot, and no the prisoner transport vans (paddy wagons) are not always available, especially working a midnight. Both Fusions and Altimas have had other problems such as wiring lights and sirens in. our Mechanics have had trouble with some of them. The Fusion assigned to my command went almost 4 months with no gauges since the dash board is all LCD screen, so there was no knowing how much gas was in the car. The Altima still has the lights and siren shut off at times, an no one knows why. Both the Fusion and Altimas are hybrids, and as such will give you an estimated Miles Per Gallon. I think the average is only about 10 MPG, the last time I checked. The hybrid also costs about $1500 more than the Imapla according to this article http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/05/nypd-introduces-nissan-altima-hybrid.html > I have yet to see one get 35 MPG. I am a car almost 5 nights a week and I prefer taking a Van or an Impala over one of Bloomberg's green product demonstrations because the are not suited to our needs. Getting into and out of the car is a chore. I am only 5' 8" and I feel cramped in either hybrid. One of the guys I work with is 6'5", he does not fit into either, unless the seat is all the way back, and tilted to the point that no one can sit behind him. Nobody in my command likes the Altima, so often the LT or SGT get stuck with it since it is not good at transports. Also the Altima has no power outlets, so charging a phone is out of the question.. The Fusion has two outlets, but one is in the back. Also both ride low to the ground, so if you do a car stop, you have trouble seeing into SUVs, vans, etc. Take the hybrids and give them to non patrol functions like School saftey, traffic, auxillary. they have no place in real Police work.

[SOUSGT 357]

So what should they do without?

- Space to transport prisoners

- Cages

- Computers

- O2 and First Aid Kits

- LPR's

- Radio Consoles and Emergency Switch sets

- Shotgun

- Patrol Rifle

- Partner

You still don't seem to get that there is little relationship between the vehicles operated and the ability to hire (or maintain) personnel.

In the 80's my department tried switching from an 8cyl to a 6 cyl to save fuel. The cars did not hold up. They normally kept a vehicle for two years. The first year the vehicle was assigned to patrol and the second it kept as a spare or used by spare personel when they were on the roster. But they wound up replacing the 6cyl vehicles after the first year.

One has to remember that many police cars run 24/7. The only time the engine was turned off was when the vehicle was in for service, you were out of the car on a detail or in court. If you look at the current police rated vehicles, most have heavy duty everything, aircraft type hoses and a supersized alternator. These improvements all add weight to the vehicle.

[INIT915 1,119]

I think they should at all angles to trim budgets in stead of layoffs even if it means smaller more fuel efficiant cars.

Well, lucky for us, those in charge of purchasing vehicles have both common sense and experience and by those virtues, generally do a good job at making intelligent decisions.

I mean, given your logic, rural agencies should be purchasing Vespa's, no?

http://www.vespausa.com/scooters.html#!s=home/lx-50-4v <--- This one gets 90 mpg! That's fantastic! Right? I mean sure, you can't carry ANY equipment, but what does that matter, it gets 90 MPG!!!! That's all that really matters!

[ny10570 745]

I think they should at all angles to trim budgets in stead of layoffs even if it means smaller more fuel efficiant cars.

Did you read up on the industry before starting this thread or is this just a random train of thought that inspired you to log onto here? I only ask because depts across the country have been looking at how to reduce fleet costs. One of the big selling points of the new Ford police packages is the fuel efficiency gains without power loss thanks to the turbo charged 6 cylinder engines. Several big depts tried hybrids as part of patrol fleets and many depts of all sizes uses hybrids in non-patrol functions. At some point however savings in one category result in costs in another. The fuel savings of an all hybrid police fleet does not make up for the costs of operating an all hybrid police fleet.

Edited May 16, 2012 by ny10570

[grumpyff 1,159]

I had the misfortune of have to drive the Altima at work recently. Here are two photos I took with my cell phone

First up is the trunk. As you can see, the spare tire fills most of the space. The black box in the lower front right of the picture is an AED. This car does not have a police radio mounted in it, if it did there is not much room to mount it. The rear vertical of the trunk (back of rear passenger seat contains the battery.

Next photo I took from the backseat looking forward. The computer mount covers important controls in the car (there is no computer to mount to it, so it is useless). Our RMP coordinator asked about having it removed, the shops told him,

"if you can figure out how to do it without damaging the car, go ahead". Very tight with two people in there. Above the computer mount is the light/siren control to the left, and the control box for the blue LED message board mounted on the rear of the light bar. Hate to see where those are going top land if the airbags ever deploy.

Edited July 16, 2012 by grumpyff

[ny10570 745]

Never understood why you guys carry full spares. Getting flats has got to be rare enough and keep you out of service long enough that it'd be cheaper to handle with a roving repair unit or back at the precinct.

[grumpyff 1,159]

Usually we find a tire repair shop that will throw the spare on for us. We do have a roadside repair unit, but everything has to be scheduled in our computer system, and it can take days until they get there. Once had to argue with a sergeant there because I asked over the phone for headlights ( all I needed was the bulbs, I would have put them in myself). he told me to have our RMP coordinator schedule it. I told him, i have been asking for 3 days and keep getting told its scheduled and was getting tired of driving cars on the midnights with no headlights.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

You have to consider that the people that Law Enforcement frequently have to chase down are driving vehicles with a lot of horse power. Criminals don't necessarily care about fuel mileage. Consider the new Chevy Camaros, Dodge Challengers, Vipers and Corvettes for starters.

Back in '83-'86 when I worked in the Eastchester PD shop, we had Plymouth Gran(d) Furys, and the '80's version of Chevy Caprice. Space was not an issue for the officers. And the cars certainly had the horsepower.

Today, the Police Package Chevy Tahoe that I've seen many State Troopers on the Interstates up and down the East Coast using, seems to be THE premo vehicle for LE use. Space certainly isn't an issue. It's got the horsepower, and the safety factor for a Tahoe has got to be pretty high. Remember when John Corzine's Chevy Suburban crashed in Jersey? If he had been wearing his seatbelt, he probably wouldn't have been injured, and they were haulin' when they crashed.

These new Impalas; front wheel drive, six cylinder....NOt appropriate for RMP work in my "used to work in the shop" opinion. the Chargers? Look cool as heck, but I can't imagine they have enough room inside. The Crown Vic? Probably the best car Ford ever built for police, except for that "slight" defect of the bolt-gas tank that ended up having some very tragic results.

I understand what the OP was thinking; you know, how can municipalities save money without hurting the work force. But smaller, less powerful cars cannot be the answer, unless they require all criminals to drive Vespas, Prius's and such! lol

Stay safe our Brothers/Sisters on The Thin Blue Line. And thanks for all the informative posts, grumpy, INIT, et al.

Edited July 16, 2012 by efdcapt115

[barbosa10 7]

I dont know about you guys but id like the sound, comfort, and reliability of a 5.7L HEMI V 8 monster under my hood. Not to mention the decent Fuel economy 15 MPG city, 23 MPG highway.

[mfc2257 464]

I dont know about you guys but id like the sound, comfort, and reliability of a 5.7L HEMI V 8 monster under my hood. Not to mention the decent Fuel economy 15 MPG city, 23 MPG highway.

you're assuming that the car would be spec'd with a Hemi and not a V6

[25truck26 29]

Grumpy i love how you listed everything we should have in the RMP trunk. I am still searching the trunk for half of the items on the list. But honestly Grumpy hit the nail on the head in regards to the NYPD. All of the RMPs suck. my partner and I can barely ever fit our bags in the trunk. 4 bags + AED plus spare tire...good luck Impalas suck 2 years old and 3 of ours have no AC. Or doors don't lock- gangs love that. Crown Vic is/was my favorite. I hear the old Chevy Caprice was the best. plenty of room and was a tank!

[RWC130 594]

Problem Solved!

lol

Edited July 17, 2012 by RWC130

[ny10570 745]

Problem Solved!

lol

Transit already has 'em

http://communitym.com/article_images/police%20at%20subway%20stop.jpg

[grumpyff 1,159]

Transit already has 'em

http://communitym.co...subway stop.jpg

Times Square Complex (42st/7Ave to 42 st/8 Ave), Union Square, 59st/Columbus Circle to name a few. I was in the test program for the two wheel Segway, and a lot of what you see on the three wheel scooter came out of our critiques

[JetPhoto 626]

This is your new RMP, like it or not!

LOL

[SOUSGT 357]

The light bar is almost as big as the vehicle and would probably reduce any savings in fuel economy as it would create more drag and cause the engine to work twice as hard.

Edited July 17, 2012 by SOUSGT

[SOUSGT 357]

Another shot of waht may be comming as we may see this trend in command vehicles making its way onto this side of the pond

[Sailr322 88]

Another shot of waht may be comming as we may see this trend in command vehicles making its way onto this side of the pond

Haha, maybe over in Europe. I am laughing at the idea of someone in their Suburban or Excursion (those that still have them) or any of the large size SUVs and trucks on the road here stopping for this. Or better yet, watching a half dozen or more of them in a "high speed" pursuit of a stolen vehicle, that would make the highlight of my day.